Floating Tempo on a Wave file

[Hieu Nguyen]

Hello, I'm trying to build a tempo structure on an existing wave file song. As it's live, the tempo is slightly variable. So I start to put a mark on the first measure 1 and then a mark on the last measure, let's say measure 101 at 3:30:000. Then I try to identify the measure 50 (middle of the song) to reset the tempo on time.

Unfortunately, when I insert a new time mark at the middle of the song, the mark on the right is shifted. I expect it to be unchanged at 3:30:000. How can I insert an absolute time marker (measure 101 at 3:30:000) that never moves, even when a new time marker is inserted?

Thank you in advance for your help.

[torhan]

If I understand you correctly, I think if you open the Track Properties window, you can set the Lock -> Position/Data.

Edited May 6, 2021 by torhan

[John Vere]

There are lots of good tutorials on using Audio snap. Mike of Creative Sauce has a real good one. 

Did you try dragging one of the drum tracks like the hi hat to the time line. This is a Melodyn feature that works when it works. I found hi hat the best. 

[sreams]

7 minutes ago, John Vere said:

There are lots of good tutorials on using Audio snap. Mike of Creative Sauce has a real good one. 

Did you try dragging one of the drum tracks like the hi hat to the time line. This is a Melodyn feature that works when it works. I found hi hat the best. 

I don't think he is looking to alter the audio at all. Looks more like he wants to create a tempo map that matches the existing audio.

"Fit Improvisation" in the Process menu is what you'd want if that is your goal. Create a MIDI track, use a MIDI controller to tap out the tempo as you listen to the audio. Then use "Fit Improvisation" and the Tempo Map will be created matching your input. *Way* easier than doing it all by hand.

Edited May 6, 2021 by sreams

[John Vere]

That exactly what I was referring to You create a tempo map by dragging audio to the timeline or you use audio snap and spend all day moving marks around 

[Hieu Nguyen]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:53 PM, sreams said:

I don't think he is looking to alter the audio at all. Looks more like he wants to create a tempo map that matches the existing audio.

"Fit Improvisation" in the Process menu is what you'd want if that is your goal. Create a MIDI track, use a MIDI controller to tap out the tempo as you listen to the audio. Then use "Fit Improvisation" and the Tempo Map will be created matching your input. *Way* easier than doing it all by hand.

Yes, creating a tempo map that matches an existing audio is exactly what I wanted to do. I'm going to try your solution but I'm wondering why it is so complicated: in Pro Tools First, you just have to identify the first measure, the last measure, the middle measure, the middle of the middle, etc. and you are done after 3 to 5 identifications.

And regarding audio snap, I just don't understand how it works, even after having learned hours and hours from tutos on youtube.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Hieu Nguyen

[Base 57]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:37 AM, Hieu Nguyen said:

Unfortunately, when I insert a new time mark at the middle of the song, the mark on the right is shifted. I expect it to be unchanged at 3:30:000.

If I am reading your OP correctly you are using "Set Measure /Beat at Now" to make your tempo map. In Cakewalk you cannot use that tool to work backwards. Any tempo change you make in the middle of a project is going to move measure lines downstream.

"Set Measure Beat at Now" is very accurate if you patiently work from the start to the end. "Fit Improvisation" can be  quicker but be sure to line your midi notes up accurately first. "Audio Snap" is too fiddly. Use that to line audio clips up with a grid; not to line the grid up to the audio.

[Hieu Nguyen]

1 hour ago, Base 57 said:

In Cakewalk you cannot use that tool to work backwards. Any tempo change you make in the middle of a project is going to move measure lines downstream.

I know, but it's easy to add an option that recalculates the new tempo at the maker you're are inserting in order to keep the next marker unchanged. 

[Hieu Nguyen]

I have just tested the midi track: it's just impossible to play when you don't have a Midi keyboard as there is so much lag.

[Base 57]

I have been experimenting with this. 

4 hours ago, Base 57 said:

In Cakewalk you cannot use that tool to work backwards.

I was wrong. I got used to doing this my own way for years and maybe this has to do with the new Tempo Track but for me, Set Measure/Beat at Now is working as you expect it to.

 

2 hours ago, Hieu Nguyen said:

recalculates the new tempo at the maker you're are inserting in order to keep the next marker unchanged.

I'm using version 2021.04 build 147.

I put exactly three minutes of pink noise in a track in an otherwise empty project. Then I set Measure 100 at the 3 minute mark. Then I randomly set measures in between 1 and 100 at different places. No matter how many changes I put in measure 100 remained at the 3 minute mark.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Base 57

[John Vere]

4 hours ago, Hieu Nguyen said:

Yes, creating a tempo map that matches an existing audio is exactly what I wanted to do. I'm going to try your solution but I'm wondering why it is so complicated: in Pro Tools First, you just have to identify the first measure, the last measure, the middle measure, the middle of the middle, etc. and you are done after 3 to 5 identifications.

And regarding audio snap, I just don't understand how it works, even after having learned hours and hours from tutos on youtube.

So did you try the drag to the timeline? I've gotten this to work perfectly a few times now. It really depends on the audio track. I think anything with a steady beat and lots of transients will work. And did you watch Mikes Video. He' explains the audio snap method step by step. 

[sreams]

14 hours ago, Hieu Nguyen said:

Yes, creating a tempo map that matches an existing audio is exactly what I wanted to do. I'm going to try your solution but I'm wondering why it is so complicated: in Pro Tools First, you just have to identify the first measure, the last measure, the middle measure, the middle of the middle, etc. and you are done after 3 to 5 identifications.

And regarding audio snap, I just don't understand how it works, even after having learned hours and hours from tutos on youtube.

It's not complicated at all. One pass and you are done. I guess I could see it not going so smoothly for those who have no MIDI input device.  You mentioned lag. What is your ASIO latency in Preferences? Did you try using a smaller buffer size?