Export problem/question

[Jerry Freese]

OK so I am doing this:

Go to File > Export > Audio.

Select the location where you would like this file to save.

Add a file name, and choose a file type from the menu below.

Make sure the source category is set to Entire Mix, or you can choose any of a host of parameters to reflect your needs.

Click Export, and check the selected location for your final product when exporting is complete.

The guitars were louder than my mix, so to test I exported the same song again but with all the guitar sliders pulled all the way down. The export still had the guitars in there at the same volume!  From what I have read, I may need to make sure track,clip and Master automation is checked? I'm not sure if it is (not home now) but I may not have checked those as there is no automation in the track unless the slider position automatically stores as automation. I guessed that "entire mix" would mean my mix not just tracks ignoring slider positions.

When I went to the export module and selected the preset "what you hear" the sliders  when pulled down worked as expected. Is this a typical way people would mix down their track?

[57Gregy]

What I (and some others) do is Bounce all the tracks down to a single track in the same project, listen if it's okay, and then export that 1 track.
Make sure the Bounced track isn't being routed to a bus that has effects in it when you listen to it and export it, of course.

Can you post a pic of your Export settings?

[Jerry Freese]

No, I'm not home right now. For years I have been exporting like this right to a wav or MP3 without issues. I'm guessing I have some settings wrong that make it ignore slider positions now. I'm going to look at the preset"what you hear" and see what is different than my export settings now.

[scook]

One cause of unexpected levels on export is not using a master bus.

Make sure all the audio ultimately goes through one bus.

 

AFAIK, all the project templates provided in CbB have a master bus set up.

 

If you start projects without using one of the supplied templates create a master bus before adding any tracks to the project.

This is done by adding a bus, right-clicking on the bus header and selecting "Set as Default Bus"

The same may be done to existing project.

Then select all the audio and instrument tracks, hold down the CTRL key and select the master bus in a the track output. This will set all the tracks to the master. If track outputs are set to a bus, leave them. The bus will get routed in the next step.

Route any other bus outputs to the master bus.

[Jerry Freese]

21 minutes ago, scook said:

One cause of unexpected levels on export is not using a master bus.

Make sure all the audio ultimately goes through one bus.

 

AFAIK, all the project templates provided in CbB have a master bus set up.

 

If you start projects without using one of the supplied templates create a master bus before adding any tracks to the project.

This is done by adding a bus, right-clicking on the bus header and selecting "Set as Default Bus"

The same may be done to existing project.

Then select all the audio and instrument tracks, hold down the CTRL key and select the master bus in a the track output. This will set all the tracks to the master. If track outputs are set to a bus, leave them. The bus will get routed in the next step.

Route any other bus outputs to the master bus.

Yes I have a master bus.

[scook]

When everything is going through the master bus, there should be no difference between exporting the "Master Bus" and "Entire Mix" 

And if the "Mix Enables" on the export dialog are all selected (except for mutually exclusive options Fast/Audible Bounce and 64bit Engine) the levels should not need to be adjusted any differently than playing the project.

[Jerry Freese]

19 minutes ago, scook said:

When everything is going through the master bus, there should be no difference between exporting the "Master Bus" and "Entire Mix" 

And if the "Mix Enables" on the export dialog are all selected (except for mutually exclusive options Fast/Audible Bounce and 64bit Engine) the levels should not need to be adjusted any differently than playing the project.

Ultimately I am trying to figure out why the three guitar tracks that had the slider all the way down (with no sends) Still were in the exported mix. It seems the slider positions were ignored. Could it be the automation checkboxes weren't checked or does that not matter if there is no automation? As I said, if I select "what you hear" it exports the mix as I expected.   I saw this:

Track Automation. If you don’t check this option, any volume and pan automation, including initial volume and pan settings, is ignored when creating the new file(s). The amplitude of the raw data in the tracks is used, and the pan is C, or centered.

Clip Automation. If you don’t check this option, any clip automation, including any trim settings, is ignored when creating the new file(s).

I'm guessing I don't have those boxes checked. I'll check the project when I get home.  Wondering, what does it mean here by "trim settings"? Trimmed clips or gain type trimming/other?

I didn't think I had to have track automation checkbox checked as I didn't knowingly record any automation on the sliders. But if slider position is part of automation data it makes sense that the positions were ignored.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Jerry Freese

[Noel Borthwick]

1 minute ago, Jerry Freese said:

Ultimately I am trying to figure out why the three guitar tracks that had the slider all the way down (with no sends) Still were in the exported mix. It seems the slider positions were ignored. Could it be the automation checkboxes weren't checked or does that not matter if there is no automation? As I said, if I select "what you hear" it exports the mix as I expected.   I saw this:

Track Automation. If you don’t check this option, any volume and pan automation, including initial volume and pan settings, is ignored when creating the new file(s). The amplitude of the raw data in the tracks is used, and the pan is C, or centered.

Clip Automation. If you don’t check this option, any clip automation, including any trim settings, is ignored when creating the new file(s).

I'm guessing I don't have those boxes checked. I'll check the project when I get home.  Wondering, what does it mean here by "trim settings"? Trimmed clips or gain type trimming/other?

 

I think the text is a bit redundant. Its referring specifically to clip gain envelopes being ignored. Clip fades will still get rendered.
Edit: I believe what it may have been trying to say is that the tracks input gain setting will be ignored. Input gain is applied at the clip level and is combined with clip gain envelopes. Its a bit confusing but thats what it does.

[Jerry Freese]

7 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I think the text is a bit redundant. Its referring specifically to clip gain envelopes being ignored. Clip fades will still get rendered.

Thanks for clearing that up. I assumed that but "trim setting" could mean gain (like a trim control) or a trimmed clip. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Jerry Freese

[Jerry Freese]

So now I wonder is slider position recorded as automation by default even if I did not specifically record slider automation? If so, that's why my sliders were likely ignored, as without automation box checked, the initial settings were ignored and thus defaulted to raw tracks.

[Noel Borthwick]

No its not recorded as automation but the static gainstages are treated in the same way that automation is. i,e. there is no option to export without automation envelopes but with the static track gain. So if you uncheck the track automation checkbox then the track will be exported at unity gain and no pan.  

Sorry if its confusing. Perhaps the text for those checkboxes need to be reworded somehow.

[Jerry Freese]

19 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

No its not recorded as automation but the static gainstages are treated in the same way that automation is. i,e. there is no option to export without automation envelopes but with the static track gain. So if you uncheck the track automation checkbox then the track will be exported at unity gain and no pan.  

Sorry if its confusing. Perhaps the text for those checkboxes need to be reworded somehow.

So that being said would you confirm that if I didn't have the automation checkbox checked, that would cause the fader position to be ignored?

[Noel Borthwick]

Yes

[Jerry Freese]

Thank you for confirming, I'll bet I didn't check the box because I wasn't using automation (or so I thought) I'll find out when I get home. As I wrote, I didn't think at first I needed that check box to mix down a static slider position.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Jerry Freese

[Jerry Freese]

I found that the automation checkbox was unchecked. That was the cause. I have "mixed down" several clips that way and they came out acceptable only because I try to keep my raw tracks as consistent as possible. When I heard that slider movement wasn't affecting anything I started investigating and found that slider positions were being ignored, and had me initially confused as why and wondered how long my default mixdown parameters were that way..  Actually the answer was right there in the manual, it just took me a bit to digest it and the terminology. I realize I could have just checked the box and tried again but I was away from home and figuring things out "on paper" instead of just trying things helps me understand the big picture and flow of software. Thank You!