YAMAHA PSR 730 - M-AUDIO UNO midi/usb converter

[nico_bounde]

Hi, I have an old YAMAHA PSR 730  keyboard that I am trying to connect to cakewalk via a M-AUDIO UNO MIDI USB converter.

I first tried the usual connection Keyboard OUT PORT to IN PORT of my converter and Keyboard IN PORT to OUT PORT of my converter.  I didn't manage to control cakewalk in that way. So, I tried the opposite. In that way, Cakewalk seems working.  I mean that Cakewalk can receive only one note in the mean time, even If I press several notes on my keyboard. And CW can receive around 1 note all the 2 s.

 My questions are the following :

-do you believe the opposite connection of the usual one is really the good one ? Or is it a kind parasite which make CW receive a note? 

-do you think/do you know if I have to use a specific configuration inside my keyboard ? I already disabled the "local" operation of my keyboard?

I went through a lot of forums and  I don't know how to do to use my old external keyboard as a midi controller for CW.

Thank you very much for the time you could spend for helping me.

[John Vere]

The first way you had it connected was correct. Out to in, For now while troubleshooting do not bother with the other connection. That would only be used if your using the sounds in the keyboard. As a controller to trigger VST instruments you only need the out.

Make sure your have installed the drivers for the M audio midi convertor.

In Cakewalk Preferences/Midi/devices make sure the M Audio box is checked as an input device. 

In the Midi track you arm for recording select the M audio as the input OMNI. 

Make sure input echo is highlighted in the midi track. 

Set the output of the midi track to the VST instrument you wish too use. 

If the VST instrument has a GUI with the ability to pre view the sounds, like a Piano, make sure that is working to test. 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by John Vere

[reginaldStjohn]

I would expect that you would hook up your keyboard like you had it at first

Keyboard out -> Uno In

Keyboard in <-= Uno Out

However, You don't really need the Keyboard in unless you are trying to trigger sounds on your keyboard. If all your trying to do use your keyboard to record midi in Cakewalk then that is not necessary.

You did not mention any other steps that you followed. Did you install a driver for the Uno or make sure that it showed up in your OS? Did you setup Cakewalk to see the UNO and verify that midi data was seen?  

Check pp 64 of the Reference Guide for a step by step instructions on setting up MIDI in Cakewalk

[nico_bounde]

The last information that I have are the following ones:

I have connected as below (the opposite way than usual and it seems working well ?)

Keyboard out with Uno Out

Keyboard in with Uno In

That way, I have the following results:

* When playing on CW on a midi track with the CW virtual controller, I manage to control and play on my external yamaha keyboard with no problem at all (even the MIDI OUT led is lighting in that case)

* I have double checked the driver installation --> it is ok

I still have issues while playing several notes on my yamaha keyboard aiming to control VST onCW.

 

Does that help to solve ?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

[nico_bounde]

In addition, the VST that I am trying to control with my Yamaha keyboard is working well while pressing the CW virtual controller or the VST itself.

[John Vere]

You need to set this up properly, 

6 hours ago, nico_bounde said:

The last information that I have are the following ones:

I have connected as below (the opposite way than usual and it seems working well ?)   

No it isn't working properly.  If it was working properly your Keyboard would play the sound from the VST instrument. 

Keyboard out with Uno Out 

Keyboard in with Uno In  

There is not a midi user on this planet that would advise this, it is wrong. Change it back to the way it was designed to be used.  

That way, I have the following results:

* When playing on CW on a midi track with the CW virtual controller,

You have a controller use that , the virtual controller is only used when you Don't have a controller. 

I manage to control and play on my external yamaha keyboard with no problem at all (even the MIDI OUT led is lighting in that case) 

* I have double checked the driver installation --> it is ok  

Did you also check in Preferences that the M audio is a midi device? 

I still have issues while playing several notes on my yamaha keyboard aiming to control VST onCW.

Did you do as I said above and set the input and activate the input echo, Did you do any of my list? This is how we all do this. Millions of users. 

Does that help to solve ?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

[57Gregy]

In the old days when using a Yamaha keyboard with MIDI connectors, it was said that you must use a Yamaha MIDI-to-USB cable. There were many posts on the old forums about folks trying to do what you're doing and failing.
If your keyboard is old, you may want to see if you can get a Yamaha cable and try that.
Could be an old wives tale, though. I always used an audio interface that had MIDI ports, so I never had that problem with my Yamaha keyboards. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by 57Gregy
oops.

[slartabartfast]

I have no explanation for the odd in/out connection with the MIDItoUSB device.

A single note playing when multiple keys are pressed suggests that the keyboard (or the synth it is actuating) are in portamento mode.

[nico_bounde]

16 hours ago, John Vere said:

You need to set this up properly, 

 

Yes, I fully agree that it doesn't work properly.

I've already tried a lot of things with the right connection and I've already checked the preferences that I have well the M-audio device.

Also before trying to record, I've simply tried to activate the GUI of the VST instrument with my ext. keyboard.

And finally, the best results that I can have are with the un-adviced connection...

I am fully lost and I am finally afraid that my ext. keyboard are not "compatible" with CW by using this kind of connection.

[nico_bounde]

5 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

In the old days when using a Yamaha keyboard with MIDI connectors, it was said that you must use a Yamaha MIDI-to-USB cable. There were many posts on the old forums about folks trying to do what you're doing and failing.
If your keyboard is old, you may want to see if you can get a Yamaha cable and try that.
Could be an old wives tale, though. I always used an audio interface that had MIDI ports, so I never had that problem with my Yamaha keyboards. 

Do you beliveve that using an audio interface will work at 100%.  

I started being convinced that using the M-AUDIO midi/usb converter has no chance to work.

So, I am just wondering what is the best choice:

- buying this kind of audio interface to carry on trying to connect my ext. yamaha keyboard to CW

-buying a right MPC keyboard, that I connect directly connect to my computer via an USB cable

What solution do you believe is the best?

 

[nico_bounde]

33 minutes ago, slartabartfast said:

I have no explanation for the odd in/out connection with the MIDItoUSB device.

A single note playing when multiple keys are pressed suggests that the keyboard (or the synth it is actuating) are in portamento mode.

this is exactly what I believe.  I explain.

When I use the un-adviced connection, I manage to play the sound of my external keyboard when I use the Virtual computer of CW. In that case, the MIDI-OUT LED is lightning only when a note is transmitted from my computer to my ext. keyboard.

In the opposite, when I am trying to play a CW VST instrument, the MIDI-IN LED is always switched on, even if I don't play any note on my external keybaord. I think that the CW buffer is always full and sometimes, it manage to play a note with a kind of lag....

I've already played with all of the setup of my external yamaha keyboard, but couldn't solve yet....

[slartabartfast]

8 minutes ago, nico_bounde said:

I started being convinced that using the M-AUDIO midi/usb converter has no chance to work.

Before you spend money on a relatively expensive interface, you should test the converter to be sure it is passing MIDI messages as intended, and is not some weird interaction with Cakewalk or Cakewalk setup issue. Download the free MidiOx and see what the Uno is sending to the computer using another application. 

[nico_bounde]

4 minutes ago, slartabartfast said:

Before you spend money on a relatively expensive interface, you should test the converter to be sure it is passing MIDI messages as intended, and is not some weird interaction with Cakewalk or Cakewalk setup issue. Download the free MidiOx and see what the Uno is sending to the computer using another application. 

thank you. but I can't find this driver for WINDOWS 10. Do you think the last update works?

[slartabartfast]

MIDIOx is a freestanding application, not a driver, and can be downloaded at http://www.midiox.com/

Although the manual for the Uno has apparently not been updated since Windows XP. there are drivers on the M-Audio website for the Uno up to Windows 10, and it sounds like you should definitely try them. Follow the directions in the manual for installation.

https://m-audio.com/support/drivers click: under Series\MIDI interface under Product MIDISport Uno USB under driver whatever fits your OS.

[nico_bounde]

thank you for information.

I'll try the midiox and let you know.

For the M-AUDIO driver, I've already used the latest one found the m-audio website. But this didn't solve.

[57Gregy]

1 hour ago, nico_bounde said:

So, I am just wondering what is the best choice:

- buying this kind of audio interface to carry on trying to connect my ext. yamaha keyboard to CW

-buying a right MPC keyboard, that I connect directly connect to my computer via an USB cable

What solution do you believe is the best?

I am a part-time home studio guy. I don't have a lot of expensive gear, or even new gear. When I am in the mood to play and record, I don't want to get hung up on updating drivers, etc.
The machine I use is a 17-year old XP computer that hasn't been on the internet since the last decade. My brother built it and gave to me when my former computer died. It has an E-Mu 0404 audio interface in it with MIDI connectors. My previous interface and keyboard also had MIDI ports, so that's what I get. 
A newer computer would almost certainly be better using USB. I read here that  USB is faster than MIDI cables are, or at least as fast.
But everything has to be compatible. 
Nevertheless, when the XP box dies and I'm forced to upgrade, I would still want an interface with MIDI ports. It just seems simpler to me.

[John Vere]

Personally I think the best route is to purchase a new midi controller. If your not planning on recording audio then an audio interface is optional. You definitely need an Audio interface if audio is in your future. And most interfaces come with midi din jacks. So you always have that option.  Cakewalk works best with ASIO drivers so and interface is always a good idea. But for pure midi recording WASAPI mode works great. 

If your a serious keyboard player make sure you get a good quality controller and not some cheap plastic toy. 

I use a Roland A 49 which has both the USB and the 5 pin Midi output. It always works. It has an up to date midi driver and Cakewalk always recognizes it. It feels smooth and solid under your fingers. 

Before that I had the almost identical Roland Controller PC 200  which was only a 5 pin Midi output and that always worked too >>for 20 years. It was still working until I spilled coffee on it. 

I like the size as it fits nicely on my workspace. 

 

 

[user 905133]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:32 PM, nico_bounde said:

I first tried the usual connection Keyboard OUT PORT to IN PORT of my converter and Keyboard IN PORT to OUT PORT of my converter.  I didn't manage to control cakewalk in that way. So, I tried the opposite. In that way, Cakewalk seems working. 

I have seen labelling where MIDI OUT means "connect this to the MIDI OUT of a MIDI device" and MIDI IN means "connect this to the MIDI IN of a MIDI device." I am not familiar with the M-Audio Uno, but I did find a manual online for the M-Audio USB MIDISPORT Uno. It says:

• “TO MIDI OUT” connector - Connect this plug to your external instrument’s MIDI output port.
• “TO MIDI IN” connector - Connect this plug to your external instrument’s MIDI input port.

This is the opposite of gear that has ports labelled OUT and IN where OUT means "this is where the MIDI data comes out" and IN means "this is where the MIDI data get sent in.

 

 

 

[sjoens]

Was this mentioned? Check your track "Input" button to make sure the Yamaha is selected with (channel 1 or omni) instead of the CW virtual controller.

My Yamaha PSR540 also Keeps the MIDI interface light lit continuously. Must be a Yamaha thing. Since I don't use it as a controller, I leave that cable disconnected.