2021.01 Feedback

[Byron Dickens]

After an attempted update, I am now dead in the water:

 

 

n

[Theo Hughes]

I too now start Cakewalk, I can open a project, but as soon as I hit play it locks up and stays persistent in the Task Manager so I'm forced to reboot in order to try to load it again. It also hangs on the "loading files" message. Worked fine a few weeks ago. Windows update is the only thing I can think of that has changed in the past few weeks.

I try running Cakewalk but it hangs here most of the time.

I tried uninstalling but I got the error "The setup files are corrupted. Please obtain a new copy of the program". 

 

*UPDATE*

Holding Ctrl while launching Cakewalk to reset the defaults seems to have fixed the issue. I suspect switching TVs messed with the audio driver to it confusing the program.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Theo Hughes
I found fix

[Teegarden]

6 hours ago, bdickens said:

After an attempted update, I am now dead in the water

Are you running an older version of Windows?

The error code can come from a number of things (below some I could find):

1. When the online activation fails, a number of problems can result in a failure with error code 0x80072EE7 
   According to the Microsoft Knowledgebase: "The 0x80072EE7 error code may occur if the client computer cannot find the correct IP address when it tries to resolve a URL for the Windows Update Web site or for the Microsoft Update Web site. This error may occur if the Hosts file contains a static IP address."
   Found in the field: The OOBE (Out Of Box Experience) has not been finished, but the Operating System has been set in "Audit Mode" with the key combination Ctrl + Shift + F3. In this case the OS cannot be activated online either. Not only this error code will be shown, but the OS will also complain "No product key found"

2. Corrupted windows System files

3. Network connection configuration

4. Registry Repair

5. Viruses

6. Windows device update and drivers

Here are some tips in order to try to fix these: fixforwindows

Did you try to restore a registry backup?  Windows start => type "system protection" => click "System Restore" => click "next" => choose a date where your system was still working (if there are any made before your last updates...).

• After that I would first check update Windows update => Windows start button => "settings" => "Update & Security" => "check for updates", install if there are any. Also click "view optional updates" if there are any and check if you want them installed, there could be a newer driver or other useful update
• Then check if all your drivers are up to date. You can use a free program like Dumo to see which drivers need to be updated. Preferably, get each from its own homepage
• Don't forget to update visual C runtimes (all updates in one installer in the hyperlink) and maybe Java and .Net (this one is supposed to be included in the Windows updates) 
• Make sure the latest Microsoft Edge is well installed and updated...

Now I would try to update CbB (everything with administration rights! => right-click each file you need to install and select "Run as administrator")

If a file can't be updated it is often because it is in use and/or not being updated with administrator rights.
Check in "Task Manager" if you can find the file running. If so, right click the file and select "end task" and try updating again .

Check if everything works when updated.

Next update the other software you had previously updated one by one and check after each installation first if CbB still works well. Maybe it was one of the plugins that also created problems

You can check what other software needs an update by using a free program like Sumo (and get desired updates from each program's homepage)

Maybe you can also find some answers in this thread:

I hope this helps! 
 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Teegarden

[User Zero]

6 hours ago, Teegarden said:

Are you running an older version of Windows?

Not sure I understand why anyone would ask this question.

If there are versions of Windows that this application doesn't support, it should explicitly SAY so when an installation or update attempt is made. As such, the version of Windows should be irrelevant. If the application installs or updates, it should work. Period. If an OS version is not supported, the install or update should abort, with a clear message explaining why. At the very minimum, the user should get a clear prompt before ANY change is made, enumerating the possible outcomes... which should have been identified during product Q.A. This is just basic common sense.

When I ran the update that destroyed my install the other day (and which has rendered my CbB projects inaccessible), I noticed with no small degree of horror that it ran an installation of some Microsoft Edge component. Microsoft support states that Edge is not compatible with Win7. This is a pretty clear indication that BandLab Assistant isn't paying any attention at all to the version of Windows on which it's running, when it absolutely should be - especially if there's a possibility that an installation or update can render the application inoperable.

Independent of OS version, at a very minimum users should get a prompt warning that this Edge component is about to be installed, so they can decide whether or not they want more Microsoft garbage on their system - especially if they've previously gone to considerable effort to REMOVE it.

Beyond this, the fact that a broken update persists across multiple successful System Restore operations demonstrates that BandLab Tech doesn't fully understand how to package a Windows application in a way such that changes can be undone when needed, for whatever reason.

These 'dead in the water' situations, like mine, are a good indication that BandLab Tech is not testing this product very thoroughly.

If anyone can provide a link to an installer for an older version of BandLab, so that I can at least salvage the stems on the projects I was working on, I'd be very grateful.

TIA!

Edited February 23, 2021 by User Zero

[Byron Dickens]

Bingo.

If indeed I am too far behind, or missing certain necessary other things (such as Edge), it is absolutely unacceptable that CbB should go ahead with the installation anyway and then end up trashing itself, rendering all my projects unavailable.

[Glenn Stanton]

hmmm. Microsoft announced that Windows 7 support ends on January 14th 2020. On this date, Intune also retires support for devices running Windows 7. For more information, see Intune plan for change: end of support for Windows 7. Microsoft Intune will retire support for the Silverlight-based Intune console on October 15, 2020.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/windows-7-end-of-life-support-information

in theory, Windows 7 should still work even though the last updates to the OS were at least a year ago. i'm guessing though that in short order not just security updates will be unavailable but many of the system components will as well. not sure why Edge components would be installed by CbB or even needed. there may be C++ libraries which are common to both which would be necessary...

weird that the projects would not be accessible unless the installer overwrote your project directories and/or changed permissions. are you saying the project files are no longer accessible because they've been deleted or permissions changed to an account you have no access? or you just cannot open the projects because CbB failed during installation? if the latter, i'd try out Teegarden's recommendations. if the former, hopefully you have a good practice of backing up the projects that you can recover from.

[User Zero]

21 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

hmmm.

No need to condescend. Win7's support status is public information. That's actually kind of the point.

If this application no longer runs reliably on that OS, it should not be blindly installing or updating itself there, much less attempting to install a Win10-specific component which - per Microsoft - does not run on Win7. Again, this is all just basic common sense - at least for a competent development team. There's no way for the hapless user to know that when she clicks Update, she's going to have her system polluted with Microsoft glurge that is commonly removed from Win10 by users who want better performance, better privacy and better security.

Quote

weird that the projects would not be accessible

Not weird at all. The program crashes whenever I attempt to load CbB projects that were perfectly fine that very morning, before the update.  Therefore they are - by definition - no longer accessible. This isn't an issue with drivers or backups or anything else. It's an issue created by an Update process that replaced a working version of the application with a broken one, and which did so in such a way that multiple successful System Restore operations could not undo the change. Unacceptable.

Edited February 23, 2021 by User Zero

[user 905133]

46 minutes ago, User Zero said:

1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said:

hmmm. 

No need to condescend.

I disagree  with your reading of the post you cited. I use "hmmm" in many cases as a sign that I am thinking about what someone said. I don't think I have ever used it as a sign of ridicule, condescension, condemnation, etc. such as you have in this case.  To me his comments do not seem to reflect such a tone that you attribute to it. 

Contrast the use of "hmmm" with the following:

2 hours ago, User Zero said:

Not sure I understand why anyone would ask this question. 

This is just basic common sense.

46 minutes ago, User Zero said:

Again, this is all just basic common sense - at least for a competent development team.

Is "hmmmm" intentionally insulting to you?

That being said, I think your point that CbB should halt installation and issue a warning instead of installing the update might be valid if what you say is true.  

If you read the forum, you will see that there were issues and feedback given regarding the Windows Component that is part of The Edge.  Changes were made.  Maybe other changes are needed if the developers want to make CbB work under Windows 7.  I don't know.

2 hours ago, User Zero said:

If anyone can provide a link to an installer for an older version of BandLab, so that I can at least salvage the stems on the projects I was working on, I'd be very grateful. [emphasis was in the original post by User Zero]

Do you want an installer for an older version of Bandlab or Cakewalk?  If the latter, perhaps there are still some links for rollback versions a "rollback installer" in the forum.  

Edited February 23, 2021 by User 905133
to change "rollback version" to "'rollback install'" because the phrase works better in search. "Rollback" also finds posts that reference other things as well.

[Kurre]

@User Zero

I'm afraid i have to destroy the theory that the webview app is the culprit. It most likely is not.

I and other win7 users have observed the installation of edge webview go ahead without any problem.

Concentrate your troubleshooting on other things and don't get hung up on this.

[User Zero]

4 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

I disagree...

Noted.

Quote

CbB should halt installation and issue a warning instead of installing the update might be valid

I'd submit that it's valid regardless of anything I've said. It's simple common sense if your aim is to release a functional, user-friendly application. If an application isn't compatible with a given OS, the fact that the installer or update will run AT ALL is a pretty huge Red Flag. If it does, and the OS is not - or, more importantly, is no longer - supported, the Update process either needs to halt the process or make the user aware of potential issues. Instead, the BA Update process blindly went ahead with installing an (apparently) incompatible version of the application and, to boot, installed an incompatible Win10 component without providing the option to skip it.

Quote

If you read the forum, you will see that there were issues and feedback given regarding the Windows Component that is part of The Edge.  Changes were made. 

Not sure how this applies. I ran BandLab Assistant and used that to run CbB, ignoring the Update button because I had work to do. I used it successfully for hours on Saturday morning to do a variety of tasks on multiple CbB projects. Once I'd finished what I wanted to do, later that evening I went back and activated the Update button, after which the program crashed every time I tried to load projects that had worked fine prior to the update. Was I supposed to anticipate major problems, hunt down this forum (which I didn't even know existed) and read every post before doing that? I'm not sure anyone would consider that practical. I don't think anyone is that prescient.

Quote

Do you want an installer for an older version of Bandlab or Cakewalk?

Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm looking for an installer that will get me an (older?) working version of the DAW, so that I can open the projects that are now in limbo, extract the stems, and move on to using a product I can rely on, like Reaper.

[Noel Borthwick]

Firstly were not installing edge so lets debunk that theory. Its a webview component that is REQUIRED by cakewalk to do single sign on to BandLab both for activation and future integration. It does work on Windows 7 and was tested by QA. WebView is not the same thing as Edge. 

We have clearly indicated many times that we don't actively support Win 7 any more and allow installation as a courtesy. The installer even tells you this! 
If you are still using Win7 and installing updates you can still revert to a the prior version if you have issues.

[Noel Borthwick]

6 minutes ago, User Zero said:

Noted.

I'd submit that it's valid regardless of anything I've said. It's simple common sense if your aim is to release a functional, user-friendly application. If an application isn't compatible with a given OS, the fact that the installer or update will run AT ALL is a pretty huge Red Flag. If it does, and the OS is not - or, more importantly, is no longer - supported, the Update process either needs to halt the process or make the user aware of potential issues. Instead, the BA Update process blindly went ahead with installing an (apparently) incompatible version of the application and, to boot, installed an incompatible Win10 component without providing the option to skip it.

Not sure how this applies. I ran BandLab Assistant and used that to run CbB, ignoring the Update button because I had work to do. I used it successfully for hours on Saturday morning to do a variety of tasks on multiple CbB projects. Once I'd finished what I wanted to do, later that evening I went back and activated the Update button, after which the program crashed every time I tried to load projects that had worked fine prior to the update. Was I supposed to anticipate major problems, hunt down this forum (which I didn't even know existed) and read every post before doing that? I'm not sure anyone would consider that practical. I don't think anyone is that prescient.

Pretty sure I made it clear that I'm looking for an installer that will get me an (older?) working version of the DAW, so that I can open the projects that are now in limbo, extract the stems, and move on to using a product I can rely on, like Reaper.

Please read my post above. Are you indeed running Win7?

If not please follow the steps in my sig to capture a dump and send a link. If its hanging we can tell whats causing it normally. 

[User Zero]

11 minutes ago, Kurre said:

@User Zero

I'm afraid i have to destroy the theory that the webview app is the culprit. It most likely is not.

I'm afraid I have to destroy the implication that I ever suggested that the webview app was the culprit. Nowhere have I stated that. I've simply noted that it's a component that should not be blindly installed as part of an update to an application on an OS where it is not intended to function (per Microsoft). Whether it's actually causing problems is completely beside the point.

The System Restore operations I successfully completed seem to have removed the MS Edge component(s). Prior to the Restore, I see numerous events in my Event Viewer generated by "edgeupdate" as it phoned home every 5-10 minutes looking for updates in the background without permission, which is just ONE of the undesirable behaviors that motivate users to remove Edge from their Win10 systems. Those events stopped appearing after the Restore operation.

[User Zero]

6 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Firstly were not installing edge so lets debunk that theory.

With all due respect, Noel, if that were true, my Event Viewer would not contain multiple events generated by "edgeupdate" roughly every five minutes. You may not be installing the entire Edge application and all of its supporting componentry, but you're definitely installing enough of it to put tasks and services in place that the updater DOES NOT ask permission to install, which periodically run tasks in the background that phone home to Microsoft (hopefully) without asking the user's permission. One instance:

Quote

 

The description for Event ID 0 from source edgeupdate cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted. You can install or repair the component on the local computer.

If the event originated on another computer, the display information had to be saved with the event.

The following information was included with the event:

Service stopped

 

I've since managed to remove this unwanted Microsoft junk using System Restore. Despite that, CbB still crashes when it tries to load sample libraries that it loaded just fine prior to the update. So apparently, one aspect of the application's present status with respect to Win7 (yes, of course that's the OS I'm using) is that any Update (i.e., from Bandlab Assistant) can permanently corrupt the application to the point where even System Restore can not return it to functionality. Nice.

Thanks.

[Noel Borthwick]

We don't control what Microsoft installs within its redistributables. It uses components that are part of edge but its not the edge browser itself. .

So if you don't like that I'm sorry there isn't anything we can do to solve that. If you want to keep using Win7 an unsupported OS by both Microsoft and Cakewalk, its your call. However we don't have the bandwidth to support it and you will almost surely have more problems going forward.
That said there are plenty of other people running the last update even on Win7 with no such issues.

Quote

I've simply noted that it's a component that should not be blindly installed as part of an update to an application on an OS where it is not intended to function (per Microsoft). 

This is incorrect. Webview is supported by Microsoft even on Windows 7.
Windows 7, 8, 10 support
Support for a consistent user experience across Windows 7, 8, and 10.

>> CbB still crashes when it tries to load sample libraries that it loaded just fine prior to the update.
What sample libraries? Is it crashing when loading a plugin? If so the crash site may not be in Cbb but in a plugin that has incompatibilities. 
As I said above save the crash dump and send a link.  There are instructions in my sig to do this.

[User Zero]

5 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

We don't control what Microsoft installs within its redistributables. It uses components that are part of edge but its not the edge browser itself. .

So if you don't like that I'm sorry there isn't anything we can do to solve that. If you want to keep using Win7 an unsupported OS by both Microsoft and Cakewalk, its your call. However we don't have the bandwidth to support it and you will almost surely have more problems going forward.
That said there are plenty of other people running the last update even on Win7 with no such issues.

Hi Noel,

I'm not suggesting BL Tech should support Win7. What I'm suggesting is that the Update function should (a) not permanently trash a working installation, regardless of what OS it's installing to and (b) not install components that are specific to Win10, and NOT intended to be run on Win7, per Microsoft, without expressly asking the user for permission to do so.

It's common knowledge that users frequently choose to disable and/or uninstall Edge componentry from their Win10 systems - the constant "phone home" function being one of the reasons. The component(s) you're installing perform that function roughly every 5 minutes, so while you may not be installing the browser, you're definitely adding the offending resource-consuming components, without actually informing the user in the process.

In any case, prior to the 2021 update I had a perfectly functional CbB DAW on Win7 which did everything I needed it to do. My mistake was clicking the Update button on the BandLab Assistant app.

My issue now is that I can't restore it BACK to the state where it was working, by performing a successful System Restore. So the update clearly changed something that is OUTSIDE of the file system that is normally managed by Windows' SR functionality.

As noted in my first post on this topic, if you have a link to installers for earlier versions of the CbB DAW, I'd appreciate a copy so I can give them a try.

Thanks.

[Noel Borthwick]

I thought my reply clarified that were not installing anything that doesn't work on Win7 as per Microsofts documentation and our tests showed. We don't need to ask for permission to install libraries that are necessary for the function of our application. We don't test on machines that are tweaked to disable windows components and if things break due to that its not something to blame Cakewalk for.
The link to a rollback installer is right in the first para of the main release notes.

[Xoo]

And if System Restore didn't work as expected, then any ire should probably be directed at Microsoft...they built that!

[User Zero]

8 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I thought my reply clarified that were not installing anything that doesn't work on Win7 as per Microsofts documentation and our tests showed. We don't need to ask for permission to install libraries that are necessary for the function of our application. We don't test on machines that are tweaked to disable windows components and if things break due to that its not something to blame Cakewalk for.
The link to a rollback installer is right in the first para of the main release notes.

At no point have I implied that you're installing something that doesn't work on Win7.

Here, I'll try to put it more simply... Microsoft Edge is a Win10-specific application. YES, I get it: you're not installing Edge, that's not the issue. While you (think you) may be only installing Edge's "WebView" component, after the CbB update, an "edgeupdate" service is installed on the user's system, and a task is set up to cause this service to phone home every 5 minutes looking for updates. Even worse, apparently this component is looking for updates to an application (i.e., MS Edge) that isn't even there (see the previous post where I included an Event message).

Again, this service - the one you're installing - exhibits exactly the sort of resource-consuming behavior that motivates people to remove Edge from their Win10 systems. If you're going to CHOOSE to use a component that requires installation of something like this as part of your design, you should be informing your users.

At no point have I stated that CbB should work on a system where Edge has been disabled or removed, so let's please not try to confuse the issue here with that.

I saw the rollback installer. That only works if you have 2021 installed. I already clearly stated in my first post that after a successful System Restore, "the CW app's Help About reports that it's back to Version 2020.08 (Build 100, 64 bit)". Thus, the rollback installer won't run. Yet the DAW still crashes when I load a project that worked fine before the update.

Again, if you have a link to actual installer exes for 2020.8 or previous, please let me know.

Thanks.

[Glenn Stanton]

2 hours ago, User Zero said:

No need to condescend. Win7's support status is public information. That's actually kind of the point

the hmmm wasn't to condescend, i fully empathize with your situation. it was more a pause to consider that in the year since it went unsupport that perhaps some of the libraries which are required may have been updated or in some cases as i noted, confused in their stacking which has caused crashing or inoperation on my systems as well. cheers and hopefully this will be resolved.