Bundle File

[brandon]

When a bundle file has been saved is it then safe to delete any audio files (from the Audio folder)  that were associated with the project? As far as i am aware the bundle file should contain all the necessary wav files I am right in that thinking?

 

Thanks

[scook]

Since the introduction of per-project audio folders 16 years ago, bundles have been redundant.

The bundling feature is there for backward compatibility.

It is a convenience feature suitable for sharing projects.

Bundling is not a suitable format for archiving projects.

IOW, do not rely on a bundle as the only source of a project.

 

Instead save projects in individual folders with their audio in a folder beneath the project file, the default layout for projects with per-project audio folders.

This is a suitable format for archiving.

 

That said a bundle, just like creating a new project with a per-project audio folder using "Save As" with "Copy all audio with project" enabled, contains the all audio referenced in the project. Unlike the bundle, the project copy is ready to play. The bundle must first be unbundled to be playable. And there lies the risk.

 

[brandon]

Thanks Scook.

When saving as a per project audio folder do all of the tracks need to be audio tracks? Or does it also save the audio associated with virtual instruments?

Thanks again

[brandon]

Also where do I go to select the 'per-project audio folders' option as it is not showing in  Edit > Preferences > File - Audio Data?

Thanks

[scook]

Any audio clip regardless of how it was created is saved with "Save As" just like a bundle.

Per-project audio folders have been the default for several years now.

The preference setting was removed years ago.

 

[brandon]

When I click "save as" the only options I get are to save as Normal, Template, Bundle, Midi or Riff. Is there something missing here or am  I not approaching this correctly?

Thanks

 

[scook]

Sounds right to me

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x2021C

 

[Lord Tim]

Your best bet is to do Save As, and save the project to a new location, ensuring Copy all audio with project is checked in the Save dialog. That way, you'll get only the active audio you've got in the project and the CWP file saved to that new location and none of the other unused takes. You should be fairly safe to delete the original project folder after that.

[brandon]

Ok so far. Now in my 'save as' options  I get the image below.

And my last few questions are:

1) Do I save as a 'Normal' type file and simply "Copy all audio with project" ?

2) If I wanted to how would I "Create one file per clip" as this option is greyed out (even if I uncheck the copy all audio option)?

3) What are the pros and cons of Copying all audio as opposed to Creating one file per clip?

Many many thanks

[Lord Tim]

1. Yes

2. Don't worry about it

3. One file per clip means that if you've, say, copied in a hand clap sample 40 times into a project, rather than referencing that one WAV, it'll save an individual copy of each. In some ways that can be handy, but usually it's just a big waste of disk space.

After you save the project to its new location, you should see the audio files being copied over. I'd double check that everything is there by closing Cakewalk down, reopening it, and then opening up the new version that you saved, just to ensure everything copied over OK. I've never had this go wrong on me, so I personally don't bother any more, but it's good for your own peace of mind when you try this out the first time.

[brandon]

Thank you Lord Tim. It seems I have been saving files like this already and simply been oblivious as to what they comprised of.  However one thing I have noticed is that it has only saved the actual audio (wav) files from my project. The virtual instruments (drums, bass etc) have not been converted to audio and saved which i did think (hope) may have occurred. Would you ordinarily convert these to an audio track before performing this type of save?

And on another note. I now have the project folder and the audio folder. CbB knows where they are located. if I copy them to another PC and open the CWP in CbB how does it know where to look for the audio files?

Many thanks

[Lord Tim]

If you want to convert the MIDI tracks to audio, freeze the tracks first, or bounce them down to new tracks inside the project and archive the MIDI/Synths.

If you're just doing a Save As and saving the project in the same location, it won't actually copy anything anywhere - you'll need to choose a new folder to copy everything over. For example, you might have your original project like this:

C:\Cakewalk Projects\Project Name\MyProject.cwp  
and the audio would be in C:\Cakewalk Projects\Project Name\Audio

If you just did a Save As in this same directory, you wouldn't really be copying anything, you'd just be making a different project referencing the same audio.

What you'd want to do is make a new folder somewhere, eg:

C:\Cakewalk Projects\NEW PROJECT\

And then you'd do Save As / Copy all audio with project and navigate to the NEW PROJECT folder. That'll save the MyProject.cwp file in that folder, and copy over all of the active audio files into an Audio sub folder. The NEW PROJECT folder and everything in it is what you'd copy to your backup media or a new computer. If you open the MyProject.cwp file in this NEW PROJECT folder, it'll reference the WAV files in the Audio subdirectory in that folder, rather than the previous location. In other words, everything in the NEW PROJECT folder is its own self-contained thing now. (Obviously these are just example names, call this stuff whatever you like )

But as I said and you discovered, this is basically replicating your existing project, so if you do try to open this on a machine without your current synths or effects on it, it won't play properly, so freezing or bouncing down the synths to a new track is a good idea regardless I think.

[brandon]

Thank you.

A last quick one. Lets say I "save as" a project and "copy all audio with project" and its nicely tucked away in its own folder for backup purposes. 

Then, I do some (more) final tweaks to it. Not messing with audio just maybe some mixing. Would I then just click "save" or does it have to be another "save as"?

[scook]

You may but if this is really a backup copy it probably should not be used as a working copy.

Instead, copy the backup to another location used for active projects and work on it there.

A working copy may be made by using Windows Explorer to copy the project folder to the active projects area or by using "Save As" in CbB.

Backup the working copy as needed.

 

Use "Save" to save the current project in its current location

Use "Save As" or "Save Copy As" to

• Create new project files (cwp) in the current location. A project folder may contain multiple project files pointing to the same Audio folder. Before Mix Recall this was the way to keep multiple mixes or snapshots of a project.
• Create copies of the project in a new location. This type of copy has been the subject of this thread.

The only difference between "Save As" and "Save Copy As" is

• "Save As" performs the copy, closes the old project and opens the new project.
• "Save Copy As" only performs the copy.

[sjoens]

Obviously, "save" will overwrite existing material. "Save As" allows you to preserve the original project by creating a new one.

I always save any new edits as a dated or sequentially numbered file within the same project folder. This is my working folder.

When I'm happy with the results (which is almost never) I'll "save as" to a new location where only pertinent audio will be saved.

A Bundle file and a Project with Audio folder should be the same physical size because Bundle files don't actually compress anything. They just wrap, or "bundle" all associated files into one big file. Over time they can degrade or become corrupt for some reason. Opening them in a vastly newer version of Sonar or CbB may cause issues as well.  Using Per Project Audio folders is the safest way to archive a project IMO.

As stated, if you want VSTi audio included in a Bundle file it must be frozen or bounced. Otherwise there is no audio data to include.

Edited November 13, 2020 by sjoens