Future Request - Ability to send Midi from one midi track to multiple instruments & effects

[Enej Johhem]

It would be great if Cakewalk can send Midi from one midi track to multiple instruments & effects.

Another Request is that It would be great if I can automate the mute of Effects Plugin in the FX Rack

Edited November 5, 2020 by Enej Johhem

[Starship Krupa]

On 11/5/2020 at 8:29 AM, Enej Johhem said:

send Midi from one midi track to multiple instruments & effects

I would looooove this. I like to layer synth sounds with different instruments. I was kind of surprised when I discovered that Cakewalk doesn't already have that feature.

[Promidi]

On 11/6/2020 at 2:59 AM, Enej Johhem said:

It would be great if Cakewalk can send Midi from one midi track to multiple instruments & effects.

Until this is available in Cakewalk, you could use a VSTi that has a MIDI Thru function. Then you can route its MIDI out to as many synths as your CPU can handle.

MIDImonitor 1.3 is an example of a VSTi that does MIDI Thru

https://pw.promidi.com.au/softopen/midiMonitor_x64.zip

Edited November 14, 2020 by Promidi

[Roberto Navarro Camacho]

My Cakewalk is doing exactly this and I want to get rid of it. I don´t remember when it started, but I did not had this "problem" but after one of the updates of octuber, I started getting this issue that all midi instruments would play the same notes, even if there is no midi information on a midi track. 

For example, I have one song with 4 midi instruments, 3 Synths Pads and one with drums. For some reason Cakewalk started playing all the midi patterns on all instruments. I was able to change that by selecting a specific channel on the MIDI section of each instrument, but when I export the cakewalk session, it exports the same midi pattern on all midi instruments. Even though when doing playback in the cakewalk session it did not do this. 

I attach an image with the setup on cakewalk and sound samples of the result I get. 

Any ideas what is happening?

test ok.mp3 test 1.mp3

[Promidi]

55 minutes ago, Roberto Navarro Camacho said:

My Cakewalk is doing exactly this and I want to get rid of it. I don´t remember when it started, but I did not had this "problem" but after one of the updates of octuber, I started getting this issue that all midi instruments would play the same notes, even if there is no midi information on a midi track. 

 

You might be better off posting this as a new topic on the following forum.

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/forum/12-qa/

[msmcleod]

49 minutes ago, Roberto Navarro Camacho said:

My Cakewalk is doing exactly this and I want to get rid of it. I don´t remember when it started, but I did not had this "problem" but after one of the updates of octuber, I started getting this issue that all midi instruments would play the same notes, even if there is no midi information on a midi track. 

For example, I have one song with 4 midi instruments, 3 Synths Pads and one with drums. For some reason Cakewalk started playing all the midi patterns on all instruments. I was able to change that by selecting a specific channel on the MIDI section of each instrument, but when I export the cakewalk session, it exports the same midi pattern on all midi instruments. Even though when doing playback in the cakewalk session it did not do this. 

I attach an image with the setup on cakewalk and sound samples of the result I get. 

Any ideas what is happening?

test ok.mp3 362.88 kB · 0 downloads test 1.mp3 665.36 kB · 0 downloads

You've probably got MIDI output enabled on your synths.

You can change the default by going to the insert synth options page and uncheck "Enable MIDI Output".  For existing synths, go to the VST menu at the top of the synth properties page, and disable MIDI output.

  

However, if you really do need MIDI output on a synth, you'll need to use a specific MIDI input on your other tracks, rather than Omni, None,  or All Inputs, e.g.:

 
 

[Roberto Navarro Camacho]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

You've probably got MIDI output enabled on your synths.

You can change the default by going to the insert synth options page and uncheck "Enable MIDI Output".  For existing synths, go to the VST menu at the top of the synth properties page, and disable MIDI output.

  

However, if you really do need MIDI output on a synth, you'll need to use a specific MIDI input on your other tracks, rather than Omni, None,  or All Inputs, e.g.:

 
 

Hey Thanks!. That worked. 

 

[Colin Nicholls]

 

 

[jonno58]

I appreciate this is kind of an old topic, but I was trying to do exactly this, and it foxed me for a while until I realised that Cakewalk can already do this. But what stops it happening is that when you click on a Midi track to make that the input track it automatically switches off the audio for all the other Midi tracks. (Which is fair enough because in most cases that is indeed what you want. Eg you don't want the drums sounding when you're adding a piano .)

However  to make the other Midi tracks sound when you play the keyboard just requires clicking on the loudspeaker icon for each of the other tracks.

(This of course assumes each track is set to Omni or at least to the same channel number as the keyboard.)

As a refinement if a separate midi track is added for each sound (ie insert a midi track and set the output to the particular sound) the Cakewalk Transpose function (under midi FX) can be used to play the other instrument a third or whatever above or below.

And the same principle applies to as many instruments as you like. All in real time. So you can have an instant horn section (say).

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, jonno58 said:

I was trying to do exactly this, and it foxed me for a while until I realised that Cakewalk can already do this.

Could you share how you're getting Cakewalk to do it? AFAIK, it requires the first instrument to support MIDI out, which not all soft synths do.

[jonno58]

Very happy to do so. Do you want to give me some idea of what details you need / want?

As a start I've attached a screenshot of what I did, albeit that was the first (and so far only) attempt.

My impression though is that the original (pre-DAW) Midi was pretty much specifically designed to do exactly that ie play lots of instruments at once using Midi thru. So I'll be disappointed if it only works in a limited number of cases...

 

[jonno58]

OK... So I discovered a better method, courtesy of another forum. My original method didn't allow the recorded Midi to trigger the other synths, but this one does. So essentially it's the Holy Grail that allows everything to be done in one Midi track. So any edits affect all the other tracks automatically.

The forum is https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/19314-one-midi-track-multiple-soft-synths/

and the important post is by rsinger on Sep 7th 2020, which says 'Add your first VSTi with MIDI out enabled and then add a second VSTi instrument and on the MIDI track that is part of the second VSTi set the MIDI Input to your first VSTi.'

So... Track 1 is the first VSTi Track . (Inserted as a Simple Instrument Track, and with Midi Output enabled)
 
Track 2 was inserted as the second VSTi, but this time with the option changed to Midi Source. And then (as per the instructions) with the Midi input changed to the first VSTi.

Track 3 is the second VSTi inserted again, but this time as a Simple Instrument Track. And the output of Track 2 changed to point at this VSTi.

Happy to answer any questions. (Although I'll not be available much in the next couple of days.)

[xtenkfarpl]

Still not working for me.  I followed the steps exactly as far as I can tell, but I get no output from the second soft synth.  In fact if I select any track other than the first, nothing. 

Is there some "obvious" step that I'm missing?

This is frustrating.  Surely MIDI output to multiple synths should be a basic feature?

Yeah, yeah, I can copy the bloody MIDI track.  And just replace it if I edit it.  But shouldn't something as simple as this be a basic feature?

 

On 1/4/2023 at 10:54 AM, jonno58 said:

OK... So I discovered a better method, courtesy of another forum. My original method didn't allow the recorded Midi to trigger the other synths, but this one does. So essentially it's the Holy Grail that allows everything to be done in one Midi track. So any edits affect all the other tracks automatically.

The forum is https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/19314-one-midi-track-multiple-soft-synths/

and the important post is by rsinger on Sep 7th 2020, which says 'Add your first VSTi with MIDI out enabled and then add a second VSTi instrument and on the MIDI track that is part of the second VSTi set the MIDI Input to your first VSTi.'

So... Track 1 is the first VSTi Track . (Inserted as a Simple Instrument Track, and with Midi Output enabled)
 
Track 2 was inserted as the second VSTi, but this time with the option changed to Midi Source. And then (as per the instructions) with the Midi input changed to the first VSTi.

Track 3 is the second VSTi inserted again, but this time as a Simple Instrument Track. And the output of Track 2 changed to point at this VSTi.

Happy to answer any questions. (Although I'll not be available much in the next couple of days.)

 

[Glenn Stanton]

i use the chordz (free), ripchord (free), or scaler 2 (paid) plugins for the source. then simply assign the inputs on my other tracks to the source (chordz example). seems to be reliable. one important note - enable the echo on each MIDI track.

also, the source has to have 

check BEFORE creating the source. checking the box later (updating the dialog) does not work...

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Glenn Stanton

[scook]

17 minutes ago, xtenkfarpl said:

Still not working for me.  I followed the steps exactly as far as I can tell, but I get no output from the second soft synth.  In fact if I select any track other than the first, nothing. 

Is there some "obvious" step that I'm missing?

Fancy routing usually means manually setting input echo on tracks (the button right of record on each track) in order to hear the incoming data.

Try disabling Always Echo Current MIDI Track in preferences and manually set as needed.

[jonno58]

12 minutes ago, xtenkfarpl said:

Still not working for me.  I followed the steps exactly as far as I can tell, but I get no output from the second soft synth.  In fact if I select any track other than the first, nothing. 

Is there some "obvious" step that I'm missing?

This is frustrating.  Surely MIDI output to multiple synths should be a basic feature?

Yeah, yeah, I can copy the bloody MIDI track.  And just replace it if I edit it.  But shouldn't something as simple as this be a basic feature?

 

 

If you post a screen shot perhaps I or someone else can try and figure out what's happening.

Hopefully there will be some easy fix.

Cos I agree. Having to copy and paste the MIDI track is just plain nuts. (Which is why I was so delighted to stumble across the answer.)

[xtenkfarpl]

OK.  Here's a step by step report.  Using only the built-in facilities, so there is no confusion about third party VSTs.

First, I create a new empty project and insert SI instrument piano.  Simple instrument track, MIDI output enabled.  No other options checked.

Works as expected.  I can record a few notes & they play back fine.

Next, as per Joono's procedure,  I insert an SI  bass track with just MIDI souce and MIDI output enabled on the checkboxes.

Then I change its MIDI source to the SI piano track.  Here I get a choice of channels, and select 'omni'. 

This is where the problem seems to occur: I get no input to this new track from either keyboard or the original track.

I can go on and create a third track but that makes no difference since I'm getting no input on the second?

Am I missing something obvious... or is this a missing feature (or bug)?

 

 

 

[jonno58]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:17 PM, xtenkfarpl said:

OK.  Here's a step by step report.  Using only the built-in facilities, so there is no confusion about third party VSTs.

First, I create a new empty project and insert SI instrument piano.  Simple instrument track, MIDI output enabled.  No other options checked.

Works as expected.  I can record a few notes & they play back fine.

Next, as per Joono's procedure,  I insert an SI  bass track with just MIDI souce and MIDI output enabled on the checkboxes.

Then I change its MIDI source to the SI piano track.  Here I get a choice of channels, and select 'omni'. 

This is where the problem seems to occur: I get no input to this new track from either keyboard or the original track.

I can go on and create a third track but that makes no difference since I'm getting no input on the second?

Am I missing something obvious... or is this a missing feature (or bug)?

 

 

 

Umm... I just did what you did and it works.

That is... a) On the first and third tracks you need to click on the Input Echo button to switch it on if it's off.

b) the selected track needs to be the first track.

So the screen should look like this.

----------------------

Update - In my haste to reply I didn't check whether it would play the recorded MIDI. Which it turns out it doesn't. Apologies for that. (There might be a setting somewhere in SI Piano, but I haven't found it at the moment.)

It does definitely play both instruments at once from the keyboard though. (Providing that you play notes that are low enough for the bass guitar, that is. Above a certain range only the piano sounds.) Which is a start, although admittedly a long way short of ideal.

(My original post which used Arturia Pigments as the first VSTi is still valid, however. And that does play both instruments using recorded MIDI data. Plus transposition etc)

Edited January 6, 2023 by jonno58
Further information.

[sadicus]

This is really interesting! also A video Tutorial would be helpful.
Has anyone tried Divisimate? It may be a different thing than what your trying to do here? 

(posted in another thread:

[xtenkfarpl]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:52 PM, jonno58 said:

Umm... I just did what you did and it works.

That is... a) On the first and third tracks you need to click on the Input Echo button to switch it on if it's off.

b) the selected track needs to be the first track.

So the screen should look like this.

----------------------

Update - In my haste to reply I didn't check whether it would play the recorded MIDI. Which it turns out it doesn't. Apologies for that. (There might be a setting somewhere in SI Piano, but I haven't found it at the moment.)

It does definitely play both instruments at once from the keyboard though. (Providing that you play notes that are low enough for the bass guitar, that is. Above a certain range only the piano sounds.) Which is a start, although admittedly a long way short of ideal.

(My original post which used Arturia Pigments as the first VSTi is still valid, however. And that does play both instruments using recorded MIDI data. Plus transposition etc)

Right, I don't think we are any closer to a real solution.  The issue seems to be that Cakewalk does not currently seem to have the capability to route recorded MIDI data to more than one destination.  Compounded by the observation that the built-in instruments, at least, do not seem to support any kind of MIDI thru.  I've tried creating a basic MIDI track, but even if you have several soft synths in the project, you can only select the output to go to one of them.  And then, if you go to the track for a second soft synth, you CAN select the input to be the first: but you don't get any signal, even if you have checked MIDI output on the first synth and have MIDI echo enabled on all tracks.

I think, frankly, that this is a bug.  The 'option' to select the first synth as input to the second is bogus: it doesn't work.

Time for a bug report?   Meanwhile, I guess we are back to copying the MIDI track in as many versions as we want doubled synths, and re-copying any time we make a change.   Sigh....