I've been wrongly bashing Sound Cloud.

[mark skinner]

 I've been trying to upload a song to SC all week with bad results. I keep having problems with intros and fade outs being boosted Too much. I don't have internet in my outside studio so , I export to a folder / check it out , transfer to a flash drive/check it out from flash drive. Everything cool. Transfer to a folder on a laptop in my house and upload . Bad results. Delete and start over. Same thing .. I uploaded 2 versions a short test project , One with a -10.5 db drop in the intro and outro. Both came back sounding nearly identical. I installed CbB on the laptop and imported both versions into a project and heard a radicle difference and could see the wave file reductions in the adjusted version. No interface on the laptop , master out to realtec. The windows media player on my 8.1 laptop is the culprit. Windows media player on my win 7 studio pc works fine. So I've been listening to all my songs and probably yours with false results. I've been going through settings with no good results. I'm not sure what to do at this point.  This may be a common problem but I've never heard it discussed anywhere.  Same results thru VLC player.  ???     ms

[noynekker]

mark . . . I ditched VLC player when I hear it adding extra compression and auto leveling to my material. I found a forum site where they were discussing it, and it confirmed what I heard. As for Windows Media player, there are some colouration settings which can mostly be turned off, but watch out for those Windows major updates where things get turned back on sometimes.

[mark skinner]

Noynekker , Yeah I only use the VLC for converting some video files. I found the coloration settings in WMP , I'll keep an eye on them.  I'm suspecting the Dell laptop soundcard. I've got a cheap m-audio interface coming in soon . I'll load it up and use when streaming. I guess a new pc is in order.    I gave away my "gamer"    mark

[Sonarman]

I've always found VLC sounding identical on my exports. Are you guys talking abt a newer version. I never updated it to the V3. 

btw why would soundcloud sound boosted with intros and fadeouts if your Windows Media Player is the culprit? Do you not stream it directly on soundcloud?

[mark skinner]

The new interface is hooked up , everything sounds great and levels are where they should be (playing files and streaming from SC). Something must be normalizing it on my laptop in Windows sound settings or in the audio circuit itself . Never found it .  One more reason to use an interface even for just listening ..  Thanks ..   mark

[DeeringAmps]

10 hours ago, mark skinner said:

Dell laptop soundcard

There's your trouble...

t

[noynekker]

11 hours ago, Sonarman said:

I've always found VLC sounding identical on my exports. Are you guys talking abt a newer version. I never updated it to the V3. 

btw why would soundcloud sound boosted with intros and fadeouts if your Windows Media Player is the culprit? Do you not stream it directly on soundcloud?

At first, sure VLC Player sounded sonically correct compared to my mixes . . . but when I started listening to VLC Player app on my iPhone (played through larger speakers) there is some obvious level monkeying going on. So, maybe it's just the iPhone app version that has this occurring. On my PC, I use Windows Media Player.

[martsave martin s]

im using foobar2000 great player

[Glenn Stanton]

make sure (like your audio sound control panel settings) that ALL enhancements, effects, spatializing, bass boosting, media level normalization, cross fades, etc etc are all turned off in the playback app you're using. use some pink noise files to calibrate the playback throughout your system - through CwB, your media players, etc etc, run some pink noise videos via you tube to make sure your browser settings are ok as well - beware that youtube is at most stereo so checking surround settings via youtube is not happening :-))

once you have ALL your in-house systems all having the same levels and approx the same frequency response, you can then make a reasonable assumption that once you hear the material on other systems or environments, that that is the influencing factor(s), and now you can work on translation issues effectively.

definitely recommend using REW and a sound level meter to set everything up. definitely recommend fixing any egregious room response in case you're finding that the room is completely hammering your ability to hear things evenly. in small places and low volume levels you can probably get away with some minimal corner treatments to level the low end a bit.

also - move your subwoofer to get the best response. one trick - put the sub in your chair you monitor from, and run a 20-120hz sine sweep and move around on the floor (hands and knees) until you find a spot that has an even overall response, and put the sub there. not perfect but most times close enough and much better than simply placing it arbitrarily. worst case and no space - place it into a corner with about 12" (400mm) all around it, and adjust the volume to even it's level. this is 4pi space and will increase the level by 6db but at least it will be consistent.

for example, i set my highest volume setting (turning my speaker controller all the way up) to 85db across each pair of speakers and/or subs. so my main monitors (SP-5B) are stereo w/ minimal pro sub (Sony 500w) volume, my Bose 901's use full pro sub volume, my mono speaker (Avantone active Cube) w/o sub, pc speakers (JBL) w/ pc sub, and surround system (JBL 510/505) w/ full pro sub etc.

i use 20-20K pink noise @ -12db. all subs at 80hz x-over (using a CX-2310 crossover) (and some tricky wire/patch routing)

this way i get reasonably flat response from each system. and then i generally mix at middle volume (about 75db) and then switch to 1/3 (about 60db) and full (85db) and across at least 3 pairs of speakers and pro headphones (mf-50x) (which stay at @ 75db).

Edited September 20, 2020 by fossile

[John Vere]

This thread confuses me a bit. In my world if I make a mix in Cakewalk and export it to a wave file it is exactly the way It played in Cakewalk. 

I proof my wave files in a wave editor which are NOT going to screw with your settings. There I can also check the peak and RMS level,  top and tail , add a fade out etc. 

When I'm done I then convert to an MP3 and upload to Sound Cloud, Click or Reverbnation.  They always sound exactly the way they should.  

Wave editors are a must have for me in studio production.

I mostly use Wavelab Elements ( $100)  but I have many others that I also like to use for different things.  

For Batch converting to MP3 I like Gold Wave - free to try forever but I bought it anyhow.  $50   http://www.goldwave.ca/

Sony Sound Forge- This is part of my Vegas Movie studio set up and is a great editor. it comes free with lost of stuff. 

There's also Waveosaur   https://www.wavosaur.com/    free

Audacity    https://www.audacityteam.org/     free   

Acoustica https://acoustica.com/mixcraft      version 6 used to be free.  I really like this one a lot and will switch when I finally get fed up with Steinberg's elicence. 

[bitflipper]

The way I read the OP was that Mark was listening to the uploaded files using WMP and heard they'd been altered. Not realizing it was the player that had been messing with the file, he assumed something had gone awry with SoundCloud.

We've addressed similar issues many times. Usually it's in the form of "why doesn't my exported file sound the same as in Cakewalk?". The problem is that music players aren't designed for objective evaluation, but rather think it's their job to "improve" the sound (e.g. auto-normalization, boosting bass, etc.).

One player that doesn't do any such thing is the previously-recommended Foobar2000. There are plugins for it if you do want to alter the sound, but those are always intentionally applied by the user, never automatically. It's also handy for other things, such as editing metadata, batch normalization and format conversions.

You might want to also check out Boom. I haven't used it yet, but it purports to be a simple player.

[mark skinner]

Yes , my problem has been with playback on a laptop. Everything is fine on my studio pc regardless of how It's played  or with using different speakers and headphones. Using an interface solved the problem , but afterwards I found a "Beats Audio" app that apparently came with the laptop . It's gone now.      Thanks for the feedback ...   mark

[Starise]

Not sure if it really matters but you don't really need an mp3 for upload to SC.  I almost always upload a wav file.  SC will then convert to mp3. Also you can then download it as a wav later on. Not sure if this is SC subscription dependent or not? Might only apply to the higher tiers. If you upload as mp3 that's all you'll get for downloads.

[mark skinner]

@StariseI always upload wav files at 24 or 32 bit. I have since read SC recommends 16 bit at 48khz.  I actually couldn't get rid of the Beats audio software . I mentioned Dell but it's actually HP with beats speakers and software built in.  All the enhancements have been turned off.  I downloaded the Foobar player thanks to comments by Martin s and bitflipper. Seems like a good one , but all 3 players I've used have the same problem. I like the laptop because of the giant screen  , but Nothing has fixed this problem except for using an interface when I need to get critical about sound quality.  Not a big problem , it's under the couch when I need it.    mark

[bitflipper]

22 hours ago, Starise said:

Not sure if it really matters but you don't really need an mp3 for upload to SC.  I almost always upload a wav file.  SC will then convert to mp3. Also you can then download it as a wav later on. Not sure if this is SC subscription dependent or not? Might only apply to the higher tiers. If you upload as mp3 that's all you'll get for downloads.

I do the same thing, but with FLAC files. No data is lost when the hosting site creates the MP3 version for streaming, but upload times are half that of a wav.

AFAIK SC was the first to allow wav uploads and raise file size limits on a free account. Since then, others (e.g. SoundClick) have followed suit. Competition has also spurred them to raise the streaming bitrate from 128 to 192 Kb/s and increase the number of format options for downloads. SC led the way there, too.