Need Help with Routing and TAL Vocoder

[razor7music]

Hello All

I watched a YT video that showed routing the midi track out to TAL, but when open the midi track out, the TAL plugin isn't an option.

I inserted the TAL plugin into the audio track that I want to effect, but I still don't see a way to route the midi track to TAL.

Any help is appreciated!

[Nigel Mackay]

I presume you are talking about one of their synthesisers.

You cannot add a MIDI track and think you can route it to any synth/instrument that you have. You must first add the synth to the project, and only then you can route a MIDI track to it.

There is more than one way to add a synth/instrument, but this is the closest to what you describe:
Create a new blank project.
From the Browser drag the TAL synthesiser to the track pane.
In the dialog, select MIDI source and First Synth Audio Output.
You will have an instrument-audio track and a MIDI track.
Click on the MIDI track.
Open the Inspector. (Views -> Inspector.)
Look right at the bottom of the left-hand channel strip.
O (output) will be routed to the synth. Whichever one you added. (The name can be abbreviated a bit, but you will recognise it.)

If you want to route the MIDI to a different synth/instrument add it to the project. Then you can route the MIDI track to it.

By the way, when you add things to an audio track, you add effects. Reverbs, equalisers, compressors and the like. They go onto audio tracks that already have audio in them to change the audio.

 

 

 

[scook]

IIRC, TAL Vocoder scans as an effect so use option 2

 

 

[razor7music]

16 minutes ago, scook said:

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Oops, I left a mess!

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by razor7music

[razor7music]

4 hours ago, Nigel Mackay said:

I presume you are talking about one of their synthesisers.

You cannot add a MIDI track and think you can route it to any synth/instrument that you have. You must first add the synth to the project, and only then you can route a MIDI track to it.

There is more than one way to add a synth/instrument, but this is the closest to what you describe:
Create a new blank project.
From the Browser drag the TAL synthesiser to the track pane.
In the dialog, select MIDI source and First Synth Audio Output.
You will have an instrument-audio track and a MIDI track.
Click on the MIDI track.
Open the Inspector. (Views -> Inspector.)
Look right at the bottom of the left-hand channel strip.
O (output) will be routed to the synth. Whichever one you added. (The name can be abbreviated a bit, but you will recognise it.)

If you want to route the MIDI to a different synth/instrument add it to the project. Then you can route the MIDI track to it.

By the way, when you add things to an audio track, you add effects. Reverbs, equalisers, compressors and the like. They go onto audio tracks that already have audio in them to change the audio.

 

 

 

Thanks, but no. I'm not referring to a synth. Vocoders are a unique animal where a midi signal powers the effect on audio tracks. They are an audio effect.

[razor7music]

15 minutes ago, scook said:

IIRC, TAL Vocoder scans as an effect so use option 2

 

 

Thanks @scook I'll check it out.

[razor7music]

Looks like I missed the vst enable midi in and out setting.

 

Thanks! 

[scook]

Yeah, now that you mention it, the vocoder only has a "MIDI in" option but it is off by default too. The link discusses MIDI output but the idea is similar.

The MIDI I/O options on the standard header VST drop down control whether a plug-in shows up in MIDI input and output drop downs. Effects and synths have different defaults for these options.

[razor7music]

45 minutes ago, scook said:

Yeah, now that you mention it, the vocoder only has a "MIDI in" option but it is off by default too. The link discusses MIDI output but the idea is similar.

The MIDI I/O options on the standard header VST drop down control whether a plug-in shows up in MIDI input and output drop downs. Effects and synths have different defaults for these options.

Very cool. I'm in studio now and it worked great. Thanks again.

BTW - on the VST3 version of TAL Vocoder 2 that I have, a MIDI out option is not available in the dropdown. You don't really need it, I guess.

[scook]

Really?

I just updated to v2.1.3 from

https://tal-software.com/products/tal-vocoder

The website shows v2.1.2 but the plug-ins reports v2.1.3

and it has "Enable MIDI Out" disabled

 

MIDI Out is not needed for the vocoder. It uses MIDI data to control the plug-in but does not have to generate or pass through MIDI data.

 

[razor7music]

3 hours ago, scook said:

Really?

I just updated to v2.1.3 from

https://tal-software.com/products/tal-vocoder

The website shows v2.1.2 but the plug-ins reports v2.1.3

and it has "Enable MIDI Out" disabled

 

MIDI Out is not needed for the vocoder. It uses MIDI data to control the plug-in but does not have to generate or pass through MIDI data.

 

I think we're saying the same thing. There is no midi out option available.

[scook]

Yeah I misread your post.

 

[Starship Krupa]

TAL- Vocoder II is the only vocoder I've ever gotten to work. Until iZotope and Pluginboutique put VocalSynth up for $9.99, it's my jam.

One thing I'd like to be able to do is use something other than the internal synth as a carrier. I've tried a few times and always had to fall back to their internal synth, which is great for its purpose, but still, I'd like to be able to feed it other sounds.

If anyone has successfully worked out the routing, please let me know.

[scook]

44 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

One thing I'd like to be able to do is use something other than the internal synth as a carrier. I've tried a few times and always had to fall back to their internal synth, which is great for its purpose, but still, I'd like to be able to feed it other sounds.

Try this

• With the vocoder in the audio track FX rack enable the INPUT MODE ON and SC button in the vocoder UI
• Add an instrument track with the output set to the vocoder side channel and enable input echo
• Start the transport
• Play the synth

[MG_privat]

Hi,

I'm not also not able to get TAL Vocoder2 working.

I have found small tutorial on YT, but not detailed enough for me.

As a beginner, it is at the moment difficult to understand what that routing works, for the effects.

I have a short audio file insert on line 1 and should create a midi on line 2, and then I'm lost.

Will try it tomorrow again.

Best regards,

Mark

[Nigel Mackay]

Link to the video. And where does it fail you? Which bits in video do you succeed with?

[razor7music]

14 hours ago, MG_privat said:

Hi,

I'm not also not able to get TAL Vocoder2 working.

I have found small tutorial on YT, but not detailed enough for me.

As a beginner, it is at the moment difficult to understand what that routing works, for the effects.

I have a short audio file insert on line 1 and should create a midi on line 2, and then I'm lost.

Will try it tomorrow again.

Best regards,

Mark

The routing is decribed in the above thread, but what I had an issue with was knowing I had to go up in the VST3 drop down in the plug-in itself and change that to allow 'midi in'

[MG_privat]

YES! That was the problem. VST3 drop down an set Midi in.

Great! Thank you!!!

Best regards,

Mark

[Starship Krupa]

I finally fully grasped how routing works in TAL Vocoder-11, so posting it here as a public service.

The basic concept of a vocoder is that you're using one audio signal to modulate another. It's a form of sidechaining, you have one audio source and you're using another one to affect it. The audio signal being affected is the "carrier" and the one affecting it is the "modulator." Many vocoders, including hardware ones, include simple internal synths to use as a carrier. TV-11 has one, but may be used in a way where you may disable the internal synth and feed it both audio signals.

My initial confusion with TV-II was that in order to use it with its internal synth, you set it up backward from the usual sidechain arrangement. The plug-in is installed on the modulator track, not the track actually being modulated. That was the biggest thing to get my head around.

There are two ways to use it.

1. You want to use its internal synth (as the "carrier") with other audio controlling it (as the "modulator," traditionally a vocal). This is fine for the bread-and-butter Tupac/Daft Punk effect where you want a "robot voice."

2. You want to feed it carrier from your own synth track, and another audio track as modulator. This was my ultimate goal with a vocoder, because I want to use breathier pads for the synth input than the TAL Vocoder's simple internal synth is capable of. More Kraftwerk "Autobahn" than Tupac "California."

So, we'll start with case 1.

1. Start with a MIDI track with the notes you want to send the synth, and an audio track you want to use to modulate it (usually a vocal).
2. Insert TV-II as an effect on the audio (modulator) track.
3. In the plug-in UI, at the top, enable MIDI input.
4.  Go to the MIDI track and set its output to TAL Vocoder.

That's it. Now, you'll have to fiddle with the controls in the plug-in, adjust the synth to get a sound you like, etc., but the routing will be set up.

(The confusing part here is that you're inserting the plug-in on the modulator track, not the carrier. That's what I mean by backward.)

For case 2., you'll be using a stereo bus. You will be sending audio only, not MIDI, to the plug-in.

1. Create a stereo bus. Name it "Vocoder."
2. Insert TV-II as an effect on the bus.
3. Click the button in the plug-in UI that's labeled "Input Mode On."
4. In the audio/synth tracks you wish to use, create sends to "TAL-Vocoder-2." Set the sends to Pre-Fader.
5.  Pan the send on the track you wish to use as the "carrier" to hard left. Pan the send from the "modulator" to hard right.
6. To mute the dry sound from the carrier and modulator, just pull their faders down. If you want some dry sound, bring them up

There are alternate ways to accomplish case 2, but this is the easiest I've found. Send a nice hot signal from the modulator to the right input of TV-11 and again, do some fiddling with the vocoder controls. The internal synth is inactive in this mode, so leave it alone.

General tips for vocoding: on your modulator track (usually voice) fire up a good 1176 emulation, set it to 12:1 and smash the snot out of the signal before sending it to the vocoder. Also, if using a vocal, a tuning correction/pitch changing plug-in can add another dimension. I use Meldaproduction MAutoPitch on the "Man To Woman" setting to bring my voice up, and set it so that it "glitches" a little bit. Feed the vocoder a nice, hot modulator signal.