Any other option than a linked clip to duplicate MIDI to another Track?

[JohnK]

I would like to duplicate the midi notes (not the bank changes or envelopes etc) to another track, so as to have two different VSTi's playing the same passage. The same as putting a linked clip onto the other track. I would prefer not to have a linked clip, as I am actually hoping to do it across many tracks, and I personally find the extra clips to be harder keep track of, and just visually messy.

I have read about how some VSTi's actually have a MIDI out, that can be routed as the MIDI input into another track. That sounds like it would enable what I wish to achieve. It seems to me it would be possibly enabled via an insert-able midi FX.

Does anyone know if cakewalk can do the above already, or it already has, or there is a third party insert-able MIDI FX providing this functionality?

[JohnK]

OK, for those not following the other thread, I have found out what I was doing wrong (in regards to MIDI out). You can see the details at

There is also a very utilitarian VST for doing it (MIDI Out Filter).

[Nigel Mackay]

Some VSTis have MIDI out. Lots don't . If you insert a VSTi, open the VST GUI, and click on the dropdown VST2/VST3 it shows whether or not Midi out can be enabled. If it can, and you enable it, it will be listed as an available input on a MIDI track.

[scook]

Create a master MIDI track and send the output to a virtual MIDI cable.

Use the virtual MIDI cable as the input for the synth instrument/MIDI tracks.

I use LoopBe1 for this.

 

 

[Noel Borthwick]

You can use a drum map to set this up by assigning the entire note range to different instruments.

[scook]

Yes, a drum map works well as keyboard splitter but restricts notes to a single output.

Now if a drum map could send notes to multiple targets....

 

[Kurre]

Am i missing something? The answers seem unnecessary complicated?

The thread starter mentions "...to have two different VSTi's playing the same passage".

If i have a miditrack with a midimelody routed to an instrument track with a softsynth i make a new instrumenttrack with another softsynth and copy the miditrack to this new track. Alternative copy to a new miditrack and route that to the new track/synth.

Just drag the midiclip to align with the original in the timeline.

You can also copy a part of the original midifile to the new track and align it. Then it only plays that bit with the second softsynth.

As usual i came up with a bit more right after submitting post.

If you have cc values it copies those too so you have to delete those in the second track if you don't want them.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Kurre
Addition.

[scook]

It is easier than that if no changes will be made to the data. Set both synths to record at the same time. No copies, no extra routing needed.

But, if one want to change the data and keep it consistent across multiple synths, links clips or a virtual MIDI cable can save a lot of time and effort.

 

 

[JohnK]

12 hours ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Some VSTis have MIDI out. Lots don't . If you insert a VSTi, open the VST GUI, and click on the dropdown VST2/VST3 it shows whether or not Midi out can be enabled. If it can, and you enable it, it will be listed as an available input on a MIDI track.

I dont think my VSTi's have MIDI out, and I am, unclear if you are suggesting the 'dropdown" mimics this? 

I am even unclear of which dropdown you are talking about to check. Ar you talking about this one?

If so, I do not see an option to send MIDI out as something to act as a MIDI in on another track.

[JohnK]

10 hours ago, scook said:

Create a master MIDI track and send the output to a virtual MIDI cable.

Use the virtual MIDI cable as the input for the synth instrument/MIDI tracks.

I use LoopBe1 for this.

hmm..typed a post and lost it! lets start again.

I read your link, and it looks like it could solve the problem, but I do not like the idea of installing another component. My computer is firstly for work and music is a hobby. I think I would prefer to use the linked clip over the third party component.

[JohnK]

A drummap doesn't sound like it would work for multiple outs, so it doesn't solve my requirements. I explicitly mentioned wanting to send it to multiple tracks.

[JohnK]

9 hours ago, Kurre said:

Am i missing something? The answers seem unnecessary complicated?

The thread starter mentions "...to have two different VSTi's playing the same passage".

If i have a miditrack with a midimelody routed to an instrument track with a softsynth i make a new instrumenttrack with another softsynth and copy the miditrack to this new track. Alternative copy to a new miditrack and route that to the new track/synth.

Just drag the midiclip to align with the original in the timeline.

You can also copy a part of the original midifile to the new track and align it. Then it only plays that bit with the second softsynth.

As usual i came up with a bit more right after submitting post.

If you have cc values it copies those too so you have to delete those in the second track if you don't want them.

I think you missed the title of the thread. I explicitly ask for something other than linked clips. If I understand what you are proposing, it is a linked clip.

[scook]

12 minutes ago, JohnK said:

I dont think my VSTi's have MIDI out, and I am, unclear if you are suggesting the 'dropdown" mimics this? 

I am even unclear of which dropdown you are talking about to check. Ar you talking about this one?

If so, I do not see an option to send MIDI out as something to act as a MIDI in on another track.

32bit plug-ins must be bridged to run in a 64bit host.

This image shows a plug-in running in BitBridge.

The VST2 drop down is on the standard header.

Plug-ins running in BitBridge have a separate window for the standard header.

To open the standard header hold down the ALT key when inserting the plug-in or opening its UI.

The standard header window usually opens behind the plug-in UI.

 

That said, a decade ago was a good time to start looking for a 64bit replacement plug-in. Continuing to rely on plug-ins the manufacturer abandoned years ago is not a good idea.

 

 

[JohnK]

19 minutes ago, scook said:

32bit plug-ins must be bridged to run in a 64bit host.

This image shows a plug-in running in BitBridge.

The VST2 drop down is on the standard header.

Plug-ins running in BitBridge have a separate window for the standard header.

To open the standard header hold down the ALT key when inserting the plug-in or opening its UI.

The standard header window usually opens behind the plug-in UI.

 

That said, a decade ago was a good time to start looking for a 64bit replacement plug-in. Continuing to rely on plug-ins the manufacturer abandoned years ago is not a good idea.

If you are talking about the "MIDI out" of this image, its disabled.

As for not using 32b plugins, that would be like not using an early mooog because its not built with saving patches. And it is WELL outside of the topic.

Edited August 28, 2020 by JohnK

[scook]

4 minutes ago, JohnK said:

As for not using 32b plugins, that would be like not using an early mooog because its not built with saving patches. And it is WELL outside of the topic.

Comparing software solutions to hardware is not an apt analogy but do not worry now that I recognize the user name change I can ignore the posts.

Good luck.

[Nigel Mackay]

You are correct, the XG plugin does not have MIDI out. Relying on MIDI out limits you to which synths you can use. If you don't want liked clips then LoopBe is the only other solution. And it is a very small piece of software. Really small.

[scook]

15 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

If you don't want liked clips then LoopBe is the only other solution.

Not quite but it is a good one...possibly with the lowest latency.

I use Voltage Modular's MIDI routing for certain applications. Reaktor and other synths could work too. When using a synth instead of a virtual MIDI cable it is necessary to provide a complete routing (IOW an instrument track or audio+MIDI track pair) for the plug-in even though its audio output may not be used or even exist. Failing to provide a complete routing results in no MIDI data being sent from the plug-in.

[JohnK]

1 hour ago, Nigel Mackay said:

You are correct, the XG plugin does not have MIDI out. Relying on MIDI out limits you to which synths you can use. If you don't want liked clips then LoopBe is the only other solution. And it is a very small piece of software. Really small.

Thanks for confirming I wasn't missing something right in front of my eyes!

I understand LoopBe is tiny, but I use my computer for a number of other  things, and if I decided to install little components for each of them, my computer setup would become a mess. I draw the line, and am hoping to achieve it within Cakewalk. Size is not an issue, I am not saying LoopBe is, but a virus is probably the smallest piece of code you will find. Its the thin edge of the wedge. I would go with linked clips over the extra install. A personal call, but mine.

I had another idea. If I find a simple VSTi that DOES have MIDI out, I could put my shared MIDI stuff on that track (ie the notes) and use the MIDI output from that as the MIDI input into the other tracks, which also have the specifics for each "copy"; i.e. volume, patch, synth routing etc etc. but I tried, and I failed.

Am I not understanding the concept? or am I doing something wrong here?

I have:
1. Turned on MIDI out from the MIDI source synth (Hypersonic in this case)
2. Created a MIDI track for MIDI channel 1, with some notes, and it plays
3. Created another MIDI track, assigned to another channel of Hypersonic, with the MIDI in being Hypersonic MIDI Channel 1 (I also tried OMNI for in) I kept the channels the same in case some kind of filtering was happening.

It did not work.

I also tried adding a new instance of TTS-1, listening to the MIDI out of Hypersonic Ch1, and chose the out of the MIDI track to be CH1, and still no output from TTS1 ie the destination.

Can anyone see where I am going wrong? In the below images, I tried patching MIDI CH1 from Hypersonic through to CH1 of TTS

As you can see, I have 3 notes going to Hypersonic on a drum patch (which plays) and using that MIDI out as a MIDI in to TTS with an organ sound; ie so it would sound very different to the percussive sounds of Hypersonic's CH1

Edited August 28, 2020 by JohnK
spelling

[Nigel Mackay]

1 hour ago, scook said:

When using a synth instead of a virtual MIDI cable it is necessary to provide a complete routing (IOW an instrument track or audio+MIDI track pair) for the plug-in even though its audio output may not be used or even exist. Failing to provide a complete routing results in no MIDI data being sent from the plug-in.

Insert the Hypersonic as a Simple Instrument.
Enable MIDI Out.
Paste the MIDI data into it's track.
(You don't have to use the audio output of the Hypersonic. )
Do not route the MIDI back to the Hypersonic, that could cause feedback.

[JohnK]

5 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Insert the Hypersonic as a Simple Instrument.
Enable MIDI Out.
Paste the MIDI data into it's track.
(You don't have to use the audio output of the Hypersonic. )
Do not route the MIDI back to the Hypersonic, that could cause feedback.

I tried what I think you said, from scratch, and still it didnt work. This time obviously Hypersonic did not even play.

i create a MIDI out to hypersonic, as I have to route the original source to Hypersonic, for it to re-route it to its output, for me to reroute THAT as input on another VSTi's MIDI channel . Originally, I was careful not to route it to the same channel on the same instrument. And as you see in my last test of images, i did re-route it to a different VSTi. ie no chance of a loop.

The only difference in what you are suggesting, is that Hypersonic does not have an audio out track (which would be how I would run it). So, I could of taken my above example, and simply deleted the Hypersonic Audio out track?

I tried searching the help, but obviously did not use the correct keywords, or there is no example of achieving the above in the help.

[Nigel Mackay]

No. Read what it says - it must have coupled MIDI-audio tracks. Not using the Hypersonic audio means not routing the audio anywhere. Or taking the output fader right down.