FINALLY!

[studioguy1]

Well said, Craig.

 

[Keni]

Also note that most manufacturers require you to setup an account and include access to their' forums. Thanks ou need not use the forums.

As to installs? Bandlab Assistant is their' download manager. Tiny with little if any time/attention to install. It offers many tools other than that should you ever chose to use them.

 

[Noel Borthwick]

If the last time you used cakewalk was 20 years ago then you should be prepared to have a bit of a learning experience.

Have you used any current generation music software? Everyone has installers with optional components although some integrate it directly into the program (which is a good thing)

Prior to BandLab acquiring Cakewalk we had an installer called command center which was similar in principle to bandlab assistant though more sophisticated. It also allowed to install optional components (many more than what we do now)

Bandlab is the company that owns Cakewalk. To use the software the requirement is to create an account that established you as a user. Bandlab is also a powerful cloud platform for recording and sharing music using mobile devices it the web. It has  over 20 million users. There is no requirement to use that if you don't need it but it's free and available to any Cakewalk user.

In short by default we install the bare minimum for Cakewalk to run to save bandwidth. There is zero bloatware.

 

[aidan o driscoll]

Ken,

I feel that Cakewalk (or presumably Bandlab are the new owners) have done themselves a disservice. Can I really be blamed for suspecting a piece of software which has such a baffling installation route which obliges me to install and create an account on a social media platform that I don't want?

You do have a choice .. dont install Cakewalk at all, try another DAW instead? You mentioned you were away for 20 years so to speak. Well if you look at countless other software these days you will see the vast majority now use a utility like Bandlab Assistant to centralise the install and updating of that companies software. Other examples are Native Access for Native Instruments apps, Arturia Software Center for the Arturia plugs, Waves Central for the waves plugs .. the list goes on and on, its the way things are done now because unlike 20 years ago everything is now connected to the cloud/internet. Also handy in that you never need keep the bulky installation files into the future, simply use these portal type utilities to install wherever and whenever you like.

I can read. I got the list of titles with the checkboxes. I'm still at a complete loss, though, as to what any of these items are. It's undeniable that they have the odour, like so many other pieces of "free" software, of something which is trying to tag itself into an installer in the full knowledge that nobody ever reads the EULA!

If you HAD BEEN using Cakewalk more recently than 20 years ago when it was known as Sonar you would have ALSO had the option of installing these extras. The reason its an option is because different people use different things .. plugins etc. Its down to whether you see any use for these optional extras. You can always install them, check them out and if you dont likey go into your Windows Control Panel, Programs & Features and uninstall again. They are optional extras not core software.

If they're so great, why not just install them anyway as part of the package? As I say, I'm obliged to install Bandlab whether I want to or not.

Again they are optional extra's .. up to each user if they feel the need for them or not. As i said, install them, try them, if of no use uninstall them again. Like buying a car with the optionals, however in this case the optionals are FREE to you as is the car itself in this case.

The answer is twofold: The circuituitous route by which I had to obtain the software, and its having invited me to also add some previously unknown, and undescribed add-ins.

Many freeware authors also have sub installers and some of them are adware. That's not even  my point. These are titles meaningful only to people who have used them; meaningless to someone who's installing the software for the first time.

IF you were using Cakewalk way more recently than 20 years ago you would be well familiar with these "sub Installers" as you call them.

Also since 20 years ago the world of MIDI and Sequencer software ( now known as a DAW - Digital Audio Workstation ) has changed substantially. Almost to a point of being unrecognisable if you were to compare now and 20 years ago. BUT if you install the FREE Cakewalk NOW, it is up to you how much or how little of it YOU want to use. You can use just MIDI tracks as of old if you wish, but as I said things are far more advanced and richer now. So up to you whether you wish to embrace all this change or not .. as always YOUR CHOICE, no one is forcing you to install or not to install. 

With respect to the Bandlab Assistant utility which I explained a bit about above, It requires an account login, as this or any other forum requires. The same login you used for this forum is the one you use in the Bandlab Assistant utility. Once into that utility and seeming as it was BANDLAB who graciously took over Cakewalk from the brink of becoming no more .. they have sort of stitched it, as is there right into there Bandlab universe .. but as is with other things above, how much of the Bandlab part you want to use is thoroughly up to you. When in the Bandlab Assistant you can skip all the other bandlab related tabs and simply jump to the APPS tab and JUST install or update Cakewalk from there. You will not be troubled by Bandlab badgering you to use there online DAW or sample system, this has been the case from day one. BTW that bandlab online DAW and samples type thing is used by other companies these days .. an example is LOOPCLOUD who do something sort of similar ( i pay a tener a month for this BECAUSE I choose to use it ).

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by aidan o driscoll

[Bill Ruys]

13 hours ago, Ken McMullan said:

You all seem great and this is clearly a vibrant, helpful community...

Hey Ken,

Thanks for patronising us.  You are obviously way smarter than we are and can see where we have all gone wrong in our ignorance.  I suggest you go find another DAW that you trust.

Best of luck.

[Ken McMullan]

On 8/8/2020 at 10:27 AM, Hillmy said:

?

In fairness to myself, in my day, if I wanted a piece of software, I had to write it myself. Usually with a soldering iron. I can spot a piece of adware, and this has all the signatures.

[Ken McMullan]

On 8/8/2020 at 4:38 PM, Jonathan Sasor said:

which are readily available both in our documentation and many user driven tutorials docs that are out there. It's bonus content that used to be included with the paid versions of SONAR so that way you can use additional features immediately with Cakewalk by BandLab.

They're broken into separate installers because that means you don't have to download and install them every time you do a Cakewalk update. Or maybe you don't like virtual instruments and want to save the hard drive space? Drum Replacer could still be handy there if you want to beef up a part though. Some people like to make custom CbB themes, you'll find a bunch of them on this forum or there's Facebook groups of people who share their own custom themes. Other people don't have an interest to make their own, in which case, you don't need to install it. Melodyne is only a trial, but we leverage features from Melodyne for functions like tempo extraction which will work, even with the demo version. 

Not  sure I've ever needed to  read a documentation set BEFORE installing a piece of software. However, the rest of that information alone, as a pop-up tip or something would have been a superb step in the right direction, thanks.

I just don't expect to have to go and do that kind of reserch DURING the install. And your marketing people know that.

 

[Ken McMullan]

On 8/8/2020 at 2:18 PM, mark skinner said:

If you know how to use Google you can find out what "Anything" is ..   

Indeed. Do you often go research the meaning of the cryptic popup box in the middle of your software installs? I should think not. Nor should you have to.

[Ken McMullan]

On 8/8/2020 at 5:50 PM, kc23 said:

Then google this stuff and read. Newsflash: you are not unique in this world, others have had the same questions, although have expressed them in a polite and respectful manner... and they have been answered. So, go do your homework, instead of coming here complaining about and demanding stuff you ignore because you just don´t want to take the time to research about it. Want some help? start by helping yourself. Don´t like what´s being offered? then don´t install, nobody is forcing you.

Again, do you often Google the meaning of the popup boxes you get during a software install? I should think not. Most folk just click "Next" to get it over with. Bandlab Marketeers KNOW this.

This has all the hallmarks of a covert software deployment. I now know hat it isn't, but as you say, I'm not the only person who's been frustrated by it.

[Ken McMullan]

On 8/8/2020 at 6:50 PM, Craig Anderton said:

It's common practice for many software companies to make add-ons as separate installers. For example one DAW has around 20 GB of content. But maybe you already have Kontakt, SampleTank, and a ton of loops. I think it's considerate that you're not forced to download 20 GB of stuff when all you really want is the 180 MB DAW.

In return for using an installer that checks whether your version is up to date and gives the option to download optional plug-ins,  you get a highly capable DAW for free. I just don't see how anyone can have a problem with that. 

I completely agree. Which is why I was very tentative just to install these. Piggy-back installers can be a nightmare. So, when software authors are adding them, they should at least have a brief explanation of what they are, so the user doesn't have to stop what he's doing to go research a road block they weren't expecting to encounter.

I'm struggling to understand what folk are finding unreasonable about this.

[Ken McMullan]

23 hours ago, Bill Ruys said:

Hey Ken,

Thanks for patronising us.  You are obviously way smarter than we are and can see where we have all gone wrong in our ignorance.  I suggest you go find another DAW that you trust.

Best of luck.

Not sure which bit you chose to find patronising, but that wasn't my intention. What makes you think I know what a DAW is? I just know that Cakewalk has been (and still is) an excellent MIDI file editor. You repeat the presumption of the software developers that everyone knows all the terminology.

Just briefly put yourself in the shoes of someone who's never installed Cakewalk, but knows they'd like to get into computer music. You get partway through the installer and then ... oh, man what's THIS?

But hey, ignore my sentiment: I'm clearly a minority group. Just bear in mind, that I care enough to point out the folly; at personal expense.

[Hillmy]

I don't see why this thread is still open when it is clearly trolling ?

[User 905133]

I wrote the following two days ago, but didn't post it.  I'm still not sure. 

Quote

It is not clear if you ever got up and running with Cakewalk or if you are still being confounded by a process that's different than installing SONAR 20 years ago.

 

[Ken McMullan]

On 8/8/2020 at 10:10 PM, aidan o driscoll said:

Ken,

I feel that Cakewalk (or presumably Bandlab are the new owners) have done themselves a disservice. Can I really be blamed for suspecting a piece of software which has such a baffling installation route which obliges me to install and create an account on a social media platform that I don't want?

You do have a choice .. dont install Cakewalk at all, try another DAW instead? You mentioned you were away for 20 years so to speak. Well if you look at countless other software these days you will see the vast majority now use a utility like Bandlab Assistant to centralise the install and updating of that companies software. Other examples are Native Access for Native Instruments apps, Arturia Software Center for the Arturia plugs, Waves Central for the waves plugs .. the list goes on and on, its the way things are done now because unlike 20 years ago everything is now connected to the cloud/internet. Also handy in that you never need keep the bulky installation files into the future, simply use these portal type utilities to install wherever and whenever you like.

I can read. I got the list of titles with the checkboxes. I'm still at a complete loss, though, as to what any of these items are. It's undeniable that they have the odour, like so many other pieces of "free" software, of something which is trying to tag itself into an installer in the full knowledge that nobody ever reads the EULA!

If you HAD BEEN using Cakewalk more recently than 20 years ago when it was known as Sonar you would have ALSO had the option of installing these extras. The reason its an option is because different people use different things .. plugins etc. Its down to whether you see any use for these optional extras. You can always install them, check them out and if you dont likey go into your Windows Control Panel, Programs & Features and uninstall again. They are optional extras not core software.

If they're so great, why not just install them anyway as part of the package? As I say, I'm obliged to install Bandlab whether I want to or not.

Again they are optional extra's .. up to each user if they feel the need for them or not. As i said, install them, try them, if of no use uninstall them again. Like buying a car with the optionals, however in this case the optionals are FREE to you as is the car itself in this case.

The answer is twofold: The circuituitous route by which I had to obtain the software, and its having invited me to also add some previously unknown, and undescribed add-ins.

Many freeware authors also have sub installers and some of them are adware. That's not even  my point. These are titles meaningful only to people who have used them; meaningless to someone who's installing the software for the first time.

IF you were using Cakewalk way more recently than 20 years ago you would be well familiar with these "sub Installers" as you call them.

Also since 20 years ago the world of MIDI and Sequencer software ( now known as a DAW - Digital Audio Workstation ) has changed substantially. Almost to a point of being unrecognisable if you were to compare now and 20 years ago. BUT if you install the FREE Cakewalk NOW, it is up to you how much or how little of it YOU want to use. You can use just MIDI tracks as of old if you wish, but as I said things are far more advanced and richer now. So up to you whether you wish to embrace all this change or not .. as always YOUR CHOICE, no one is forcing you to install or not to install. 

With respect to the Bandlab Assistant utility which I explained a bit about above, It requires an account login, as this or any other forum requires. The same login you used for this forum is the one you use in the Bandlab Assistant utility. Once into that utility and seeming as it was BANDLAB who graciously took over Cakewalk from the brink of becoming no more .. they have sort of stitched it, as is there right into there Bandlab universe .. but as is with other things above, how much of the Bandlab part you want to use is thoroughly up to you. When in the Bandlab Assistant you can skip all the other bandlab related tabs and simply jump to the APPS tab and JUST install or update Cakewalk from there. You will not be troubled by Bandlab badgering you to use there online DAW or sample system, this has been the case from day one. BTW that bandlab online DAW and samples type thing is used by other companies these days .. an example is LOOPCLOUD who do something sort of similar ( i pay a tener a month for this BECAUSE I choose to use it ).

 

I can confirm that countless software packages do, indeed use this underhand method of piggy-backing other installers, and I'm all to familiar with them. I trust youre' speaking of audio software. Something of which I have no recent experience. Such underhand methods are countless, but thankfully still a minority, and the practice is frowned upon. As it happens, the Cakewalk add-ons were not unrelated packages. They purely looked that way. I can only repeat my concern. They look like tag-ons. They have all the hallmarks of something (potentially malicious) which shouldn't be there.

Couple this with the suspicions which were on high alert due to the fact that I was fist forced to install and create an account on a social media platform, and you have every single signature of something underhand.

Set aside the fact that the newbie doesn't necessarily want to stop in the middle of the installer to go and Google things which should be self-evident.

I really don't mind if my opinion counts or not. If I'm alone in this, then I'm alone, but I wonder how many potential users have given up because they got suspicious of being forced to create another online account, or because they thought they were being asked to install a piece of additional software which came with no explanatory notes?

Incidentally, I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to expand "DAW". I much prefer this approach to the assumption that everyone already knows all the lingo. Your email is an excellent one and 80% of its content should be a "Help" button or a pop-up for the uninitiated within the installer.

[Ken McMullan]

16 minutes ago, Hillmy said:

I don't see why this thread is still open when it is clearly trolling ?

For my [art, the thread is 100% factual. I have listed several shortcomings in the install process which may be terribly offputting for new users. I hope I've done a good thing here.  Cakewalk is a superb piece of software and its support community is clearly a knowledgeable one, generous with its time. I would HATE the thought that any potential user be dissuaded by the installer because they thought it was harbouring something they might not want on their computer. With that fact, do what you will. I simply care enough to defend an opinion.

[aidan o driscoll]

47 minutes ago, Ken McMullan said:

I can confirm that countless software packages do, indeed use this underhand method of piggy-backing other installers, and I'm all to familiar with them. I trust youre' speaking of audio software. Something of which I have no recent experience. Such underhand methods are countless, but thankfully still a minority, and the practice is frowned upon. As it happens, the Cakewalk add-ons were not unrelated packages. They purely looked that way. I can only repeat my concern. They look like tag-ons. They have all the hallmarks of something (potentially malicious) which shouldn't be there.

Couple this with the suspicions which were on high alert due to the fact that I was fist forced to install and create an account on a social media platform, and you have every single signature of something underhand.

Set aside the fact that the newbie doesn't necessarily want to stop in the middle of the installer to go and Google things which should be self-evident.

I really don't mind if my opinion counts or not. If I'm alone in this, then I'm alone, but I wonder how many potential users have given up because they got suspicious of being forced to create another online account, or because they thought they were being asked to install a piece of additional software which came with no explanatory notes?

Incidentally, I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to expand "DAW". I much prefer this approach to the assumption that everyone already knows all the lingo. Your email is an excellent one and 80% of its content should be a "Help" button or a pop-up for the uninitiated within the installer.

Ken, keep in mind some more history that I sort of mentioned and will expand on now. Only for Bandlab rescuing CW from GIBSON ( which was not a match made in heaven at all and was touch and go for a good while in fact, where many CW users had to go looking for other DAWs before the bandlab intervention as Gibson were pretty much going to drop it and effectively bury it forever ) you or I would not be here getting what we previously would have had to pay lots of cash for but are now getting it free. A pro DAW ( Digital Audio Workstation ) for nothing .. which up to a few years ago and since the 90s I paid for. I have no gripes with this, i am just very happy that Bandlab kept CW alive ( and icing on the cake is they are constantly updating it SEPARATE FROM BANDLAB own products ) and I dont begrudge them us using a UTILITY with there own audio platform + cakewalk for that reason. I would say something if they were forcing me to use Bandlabs own audio platform online or changing / morphing CW into there own software ( they are not ) or if they were constantly emailing me and badgering me, they do not. In fact I have not got one single marketing email from them trying to get me to use there other products. 

Bandlab are not a social media platform, Im not sure where you are getting that idea from. If you look you will find they have an online DAW so to speak where beginners particularly or casual users can drag drop samples online to create tracks online. There is a bit of integration of this into Cakewalk via import if you want, but not compulsory.

CW is no longer just for MIDI, but it can be if you want, ignore the rest. The phrase DAW / Digital Audio Workstation years back came to the fore as an expansion on the word Sequencer which generally just meant MIDI only really in the early days. CW now handles recording Audio and / or importing samples to tracks along side your midi tracks. Its the audio samples end that Bandlabs other business is involved with and also as I mentioned, loopcloud. Instead of back in the day having a harddrive full of space eating samples NOW new cloud services are arising like Bandlab and Loopcloud where you can subscribe monthly, yearly and load these samples directly into your DAW from your cloud space where your samples are now stored vs on your Harddrive. Again I find no issue with this, it makes good use of the cloud concept.

Another good use of the cloud as is the case with Bandlabs own offering is it allows amateurs and pro's alike to collaborate in the cloud with your tracks IF YOU WISH, so now you are expanding your base of potential partner muso's in a project beyond your own area and all online.

SO tbh Ken ... your issues noted, its still back to your choice whether to use CW in its present form or not, it was either that OR cakewalk NO MORE. As for many others having an issue with the Bandlab Assistant Utility in general, I would very much doubt that ( people might have functionality issues ok, but Bandlab seem to respond to these ) .. as I said its the new way of doing things and again, personally I have no issue with it, in fact for me it simplifies things .. but hey thats just me!!

PS - Not alone did Bandlab rescue Cakewalk out of the fire, they pretty much also kept most of the original crew of developers in work right up to this day. Some of them have responded to your thread if you look at the sigs of the replies

Edited August 9, 2020 by aidan o driscoll

[User 905133]

32 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

I wrote the following two days ago, but didn't post it.  I'm still not sure. 

Quote

It is not clear if you ever got up and running with Cakewalk or if you are still being confounded by a process that's different than installing SONAR 20 years ago.

 

In another thread, on another matter, I wrote the following:

5 hours ago, User 905133 said:

As a long-time user I just wish that people who have been away for 10-15-20 years or more, people who come from using other DAWs, people who are having frustrations, etc. were to appreciate the continued responsiveness and to all of the improvements and new features and not cop an angry / belligerent / hostile attitude.  Yes, sometimes its a cultural / language issue, but sometimes frustration-expressed-as-anger is overwhelming.

Kudos to staff and users who treat comments with respect--even when some of us might want to hold up a mirror to the hostile comments.

Personally, while I think additional improvements in the download / update installation process are possible and while difficulties and frustrations with all things technological are inevitable, I think (1) you could have made your initial point with less drama and (2) you could be less reactive -- so could some of the people who held up the anger / hostility mirror to you.  Just my opinion.

You might not be aware that over a span of several months a number of people expressed issues with the need to have their DAW Computer online in order to update Cakewalk.  The result was an off-line activation procedure.

 

[tonemangler]

15 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

Personally, while I think additional improvements in the download / update installation process are possible and while difficulties and frustrations with all things technological are inevitable, I think (1) you could have made your initial point with less drama and (2) you could be less reactive -- so could some of the people who held up the anger / hostility mirror to you.  Just my opinion.

After reading this thread this was my exact thought, I was going to make a similar comment but your post is much more eloquent.  

[mark skinner]

Ken , I wish you all the best in your musical endeavors , and I totally agree , You Shouldn't use Any type of social media .           I'm out of this one ..

[Mánibranðr Studios]

To be fair, Bandlab could use a lot of improvement when it comes to how it previews, downloads and manages loops from the cloud. I'd like to be able to preview loops without having to download them, be able to choose lossless formats when I do decide to download, be able to batch download an entire pack, and decide where it downloads instead of it being hardcoded to download to the documents folder in the C : Drive.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Freyja Grimaude-Valens