[CLOSED] Cakewalk 2020.07 Early Access

[Olaf]

On 7/26/2020 at 3:35 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

@Olaf thanks for talking the time to document your issues. We are definitely concerned with the essentials more than anything else so would like to work with you to get to the bottom of some of your problems. Some of them appear to be third party issues wife they are not the norm one what we see.

Contact me via pm and we can look at some of these problems in more detail.

@Noel Borthwick

Thanks Noel, I will. But if that's the starting premise, I doubt we will solve much of anything. For that to happen we need to start looking at the cause first. These are problems (part of many - like plugins in the FX rack - CLA MixHub, being the latest experience - rack spontaneously starting working, until they are replaced, just like Console Emulators sometimes to in the PC) that only happen in CW. If we blame the plugin, we might deceive ourselves to feel better in the short term, but the problem is not going to go away, and will still be there until we address it.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Olaf

[Olaf]

11 hours ago, Michael Wells said:

I can't thank you enough for fixing both the "stoppage" when I copy FX from one channel to another and assigning outputs while the DAW is running.  Not only that but you also fixed the problem that while the DAW is running I could  not get it to stop when hitting the space bar. It would run until the graphics caught up with the stop command and sometimes it wouldn't stop until the song was finished playing. GOD BLESS YOU !!! Keep up the good work because I do this professionally (28 years) and I've used Cakewalk Sonar since 1994 and these past problems had me looking at other DAWS to replace you. I currently use Cakewalk exclusively for all my projects because of the way it sounds and functions. You should research the article regarding Terry Howard and Ray Charles. He wouldn't use digital recording because he didn't like the sound and he had very critical tastes when it came to making his records. HE could hear the difference and chose only Cakewalk (Sonar) to work with after audutioning All of the major DAWS available. Again, Thank you so much

Michael Wells

Engineer/Producer/Musician

Yeah, I like the way CW sounds, too. Also the options, and the interface. I just wish it worked predictably and without glitches.

[Olaf]

On 7/26/2020 at 10:10 PM, Mario Branchi said:

I agree with you on both points.

I can't understand, for example, why the smart tool works differently in the PRV and the Staff View. To delete a note in the PRV you have to right-click on it, while right-clicking in Staff View brings up the Note Properties window. To show the Note Properties Window in PRV, you have to double click on a note, which does nothing in Staff View.

In 2020.07, despite the advancements in Staff View, to create a note in PRV you have to double click or click-drag with the left mouse button, while in Staff View you just have to single click, which, by the way, doesn't clear the selection as it does in PRV.

Right-clicking should be reserved to the context menu, since it's standard Windows behaviour and lasso-selecting should be done with a left-click.

In my opinion, a good choice for both editors could be:

left double click: create note/delete note

left click on a note: select the note

left click on empty space: clear selection

left click and drag: lasso select

right click: show the context menu

I agree with you. I didn't know that about the Staff View, but it's a good extra example of what I was saying. The behavior should be consistent, and these commands are standard in all Windows environments, and other DAWs, too. That's the way I see it, too. Additionally, in the PRV, left double click and drag: draw custom length note - draw custom length note is good, we should just clear right click for contextual menus, and move selecting to left click lassoing.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Olaf

[John Bradley]

That's nice and all, but if you want to rebind the mouse operation to be more in line with how other DAWs do things, then kindly go use those other DAWs and leave Cakewalk alone. I live in the PRV, and don't need 20+ years of muscle memory broken just to have my DAW behave more like some other things that I don't use nor care about.

Sort of like how the idiots doing Photoshop development these days just arbitrarily decided one day "hey, scaling by dragging a handle should be proportional by default, and shift-dragging should be 'freeform' -- the complete opposite of how it had been since forever". It was a move that didn't much matter to new users either way, and royally POed all their loyal 'power users'.

[John Bradley]

That said, do whatever you want to the Staff view. I don't use it, and those who do seem to think it's broken already. At least, the vocal ones on this forum.

[Noel Borthwick]

15 hours ago, User 905133 said:

I want to make sure I understand this.  (1) Are you are saying that Workspaces are no longer as flexible as they were? (2) Are you saying that the new Worskpaces mean previous Workspaces will no longer give me what I want? (3) Are you saying that (among other things) these will no longer be saved and/or restored via customized Workspaces (all areas boxed in, not just Meter Options):

In other words, for example, if I have some Workspaces that use vertical track meters and other that use horizontal track meters, I will no longer have this flexibility after 2020.05?

 

Not at all. The only change is that you now have a choice to auto apply the selected workspace when loading a project or not.
Unlike screensets workspaces are global, so we thought it was best for the user experience to give the user control over whether they should be applied automatically or not. This was in response to some users getting confused with why per project settings didn't appear to save (they were actually saved as before but the currently selected workspace would override them on next open of the project. This is no other behavior change.

[Noel Borthwick]

2 hours ago, Olaf said:

@Noel Borthwick

Thanks Noel, I will. But if that's the starting premise, I doubt we will solve much of anything. For that to happen we need to start looking at the cause first. These are problems (part of many - like plugins in the FX rack - CLA MixHub, being the latest experience - rack spontaneously starting working, until they are replaced, just like Console Emulators sometimes to in the PC) that only happen in CW. If we blame the plugin, we might deceive ourselves to feel better in the short term, but the problem is not going to go away, and will still be there until we address it.

How do you know whether we will solve it or not before you have even given us a case to try and reproduce? We need to understand exactly what is happening in your case. We routinely use Waves plugins and I deal with the Waves engineering team directly and they have not reported this to be an issue as well. 
If it is related to a specific workflow that triggers this we need to understand exactly what is causing it. The best way to to get to the bottom of this is to work with us directly.

[Brian Walton]

1 hour ago, John Bradley said:

That's nice and all, but if you want to rebind the mouse operation to be more in line with how other DAWs do things, then kindly go use those other DAWs and leave Cakewalk alone. I live in the PRV, and don't need 20+ years of muscle memory broken just to have my DAW behave more like some other things that I don't use nor care about.

Sort of like how the idiots doing Photoshop development these days just arbitrarily decided one day "hey, scaling by dragging a handle should be proportional by default, and shift-dragging should be 'freeform' -- the complete opposite of how it had been since forever". It was a move that didn't much matter to new users either way, and royally POed all their loyal 'power users'.

That is the way Photoshop should have worked all along.  Affinity got it right from the get go.     Not appropriate to fault them for correcting a major mistake even if it took them for ever to figure it out.   

[Noel Borthwick]

1 hour ago, John Bradley said:

That's nice and all, but if you want to rebind the mouse operation to be more in line with how other DAWs do things, then kindly go use those other DAWs and leave Cakewalk alone. I live in the PRV, and don't need 20+ years of muscle memory broken just to have my DAW behave more like some other things that I don't use nor care about.

Sort of like how the idiots doing Photoshop development these days just arbitrarily decided one day "hey, scaling by dragging a handle should be proportional by default, and shift-dragging should be 'freeform' -- the complete opposite of how it had been since forever". It was a move that didn't much matter to new users either way, and royally POed all their loyal 'power users'.

This is precisely the reason why we are very careful to change established operations in major editing views. While I may not like some operations personally (right click delete for one) there are many user for whom this is an important time saving operation. These were implemented decades ago at the request of power users to speed up editing. Windows conventions are good but not the solution to all problems.

[FJ Lamela]

Thank you again for the update, but I do not understand why "Classic Creative Suite audio effects" and sonitus are still DX, a completely obsolete technology today.

[Noel Borthwick]

Because they work just fine in Cakewalk and that's the only consideration for now. The framework for a plugin doesn't change its capabilities or sound in any way just its compatibility. While its something we may consider in the future, we have more pressing things to do with our time than stuff like this at the moment.

[FJ Lamela]

Thanks for the info Noel

[Esteban Villanova]

DX plugins also work fine in REAPER ?

[dhawks]

Not sure what's happening but I can't download it. Never happened before.

[foldaway]

Using Ctrl + Left Mouse Click to open multiple VST GUI's at the same time does not work  in 2020.07 EA.

nb. reposting as think it may have been missed before & this is quite a workflow killer for those who use a lot of plugins.

Thanks.

 

 

[chris.r]

9 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

There is some logic: in Track View, the assumption is that the default selection is via time, so left drag does time selection and right drag does clip (touch) selection.  This trickles down to other views.

But I do agree in principle that left-drag should be select (and right click properties) by default, as these are Windows standards.

True, and I like that it's got some clever way of distinguishing the time selection and lasso selection within the same tool, still would prefer to do both with the left click, for example the time selection as is but use some key modifier to turn it into lasso selection at the point you need it, or make it happen depending on where you start click-dragging (and in prv left-click all the way for me).

3 hours ago, John Bradley said:

That's nice and all, but if you want to rebind the mouse operation to be more in line with how other DAWs do things, then kindly go use those other DAWs and leave Cakewalk alone. I live in the PRV, and don't need 20+ years of muscle memory broken just to have my DAW behave more like some other things that I don't use nor care about.

That's so cheerful that we users differ so much one from another. Funny enough working in the PRV with right mouse click is the biggest PITA for me  and I was a real power user before the change, when selecting was still done with the left click in prv. I think that bakers 'spoiled' it around the Sonar X-series, is it 20 years already?? Jeez the time is passing quickly...

For me it was similar feeling like when I had to change from right-hand gear change (in a car) to left-hand. The best way to describe it is if someone tried to make me change the gender ?? and it *KEEPS* feeling that way until today so eventually I had to go with an automatic... If only there was an ultimate automatic-mode in Cakewalk (well, we have semi-auto, that's on a good side).

Edited July 27, 2020 by chris.r

[Jim Fogle]

On 7/24/2020 at 5:59 AM, Nelson Guimaraes MIDIS said:

It's wonderful!

I would like to give some suggestions:

- assign certain arranger tracks to selected certain midi tracks or midi sessions. 

- provide FX chain also to midi effects

- provide an arpeggiator midi plugin with "composable" arpeggios (like bass patterns, steel guitar rhythmic patterns, etc)

- provide a linux version

I'm a SMF composer, and what you can do to  improve the midi composition will be great for me! Thanks for the update! I love CW!!! You're great! 

nelsonMidis

Greetings Nelson and welcome to the forum.

You've made some interesting suggestions.  However many forum users won't see your suggestions or have an opportunity to comment on them.  May I suggest you post your suggestions in the Feedback Loop forum section so all forum members will have an opportunity to review the suggestions?  The Feedback Loop is here:  https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/forum/8-feedback-loop/

[Blogospherianman]

I really like the automatable Arpeggiator features and the mix knob!. ( I would welcome Quantize to the midi Channel strip with automatable functions as well)

Also is the midi FX Arpeggiator new as well?. I like how the Swing is says 0 for no swing and nagtive values for negative swing and positive values for positive swing.. The Arp Midi FX  swing has double the precicion going from -100 to + 100% (still functions like the quantize swing just with twice the precision and different labeling (quantize swing goes from 0 to 100%.. So to compare apples and oranges, Arp swing -100% = quantize swing 0% and Arp swing 0% = Quantize swing 50% Arp swing has a resolution of 200 and the Quantize Swing has a resolution of 100.. Neither resolution can produce a perfect swing (meaning like quarter then eighth notes in a 6/8 time).  Resolution of 100 puts a perfect swimg at 66.6666667,  Resolution of 200 puts a perfect swing at 133.333333.. A better resolution would be 300, as the perfect swing would be at 200. (Of course currently you could use 1/8 T for a perfect swing however this can end up with notes on the second tripulet 1/8 possibly and it would make the automation between perfect and all else slightly more difficult.  300 is divisible 3 and 4 (5 and 6 as well)

So if you add automatable quantize you might up the resolution to 300.

Loving all of the wonderful changes!

 

[Teegarden]

4 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

This is precisely the reason why we are very careful to change established operations in major editing views. While I may not like some operations personally (right click delete for one) there are many user for whom this is an important time saving operation. These were implemented decades ago at the request of power users to speed up editing. Windows conventions are good but not the solution to all problems.

I get the problem with muscle memory. However, by sticking to the original functions you also block an entire group of new users from quickly getting used to navigating CbB. My personal experience is that if you get a clear list of changes for a keyboard/mouse (you could attach a pdf to each new update with all shortcuts and an annex with changes from the old shortcuts, or put between brackets an old shortcut after the new one) it is not that hard to get used to the new functions and develop new muscle memory. Especially not in the case of "old" users that are already used to standard Windows functions for other purposes. 
My main problem with CbB is also the not always intuitive way functions work, which costs me more time than expected.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Teegarden

[Stxx]

Having melodyne 4 ARA crashes regularly since I updated to this early release. .  Computer runs out of memory (or it thinks it does...)   Not rolling back yet but may have to.   I can only edit and or render small sections at once and I still usually have to restart CBB to get it to play

Edited July 27, 2020 by Stxx