Solved - Creating a V-Vocal Region doesn't and won't bring up the Editor

[Terry Kelley]

I'm trying to make sense of the functionality of V-Vocal in CbB. Initially I thought it wasn't supported since it wasn't where I expected but someone pointed out that it's moved to Region FX in the Track view. Yep, there it is

I read the V-Vocal info in the CbB documentation (not Sonar; the CbB doc) and it clearly shows how to create a V-Vocal region and then open the editor. Nowhere does it say V-Vocal doesn't work or is limited. Every step is there.

So, I loaded a song created in Sonar 8.0 into CbB.

1. The first issue is that clicking on the V-Vocal doesn't open the editor like it did in Sonar 8.0.  Right clicking and selecting Region FX doesn't show the Editor highlighted.

2. Highlighting a small section of vocals and then right clicking on the clip, opening the Region FX shows Create Region FX available. I click it. It creates a region in a new lane below it, but it's not marked V-Vocal. Right clicking on that or the original and going to Region FX never shows the Editor as available.

3. Repeating the above but using Vocal Sync or Melodyne, does create  a clip marked Vocal Sync or Melodyne and the Editor is available.)

I have read the CbB docs enough to be exhausted trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. V-Vocal just won't create a clip that will invoke the editor like in Sonar.

What could I be doing wrong? I've created new short clips, copied clips to a new file and it just doesn't work. The example in the doc is clearly CbB and not just something left over from the Sonar doc. Maybe I have to buy V-Vocal like Melodyne? I figured it would nag like Melodyne does when you try to use it.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Region_FX.11.html

Any thoughts appreciated!

More info: It appears installing CbB might have disabled V-Vocal in Sonar. I was using a second PC without CbB to compare. When I run Sonar 8.0 on the CbB PC, I can't get the region to create or invoke the editor there either.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Awats

[sjoens]

I have similar issue with VocalSync. It opens but doesn't do anything. Dead in the water! You might check that on your end too.

VV works for me.  HOWEVER... it opens in the Multidock with it's right half cut off. I have to drag it out of MD into it's own window before I can use it. Did/does the same thing in Sonar, too.

[Terry Kelley]

Vocal Sync (VSync) seems to work correctly. At least I get the render window and it seems to do something.

I did find this in the manual but I don't think a new clip falls in this area:

 

Region FX clip restrictions

• The following editing functions are disabled for Region FX clips:
• Clip automation.
• Copy/paste for a time selection that contains a Region FX.
• Split clip.
• Slip-stretch clip when the Follow Host Tempo option is enabled.
• Groove Clip looping.
• AudioSnap.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Awats

[Terry Kelley]

There is something wrong with my setting or installation. I installed Sonar 8 Producer on another PC (x64) and then upgraded to CbB. V-vocal works on this new PC on both an old song with V-Vocal and new clips (for comparison.) On the problem PC you can see it flash a clip that says V-Vocal but it disappears. It's no where I can find. Not in a lane, not behind the original clip, no where.

I am not sure where to start at this point - setting, conflicting plugin? Weird.

[sjoens]

Could be we're having CbB vs. video card issues that crop up every now and then. Sonar was famous for this.

Flickering screens are a good indicator for video problems. For now I just write VS off as a lame duck feature.

To this day Sonar & CbB have little things going on like aim assist line that won't go away even after I close the program. It just hangs in space.

I have no real need for VS and have only now tried to use it, so it's not a big deal for me. Still it should work as advertised and it doesn't.

Edited February 18, 2019 by sjoens

[Terry Kelley]

This involves Cronus (from outer space.) I have V1.5.1.0.

Somewhere along the line I recall Cronus giving me issues so I did a shift-Open, removed it and re-saved. Bad move. Cronus is needed for V-Vocal. I don't see a way to add it back in after removing it. It shows in the DX folder in the Plug-in Manager but it isn't selectable to add as an effect.  I do recall it showing up with parenthesis in the FX for a track (Cronus) when I started having trouble.

Any file that was saved before I unloaded Cronus works.

What I discovered, right or wrong  is that I needed to install x32 V-Vocal in the Program Files (x86)/Cakewalk/Shared DXi folder.  Why, I don't know.  There is an x64 version in the Program Files location. I haven't tried hiding it to see what happened. Too scared, can't move.

Any file where I saved it without letting Cronus load but using V-Vocal won't let me just click on the V-Vocal clip and open the editor, but I can create a region again and the editor pops up.  I'll have to redo the pitch corrections but this time I will save them to a clip.

Lesson learned, I am just not sure what it is.  Something is afoot at the Circle-K.

Side Note: I am going to try and re-register the DLLs.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Awats
Solved - sort of

[sjoens]

How do you do that?

[scook]

V-Vocal is a special DX format plug-in. It is special because it does not work in the FX Rack like regular plug-ins. Instead, it is a Region FX. The Cronus.dll is V-Vocal and is excluded by design in the plug-in manager.

Since V-Vocal is DX format, only the 64bit version is seen and loaded by 64bit DAWs. As far as 64bit hosts are concerned, it does not matter if the 32bit version is installed.

Does V-Vocal work in a new project? If so, the old projects which were opened in safe mode and saved without V-Vocal may need to have the V-Vocal clips deleted, the original clips unmuted and V-Vocal reapplied. Don't suppose there are copies of the project prior to opening in safe mode.

[Terry Kelley]

Hi Scook,

Yes, I have older versions so I have some options, but I can't go in and delete the V-Vocal clips - they ARE the clips now. Even though they are marked V-Vocal, they aren't. Not really a big deal now. I can go in and make any corrections I need.

I am not sure why Cronus x32 was needed. I don't think I changed more than one thing at a time. I might remove it again and see what happens since I now understand why some do and don't work.

Thanks!

Edited February 19, 2019 by Awats

[scook]

Until V-Vocal is rendered, it uses a copy of the clip. Should be able to remove the region FX and the original clip should be restored. If that does not happen both should be in the project audio folder (you are using per-project audio folders, right). If the project cannot find the V-Vocal clip it will give you an opportunity to load it. Instead use the original clip and remove the V-Vocal Region. This should restore the original clip. Try it on a copy of the project.

[Terry Kelley]

Right. So far there is a V-Vocal clip there that is pitch corrected but I can't edit it. The only thing I can do is select the region again which creates another clip and edit that. But it's a small price to pay.

[scook]

If the V-Vocal clip was not rendered both the pitch corrected and original clips are available to the project. You may be able to simply roll back to the original by using the Remove Region FX option in the V-Vocal Region FX menu. If not, you can use the method I described above to force CbB to load the original clip.

[John Nelson]

I hope this isn't taken as unwelcome advice but Melodyne is really a lot better than VV ever thought of being even on it very best day,  

[Terry Kelley]

No worries. I'll bet it is better. I've seen the advertisement in CbB!

I've used VV a lot and wanted to get it going.  If I can afford Melodyne at some point I might consider it.

[sjoens]

I still use vvocal for things melodyne isnt as good at. (Yes, I said it, and I'm sticking to it.) Plus it's a lot quicker and easier to use with less cpu load.

BTW, I've always seen vvocal create a 2nd clip over the original even after it's rendered. I end up having to move it out of the way to delete the original.

[Terry Kelley]

9 hours ago, sjoens said:

I still use vvocal for things melodyne isnt as good at. (Yes, I said it, and I'm sticking to it.) Plus it's a lot quicker and easier to use with less cpu load.

BTW, I've always seen vvocal create a 2nd clip over the original even after it's rendered. I end up having to move it out of the way to delete the original.

Ah, that's interesting. I my case, the existing VV clips wouldn't open the editor. I have to create another clip to get it to open if I saved the song with Cronus disabled. . It's all working now either way. Minor glitch..

Edited February 20, 2019 by Awats

[sjoens]

As far as re-editing a vvocal clip, I think you have to bounce it first and then create another instance with vvocal. That's how I've had to do it, anyway.

[Terry Kelley]

11 hours ago, sjoens said:

As far as re-editing a vvocal clip, I think you have to bounce it first and then create another instance with vvocal. That's how I've had to do it, anyway.

I re-read your comment. I didn't try that. I'll check it out and see if a bounce will bring up the editor but I suspect I'll have to create a region. I'll let you know. Thanks for the suggestion!

Edited February 21, 2019 by Awats