Focusrite with S/PDIF: Scarlett -v- Clarett

[SteveStrummerUK]

I was chatting to my old mate Troy the other day, and he mooted the idea of rekindling our VeRy MeTaL project.

I'm currently using a cheapish Zoom U44 interface to connect my Kemper to my PC using  S/PDIF. It works really well, but the Zoom isn't really up to the job when it comes to recording. It doesn't even come close to my old TonePort UX2 if I'm honest, but the UX2 doesn't have S/PDIF (hence why I retired it).

I thought that if I was going to get back into recording stuff, I might as well get an interface that's a bit more up to date/sophisticated.

I've been looking at the Focusrite range as these seem popular among us hobbyists, and I've narrowed my research down to two potential purchases:

• Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 USB-C (UK £224.00)
  
  

• Focusrite Clarett 4 Pre USB (UK £459.00)
  
  

Both have more than enough ins/outs etc for my needs, and crucially both have an S/PDIF in (to connect my Kemper) and an S/PDIF out (to connect my monitors).

Bearing in mind most of the stuff I record is likely to feature too much distortion in A minor, is there any 'noticeable' benefit to me spending nearly twice the dosh for the Clarett over the Scarlett?

Or is there something else out there in that sort of price range that might be worth my looking into?

Thanks in advance for any wisdom imparted my way ?

 

 

[Starise]

The main advantage to the Clarett over the Scarlett is better mic/instrument preamps. I have the Scarlett version of the 4 pre and it works well in my home studio setting. I'll probably replace my Scarlett with a Clarett when the time comes. So far though the pre amps in my Scarlett are just fine. In an actual recording mix I doubt the difference is night and day. 

What your main question is though concerning the  S/PDIF. I don't see how there could be any difference in that digital signal between the two. Lots of users are taking advantage of the S/PDIF to add 8 extra mic inputs to the interface.  I haven't heard of it used for guitar input so I can't comment on how it worked for that. I would be confident it would work just fine if sample rates are matched.

[msmcleod]

43 minutes ago, Starise said:

.... Lots of users are taking advantage of the S/PDIF to add 8 extra mic inputs to the interface....

Just to clarify... The S/PDIF is a 2 input (stereo) digital input.  Both the Scarlett and the Clarett have this.

The optical input however on the Clarett is an ADAT input which supports up to 8 inputs at 48Khz/44.1Khz or 4 inputs at 96Khz/88.2Khz.   I've not checked the specs, but it probably supports 2 inputs at 192Khz too.

So basically the Clarett gives you the option of connecting a Clarett OctoPre at some point too.

[msmcleod]

If you want the same options as the Clarett without the expense, you could look at the Scarlett 18i8 - it's essentially the same, but with the Scarlett pre's rather than the Clarett ones:

 

[Starise]

5 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

If you want the same options as the Clarett without the expense, you could look at the Scarlett 18i8 - it's essentially the same, but with the Scarlett pre's rather than the Clarett ones:

 

This is the one I have.

Quote

So basically the Clarett gives you the option of connecting a Clarett OctoPre at some point too.

....or as another option, The Behringer ADA8200. 8 "Midas" preamps .

Edited June 5, 2020 by Starise

[msmcleod]

9 minutes ago, Starise said:

This is the one I have.

....or as another option, The Behringer ADA8200. 8 "Midas" preamps .

I considered the 18i8, but opted for the 18i20 so I could rack mount it.

I've got the older Behringer ADA8000. The ADA8000 mic pres aren't great, but the line inputs are perfect. 

[synkrotron]

Are the new Roland offerings not that good? Preamp wise?

[Starise]

The Roland offerings are no better or worse than  most of the other prosumer interfaces such as Tascam, Steinberg and the like.

They don't  touch the  quality of something like Apogee or RME. The Clarett line is in that range and a good value in comparison. The Scarlett range is more similar to those others. I think the pres sound a bit better than something like Tascam to my ears. Presonus has some decent interfaces too. If you use a decent outboard preamp into line inputs  mic preamps become less of an issue. 

You really have to sort through the sales jargon and the specs to get a better picture. At the end of the day all preamps have some noise and harmonic distortion. Most of them have very little noise at 60% volume or less. A Scarlett pre might have 10% more noise than an RME pre. If the input signal is healthy there should be no need to push them up much higher. It goes deeper than that. You need clean power filtration in the interface and I think Focusrite have done a good job since they use wall warts. Good RF protection is another factor. The better interfaces have  lower S/N ratios than the less expensive ones. The A/D converters are usually stable enough that  most human ears can't detect a huge difference. Presonus uses something called XMAX that's supposed to stabilize the crystal oscillations. That's a company trademark term and it might be more fairy dust than reality. Sort of like the "waveguide" technology JBL uses on their monitors. It's patented. It's probably an improvement. How much I can't say.

Scientists and techs like to see hard data on an oscilloscope to determine how much noise is in the electronics. Musicians on the other hand, use their ears. The differences are not huge unless we are comparing Apogee to M-audio low end  sub 100 dollar interfaces. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Starise

[synkrotron]

Interesting, @Starise

I guess that because I rarely use a microphone that the mic pre's are not so important to me. But for most I would imagine that it is most important to get that part right, or at least use an external preamp to then go into a sound device via SPDIF. I have an Roland MMP-2 but I have no idea of its reputation. An old unit and Roland again so I'm guessing not that great.

[bitflipper]

...is there any 'noticeable' benefit to me spending nearly twice the dosh for the Clarett over the Scarlett?

In terms of S/PDIF, no.

It's a digital transfer, so assuming no issues with cables or cable lengths, you simply get what you get. Same as a USB or an HDMI port. Assuming it's working correctly, neither clocking accuracy nor jitter should be an issue. 

Preamps are another thing. But if you don't use the analog inputs, the benefits of higher gain with lower noise won't interest you. I am a Focusrite user today but used a more-expensive MOTU for many years, and an entry-level Roland unit before that. The only complaint I have with the Focusrite is I sometimes have trouble getting enough gain on the mic inputs, and there's noticeable noise when I crank them up. Otherwise, I think the unit (Saffire Pro 40) was a good value.

[SteveStrummerUK]

Big thanks to everyone for the excellent advice and insight ☺️

As the S/PDIF inputs on either Focusrite seem to offer nothing above what I have on the Zoom, I might be better off staying with that.

Only problem is - I'm still on the last version of SONAR and try as I might, I can't get it to recognise the S/PDIF signal coming via the Zoom from my Kemper.

Am I missing something really obvious?

[paulo]

27 minutes ago, SteveStrummerUK said:

Big thanks to everyone for the excellent advice and insight ☺️

As the S/PDIF inputs on either Focusrite seem to offer nothing above what I have on the Zoom, I might be better off staying with that.

Only problem is - I'm still on the last version of SONAR and try as I might, I can't get it to recognise the S/PDIF signal coming via the Zoom from my Kemper.

Am I missing something really obvious?

Not familiar with the Zoom, but if it is USB powered might it make a difference as to whether it was plugged in before or after you started the PC?

[SteveStrummerUK]

31 minutes ago, paulo said:

Not familiar with the Zoom, but if it is USB powered might it make a difference as to whether it was plugged in before or after you started the PC?

I'll give it a try mate. Here's the Zoom U44:

I'm going into the U44 using the Coaxial In S/PDIF.

It works absolutely fine in as much as I can hear the Kemper through my monitors (also plugged into the U44).

Edited June 6, 2020 by SteveStrummerUK
More info added

[paulo]

28 minutes ago, SteveStrummerUK said:

I'm going into the U44 using the Coaxial In S/PDIF.

It works absolutely fine in as much as I can hear the Kemper through my monitors (also plugged into the U44).

OIC - I thought that you were getting nothing at all from the Zoom.

Stating the obvious - but you did ask if you might be missing something obvious - have you set the S/PDIF IN toggle switch correctly?

Does Plat pick up the regular XLR inputs?

[SteveStrummerUK]

On 6/6/2020 at 7:37 PM, paulo said:

OIC - I thought that you were getting nothing at all from the Zoom.

Stating the obvious - but you did ask if you might be missing something obvious - have you set the S/PDIF IN toggle switch correctly?

Does Plat pick up the regular XLR inputs?

I think I've cracked it mate.

In answer to your query regarding the XLR input (which were working fine BTW), I had a cable plugged in to input 1 from the Kemper.

I tried unplugging that and restarting SONAR and it's now seeing the S/PDIF perfectly! It would appear the analogue input was somehow 'masking' the digital in.

Thanks for your input (pun intended ?) mate - you certainly got me thinking along the right lines (and saved me a few bob!).

 

[paulo]

19 minutes ago, SteveStrummerUK said:

I think I've cracked it mate.

In answer to your query regarding the XLR input (which were working fine BTW), I had a cable plugged in to input 1 from the Kemper.

I tried unplugging that and restarting SONAR and it's now seeing the S/PDIF perfectly! It would appear the analogue input was somehow 'masking' the digital in.

Thanks for your input (pun intended ?) mate - you certainly got me thinking along the right lines (and saved me a few bob!).

 

Cool. That was going to be my next question/suggestion if you confirmed that XLR input was being picked up ok. 

Glad you're up and running. ?

 

[SteveStrummerUK]

Cheers mucker ☺️