Insert Time/Measures issue

[fonolit]

When inserting extra measures into the song with several meter and tempo changes using Insert Time/Measures command with Slide options ON, it also slides tempo and meter changes at the cursor. It may look logical but the result is confusing and unpractical.

 

Example:

1. Lets have a song at 120 BPM. At measure 50 the refrain starts and the tempo changes to 140 BPM. At measure 66 the tempo returns to 120 BPM

2. I want to add 8 measures at the beginning of refrain. So I put cursor at measure 50 and use Insert Time/Measures.

3. Now my refrain starts at mesure 50 with 8 empty measures as I wanted - but at 120BPM! Because the tempo change was pushed 8 measures ahead together with everything else.

Turning Slide to OFF does not help because I need to move the following tempo changes (e.g. at measure 66). But not the first one!

The workaround in this example is simple, just need to set a new tempo change after using Insert Time/Measures, but it starts to be more complicated with Meter changes, Markers etc. and very confusing when recording audio, especially when you forget to do this workaround imediatelly.

(The current behaviour may be useful and logical when inserting measures at the end of a sequence before the tempo change.)

Suggestion: there should be an option to exclude the tempo/meter changes (and also markers!) at the cursor position from sliding. 

 

Anyone having same experiences?

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by fonolit

[57Gregy]

When inserting the 8 measures, insert it a few clicks beyond the measure boundary, i.e. after the tempo change.
Or, move the tempo change a few ticks before the refrain.

[fonolit]

Thanks, yes, that is another possible workaround. However it may create a mess: if you have any MIDI notes/CC at the start of this measure, they won't be moved, clips would be splitted...

Having an option for this in the Insert Time dialog box would be a safe way (something like "Exclude marker/tempo/meter changes at cursor").

Anybody knows how this works in other DAWs? I guess Ableton's Insert Silence command does not move tempo changes at cursor...

[R Henn]

I believe Ripple Edit will solve this for you. I find it somewhat fiddly, but in combo with slide and/or insert Time/Time Measures, it gets me where I want go eventually. Don’t do it often enough to recall the steps from memory, so check the manual. Before Ripple Edit arrived this kind of thing was darn near impossible. Hopefully you’re on the latest or recent version of CbB?

[fonolit]

Hi R Henn, thanks for your tip. I tried to experiment with Ripple Edit but I could not get a better result. Whatever I do it always moves also the tempo changes at the very beginnig of the selection. I checked the manual on Ripple Edit but could not figure out anything useful...

I am on 2020.01. Maybe the new Arranger track in 2020.04 will bring a solution?

Edited April 18, 2020 by fonolit

[SteveC]

Have you tried moving the tempo change a few ticks before measure 50?    If a tempo change is inserted at a measure boundary and then new measures inserted at the same point, the process should grab everything, including the tempo change, and shift it forward.    I would think that a tempo change that close to the bar line (but not on it) shouldn't noticeably affect anything.

 

[Colin Nicholls]

@fonolit, just in case it helps:   Timeline editing in Cakewalk, reloaded