[Solved]40 audiotracks OK, but 47 it crackles like hell and you get 60% cpu on 6(8) cores?

[LarsF]

Hi

EDIT. so it turns out prochannels was activated by something, no clue what did that.

Project template I started with made - MyBlank - did not have it active - nor did I have it visible, i close that module first thing.

Never been in tab in Inspector Pro either either.

But I do use Ctrl+A a lot and to makro operations, clicking buttons on/off, inserting sends, changing output destination and stuff.

Just relieved I found reason for it, puuuh

 

Discovered some strange stuff today, and didn't really look at cpu before it started crackling.

I recorded 40 simple mono audio tracks, each 2 minutes yesterday and all seemed to be below limits - so no crackles or anything.

I do solo only one track at a time, so 39 not playing.

Added two sends, one to reverb and one to an ir on two busses - routed to master.

All fine still.

Added 7 more tracks I recorded today, and then it crackles severly every 5-10s or so - on playback thank god, recorded stuff seemed clean.

I think it started reaching limit at about 45 tracks total, and last two I recorded crackles a lot while recording.

 

So looked at task manager - just having project loaded it uses 60% on 5 cores, and doing playback on 6 cores - 4 core with HT, of 8 logical cores.

So looked at thread scheduling, it was at 1 but set to 2 to try out, restarted and so forth - but no difference.

 

I tried archiving all but 2 tracks - and cpu went down to 5%, hardly noticable.

So unarchived again, and tried turn off always run audio through fx in preferences.

Then it only uses same cpu while doing playback

 

But what is consuming so much cpu, one wonders?

47 tracks, and one soloed and only playing.

I tried disabling the effects, but noticed no difference.

I tried disabling sends on tracks and maybe did 2-3% or something.

 

The only thing that made a difference was archiving all not playing.

 

But in simple terms this means I cannot run projects larger than 45 tracks total - with just simple audio - not good.

 

I will export as omf to Cubase and check, and do track archives from Cubase over to StudioOne and come back with report on all.

But thought I'd here what is your experience as soon as project grow a bit?

 

This was an experiment just recording electric guitars, with various settings and amps and stuff.

I don't even remember when I had crackles on my RME HDSP 9632, if ever.

Projects mixed midi and audio summing up to 33 tracks+10 busses and plugin use 30% on 4 cores(15 total as shown) and works fine, as other projects I have in Cakewalk as well. But those originate in Sonar.

 

A bit worried about this.

 

So did tests in Cubase Pro 9.5 and StudioOne Pro 4.6,

Cubase 8% cpu, evenly distributed over all cores.

StudioOne 6% cpu, evenly distributed - no core higher.

Cakewalk 40% total, 60% or 6 cores.

I don't run 64 bit audio engine in any of them.

EDIT2:

I did to complete an import of omf again to Cakewalk - and result was interesting.

Cakewalk - 4% cpu same conditions.

 

So difference is two missing sends on each track that seem to be real costly.

I will continue and add sends to this imported and see what happends - to be continued....

EDIT 3:

So I added three busses, master and two effect busses with same plugins.

Then added two sends from each track to these two busses.

 

Result Cakewalk cpu 11% spread on 4 cores. That was a relief.

 

Opening old project cpu 60% on 6 cores.

As far as I can tell - exactly the same project.

 

What might go on here?

 

Thanks for any ideas....

Edited March 10, 2020 by LarsF

[David Baay]

Check to see if some Prochannel module is enabled on all tracks.

[LarsF]

Thanks, but never used those. I did more test, will add comment in first post.

[LarsF]

11 hours ago, David Baay said:

Check to see if some Prochannel module is enabled on all tracks.

It turns out you were all right about that - how the heck did this get turned on.

I did check right after you posted - and everything gray in console pro channel module - but now it were orange showing active somehow.

Also extra 10% cpu was added that tracks became stereo - and no clue how that happend either.

I am 100% sure it was all set to mono with mono input and all tracks marked as mono interleave while recording.

 

So all playing in 11% cpu now.

[David Baay]

Cool. It was the only explanation I could think of. Check the default Prochannel setup in whatever template you used to start the project.

[LarsF]

I did check the template, and it had all gray look as module in console - like it did actually when you first tipped on that that.

In Inspector Pro-tab it's so cluttered with fields I don't even know how to see it there. I never had that visible, ever, since I ran Sonar Artist before and did not have it.

Really weird, I would certainly have seen that clear lit orange marker that it's active as I short displayed that module in console. Rahter big orange button on gray background.

It had activated both compressor and tube saturation on 47 tracks, 94 instances, and also on the bus version extra 2.

I guess some kind of macro operation I did with all tracks selected, or some Undo. But only did 3-4 Undo I think on total of this. Not a serious recording serving anything but just reference test which guitars and pickup and amps and processing to use on them, as  a training course, kind of.

 

So don't think it was there from start - even if duplicating every track would have picked that up for every new track.

Since tracks also were made stereo interleave, which I know I sat and recorded as mono from start.

 

Computers.....can't live with them....can't live without them.... isn't that what they say....;)

[scook]

One thing to consider is changing the default PC in tracks and buses to contain only the PCEQ.

The default is set by right clicking in the PC.

The tracks/buses in templates and exiting projects will have to cleaned up separately.

 

[winkpain]

What does this mean??

Surely we should be able to use ProChannel on all tracks, shouldn't we? Or is this an issue only in the case of this many tracks  as mentioned in the OP? If so, then, how many tracks is too many?

 

[David Baay]

Depends how many and which modules are active. If you managed to enable all the defualt modules in 40+ tracks, I can imagine the load might be pretty significant. 

[LarsF]

2 hours ago, winkpain said:

What does this mean??

Surely we should be able to use ProChannel on all tracks, shouldn't we? Or is this an issue only in the case of this many tracks  as mentioned in the OP? If so, then, how many tracks is too many?

 

It's like any plugins - there is a limit depending on computer you have.

If I were to be aware of it was plugins, put there by intention, I could just freeze tracks and the plugins are releasing resources again.

So the effect would be merged into the new audio.

In  my case unaware they were running realtime, and no need for them either, I didn't do that - just removed them.

 

So remember, any plugins including VST instruments running realtime while mixing can be frozen and you got a system with headroom again. Cakewalk freezing is the best in the business - very easy to do, and you get audio on all outs from instruments as well - this is very uncommon. So smooth to see the audio from instruments and helpful as doing automation, if any, later. As easy to undo as well, if any more recording or editing needed.

 

Easy to forget about freezing....

Edited March 12, 2020 by LarsF

[winkpain]

There's no forgetfulness on freezing here. It's a regular part of my workflow.

But so is having the PC eq, comp, and console modules sometimes on even already frozen tracks. Anyway, I see that the original post  was an issue of the number of tracks involved, not necessarily the all-inclusiveness of it. And, of course, the fact that you didn't even intend for them to be on - which is the strange part.

So, speaking of the ProChannel modules then, is there any reason other than preference/taste to prefer them or not compared to VSTs added to the FX bin?  I have tended to think of them as more "efficient", perhaps just in a workflow and/or signal flow manner, but when stopping to actually think about it now, I realize that this may be not really true...

Edited March 12, 2020 by winkpain

[LarsF]

17 minutes ago, winkpain said:

And, of course, the fact that you didn't even intend for them to be on - which is the strange part.

So, speaking of the ProChannel modules then, is there any reason other than preference/taste to prefer them or not compared to VSTs added to the FX bin?  I have tended to think of them as more "efficient", perhaps just in a workflow and/or signal flow manner, but when stopping to actually think about it now, I realize that this may be not really true...

Yes, it's weirdness above the most for me - never had those PC visible anywhere.

I heard only good things about PC stuff, but for me I bought all in Waves 7 years ago - SSL, NLS, CLA compressors, HLS strip - which I use everywhere. So switching daw, I don't need to relearn anything. So what shapes the sound - always the same that I know well.

I've was led astray from Sonar, kind of, looking for real good notation built in and landed on Cubase, since that was not more expensive than top notch notation. Figured I continue use Sonar and just do notation in Cubase - but migrated to Cubase Pro all the way for VCA, chord tracks, arranger tracks and whatnot. But waiting forever for new video engine in Cubase after MS deprecated quicktime, I was severly disappointed once it came - so went to StudioOne which did video really well(1/5 cpu same project), and had smooth conversion of Cubase track archives to StudioOne songs in a flash. But now back on Cakewalk, really had forgotten how good it is.....so it was a good thing having everything in 3rd party plugins that I knew well.....

 

...so a hint to Bakers what can happend when you cannot do triplet based stuff like shuffle in Cakewalk.....true story...

Edited March 12, 2020 by LarsF

[winkpain]

I hear you, @LarsF

Using the Waves suite exclusively will surely do you no wrong!

I do a lot of competition/notation as well but have found nothing better than Sibelius for that (and now maybe Dorico), which I re-wire into Cakewalk if needing to work with digital audio as well. It's not the same as having a robust notation editor built in (which sadly, Cakewalk's does very much not have) and being able to edit with both MIDI and notation approaches, but it can work if needed.

[LarsF]

Interesting how you do Dorico, I'm done with Steinberg though. Keep Cubase installed for notation alone.

That Steinberg released Dorico in itself says that there is a damand for good notation, this despite pretty good in Cubase/Nuendo.

So really stumped that Cakewalk always rejected the idea to update it. It were among 3 top feature request on old Forum.

 

As long as I did 4/4 only in Sonar 4, and got by quite well for my needs with notation. But as soon as I started playing drums and took lessons and stuff I wanted to start using more interesting beats and it just fails.  4/4 with triplets like shuffle fails already - you must do all 3 triplets, no pauses or anything.

 

Some things I noticed are really simple to do in Staff View is switch a midi track into a double bass+treble clef - which I do a lot mapping strings all over keyboard, cello on left and violins midle and up. So practical to do, as double for readability. Not useful for an orchestra with conductor, just good readability with double staves if doing two handed anything. I do the same with horn section and do baryton saxophone on left hand and trombone+trumpet on right. Easy to read as bass+treble clef. Musically f-ked, but just for own reference.

 

I evaluated Finale full version 2 years ago - and it was a mess with some buggy plugin and result were not good. Only on import could I do split/fusion like that. I had on old Finale Guitar from 2003 that I used before as well, so upgrade would be only $200 or so. But no, did not work.

 

Staff view in Cakewalk is a breeze doing this, just have the midi track and decide split note, and bass+treble and done. If you go a bit wrong, you just redo it again. So some things are a good base to build from.

How complicated is this - and so few get it?

 

I ran Notion 6.5 with StudioOne, and it was only on import to Notion if midi track happend to be named Piano you could get double clef/staves whatever you call it in english. And also doing recording could you do into Grand Piano staff as they called it. But not once in Notion you could do this, if you change your mind which is the split note????

 

A lot of good thinking put into Staff view, and it's a mistake not building further on that, I think.

Edited March 12, 2020 by LarsF