Max Arwood Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 - Didn't want to post in Kevin Smith's thread. I was running smoothly in Win7 with some help by Mathew Sorrels. Then, we got the ASIO update. Dropouts started with the ASIO update and continued through the next update. I waited until a second update before I decided to post this, hoping it would be resolved. Since things were not going so good with the ASIO update in Win7, I decided to upgrade to Win 10. I could also keep the Cakewalk updates going and hoped that this would help. Since the ASIO and the Win 10 upgrade, I have had multiple crashes daily, and can't play projects that worked fine before these 2 upgrades. I have an older i7 2700 Studio Cat computer. I also have an older sound card. I have turned off and tweaked everything in Win 10 I could find to do. Latency monitoring - Current interrupt to process latency 58.-79 then bounces to 100+every few seconds Highest measured is 326 ISR routine exception time 86.59 Highest reported DPC routine execution time 251 Total hard pagefault count 377 Any help would be appreciated - Thanks, Max Arwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 There could be trouble there. That's a whole lotta pagefaultin'. I just ran Latency Mon to get some comparison and while most of my numbers were similar, my pagefaults were 3. In order for us to help you better, we need you to click on the other tabs. Under "Drivers," click on the column header to sort by Highest execution (ms) and tell us what the first couple of driver names are and what the execution times are. Under Processes, click on Hard pagefaults and tell us what are giving you all those hard pagefaults. Those are a big red flag. If you could tell us how much RAM you have and what your HD config is (SSD, spinny, what's where) that would be helpful. I put mine in my sig. Also, Starship Krupa-fy your Windows Defender with that folder exclusion thing I posted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 It might help other advise you if you listed What your audio interface was. Saying it’s older doesn’t help much. Did it have drivers that are 100% made for windows 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 #2 Post Windows 10 Pro 1909 build 18363 (x64) ASUSTeK Computer P8Z68-V PRO GEN3 Intel i7-2600k @ 3.40GHz (GEN2) Logical Processors 8 Ram 20455 MB total Hard Drive seagate SSD 2tb (boot drive) Controlled Folder Access is off. Do I need to turn it on? 12 Hours running - Hard Page Faults Cakewalk 78958 (not playing anything) NVidia 72116 mspeng 6208(Windows Defender - It turned itself back on) Explorer 1398 svchost 623 system 576 smartscreen 401 (Windows Defender) svchost 116 svchost 100 svchost 84 Drivers Highest execution (ms) echo24.sys 0.118599 classpnp.sus .079784 scsiport.sys .049376 agd.sys .031917 storahci.sys .031917 postcls.sys .031382 Drivers - highest IRS count (12 Hours Idle-only thing active - Macrium nightly backup) Wdf01000.sys 47076 echo24 (Sound card) 46467 dxkrnl.sys 7182 usbport.sys 1795 mrccbt.sys 905 (Macrium Reflect) mrigflt.sys 420(Macrium image gardian-turned off?) -------------------------------- Reset latency monitor then played a 2 min song - Hard Page Faults list Cakewalk Hard Page Faults is 342 svhost 56 chrome 6 chrome 7 Reset latency monitor again played a 30sec of a song - Hard Page Faults Runtime broker 63 Cakewalk 40 Chrome 7 Reset latency monitor again played a 30sec of a song - Hard Page Faults Cakewalk 33 searchprotocolhost 12 explorer 5 chrome 2 Thanks, Max Arwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, John Vere said: It might help other advise you if you listed What your audio interface was. Saying it’s older doesn’t help much. Did it have drivers that are 100% made for windows 10? No, audio driver is windows 7 - no updates - no support. It is a 64bit driver. Should I tell windows to use win 7 compatibility on the audio driver? (Can't - it is a sys file.) Edited March 5, 2020 by Max Arwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 Removed the newest NVidia drivers. That did help some. Still short of power to use Cakewalk with a few plugins. Max Awood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Stoner Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Run Latency Mon right after you boot up. No Cakewalk running, no recording interface attached, etc. Just basic PC with Windows. See if Latency Mon shows any problems. If it does you need to get that corrected before attacking any other (if there is other) DAW dropout issues. One issue is NVIDIA. EVERY PC that I've had and tested for DAW work had dropouts with NVIDIA Video. My own, the many Dell's that I do field testing for, others on this forum. On my DAW desktop If I use the Intel CPU Video or an AMD Radeon video card there are no dropouts. On the Dell test PC's (mostly laptops) if I disable the NVIDIA and force them to use the Intel CPU video there are no problems. The Intel CPU video is more than adequate for DAW work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 Yes NVidia all gone using windows built-in driver. With a clean boot - Different things will end up showing Hard Page fault. One time it will be the windows virus msmpeng program on top next time securityhealthhost , next time searchprotocolhost , tiworker , next time nothing?? It seems like any program I load will cause hard page faults. I did memtest 2x both time all ok. What do I do now? Thanks, Max Arwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 It's a Studio Cat PC, contact @Jim Roseberry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Stoner Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 I use the built in Windows defender (and Malwarebytes) and that does not cause any problems on my DAW Desktop or Laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Oakes Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) On 3/5/2020 at 12:06 PM, Jack Stoner said: Run Latency Mon right after you boot up. No Cakewalk running, no recording interface attached, etc. Just basic PC with Windows. See if Latency Mon shows any problems. If it does you need to get that corrected before attacking any other (if there is other) DAW dropout issues. One issue is NVIDIA. EVERY PC that I've had and tested for DAW work had dropouts with NVIDIA Video. My own, the many Dell's that I do field testing for, others on this forum. On my DAW desktop If I use the Intel CPU Video or an AMD Radeon video card there are no dropouts. On the Dell test PC's (mostly laptops) if I disable the NVIDIA and force them to use the Intel CPU video there are no problems. The Intel CPU video is more than adequate for DAW work. C’mon, i run nVidia drivers on a desktop and a laptop. I have disabled the nVidia hdmi audio, the nVidia experience and whatever else i can during fresh installs. No problems. Latency Mon is green, on both. I can record a concert (3 x 40 mn ) without problems on the laptop. Perhaps its a little too general to blame nVidia per se ? Not looking for a dispute, just saying. FYI, The Echo web page states that they do NOT support W10 - the problem is perhaps there........... https://echoaudio.com/pages/windows-drivers cheers, Jerry Edited March 6, 2020 by Jeremy Oakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Stoner Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Jeremy, my NVIDIA experience on many different PC's were all the same. Some may work OK but none that I found. There was a thread a while back on the gearslutz forum about dropouts and general consensus was avoid NVIDIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Max, I'm here if you need assistance. ? Nvidia video cards can work fine in a DAW. They can also cause high DPC Latency. ie: When the RTX-2xxx series were first released, they were causing high DPC Latency. BTW, This issue isn't limited to Nvidia. The latest v1909 Win10 update (with updated drivers for UHD-630 graphics) is causing high DPC Latency. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Max, if the upgrade install of Win10 is a "mess", I'd start with a clean install of Win10. Yes, it's a pain to go thru... but well worth it for a rock-solid foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 I think I would like to dual boot win10. keep the upgrade and start in another “fresh install“. What is the easiest way to do add the second partition and install win 10 again? Fresh?’ I have 500 Tb to work with that could be allocated. This way I could see if the install is bauched or if the audio card needs to go. Thanks, Max Arwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Roseberry Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) Hi Max, I would do the clean install of Win10 on a separate physical drive. Much easier to "clean-up" (once you've fully migrated)... Edited March 9, 2020 by Jim Roseberry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 Ok thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonD Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) So... You have an older, Echo interface (Last drivers for Win 7/8, correct?). It was working fine until a recent CW update.... Updating O.S. to Win 10 increased instability. No tweaks have fixed the problems so far... Seems to me you have two options: 1) You have Macrium installed. Assuming it's for doing system images/backups, and that you have been using it.... Use Macrium to restore back to a point where it was working fine -- then stop running anymore CW updates. You could probably update to Win 8.1, but who knows if everything will remain as stable. 2) Get a newer audio interface and update to Win 10 to fully support it. Edited March 10, 2020 by JonD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 I did a full image of my drive before I moved to win 10. I also have 2 6tb seagate running. Back up - Oh yes Macrium! I would not do without it! I am going to start in a clean install this weekend. If that does not work. I will have to shop for a new audio box of some type. I love all the cakewalk updates! Thanks, Max Arwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Arwood Posted March 11, 2020 Author Share Posted March 11, 2020 Upgrade to win 10 made things worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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