Sampletank 4 Locks Up

[Matthew Sorrels]

The ST4 UI and preset loading system is a bit weird at first.  Groove3 has a SampleTank 4 Explained video (with Eli  Krantzberg) that isn't that bad (if you happen to have a sub).  Though I don't think it goes into the included multis all that much, since that section actually was expanded after the initial software release.  But if you want to learn the interface and some of the more complex features it is maybe the best video guide I've seen.

ST4 is better than ST3 by a good ways.  I'm not sure I've ever used the drum kits that much, they don't seem as good as Superior Drummer 3/EZDrummer/Addictive Drums 2/etc.  But they are certainly usable.  The big thing I wish they might address is that ST4 lost the visible keyswitch guide that ST3 instruments had.  This was very nice with the Miroslav instruments.  In ST3 you could see the keyswitch guide but in ST4 it's just some red colored keys.  You can see what articulation is active in the main parts view (shows up under the instrument name) but that's it.

Sampletank has never been home of the deeply sampled super-realistic scripted instruments you can find in Kontakt.  But for a rompler its sounds aren't all that bad.

I know there are still some outstanding issues with 4.0.9 (check KvR for the thread).  But at least for me 4.0.9 and the sounds update that went with it, addressed most of the problems.  I still don't trust the VST3 version though and stick with the VST2.  For Sampletank 3 this was pretty much required, for Sampletank 4 I believe the VST3 should be stable, but the long history of it crashing (when the VST2 wouldn't) kind of makes me avoid it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Matthew Sorrels

[Starise]

Thanks Matt. I downloaded both the VST2 and VST3 versions. I have recently gone to only downloading VST3 thinking it might avoid issues. I seen it is sandboxed because I haven't checked  use VST2 in VST preferences. So far so good- knock on wood. I tend to gravitate to certain programs that work well for me and that have the features I like. I don't see myself using Sampletank a lot in the future. I could be wrong. 

Their concert grand piano in the 77 pack is one of the hands down best pianos for recording and playing I have ever used. It's just fun to play and fits right into recordings well.  I have all of the pianos in Kontakt, Addictive keys  and others. Sometimes it isn't about how real something sounds.   Has more to do with if it sounds good and works well in the context of a recording....that one is a keeper and made it worth the effort to get ST4 working for me.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Starise

[Jim Fogle]

@Starise, I'm glad you got SampleTank 4 working.  @Matthew Sorrels, I appreciate you taking time to provide your in depth explanations.

One last comment about VST3s if I may.  I've read several times that VST3 troubleshooting step one should be to try the equivalent VST2.  I think there are multiple reasons but it boils down to three (1) the VST3 specification is imprecise, (2) developers have less experience creating VST3 and (3) plugin host developers have less experience interfacing VST3.

There normally is no advantage to using a VST3 when a VST2 is available so my first choice is VST2.

[Matthew Sorrels]

47 minutes ago, Jim Fogle said:

There normally is no advantage to using a VST3 when a VST2 is available so my first choice is VST2.

It really depends on the developer.  For example Fabfilter's Pro-Q 3 on Windows doesn't allow free resizing in the VST2 version.  Only the VST3 version can be sized to any size you want.  The VST2 version just has a menu of pre-set sizes.  It was a choice they made when they did the development.  If you didn't install the VST3 version you would be missing out.  And it's not the only one (sizing features are very often the difference between VST2 and VST3 plugins).  VST3 also does a few side-chaining things better than VST2. 

On the other hand VST2 handles MIDI pass through/generation slightly better than VST3.  An example of this is Blue Cat's Plug'n Script's VST3 version which doesn't work very well processing MIDI events but the VST2 version works great (I learned this the hard way).

I'd say choice of VST2 vs VST3 shouldn't be automatic, it depends on the product/plugin.

[Jim Fogle]

On 1/19/2020 at 11:28 AM, Matthew Sorrels said:

Sampletank has never been home of the deeply sampled super-realistic scripted instruments you can find in Kontakt.  But for a rompler its sounds aren't all that bad.

@Matthew Sorrels,  When you use the term, rompler, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  Does this Wkipedia discussion accurately reflect your use of the term?  I'm thinking of this sentence in particular:

Quote

The core characteristic of a rompler, compared to a sampler, is that they do not have the ability to record new samples, or in case of software instruments, the ability to add user samplers from disk.

 

[Matthew Sorrels]

Yes.  A rompler is a sampler with a fixed set of sounds (used to be stored in ROM, read-only-memory) hence the name. 

Early versions of Sampletank actually allowed a user to make their own instruments, but that was dropped a while back.  Which changed it more into a classic sound module/rompler. 

It's not exactly a term of endearment.  By and large early sound modules for keyboard workstations had pretty weak sound libraries.  They would take one sample and stretch it across the whole keyboard by pitch shifting it and that would be the flute or sax instrument for example.  They did this because the storage space on the ROMs was very limited.  Sampletank's very early libraries were often of that class.  It's not so true for Sampletank 4 though, the sample library included with it is a bit more complicated (which is why the download is now so large). 

Even still, many Sampletank instruments still only have a small number of samples for an instrument, instead of many samples at every pitch and velocity.   And the playback engine is fairly limited, unlike things like Kontakt and UVI  which can have scripts that determine when and how to play back a sample.

How a software instrument is made -- the samples, how they were recorded, how they are played back are really important for how well any specific instrument works.  One problem with rompler class instruments is they tend to focus more on breath and quantity of instruments, rather than quality.

[Jim Fogle]

Great response.  Rompler, sound module, how a software instrument is made - each is worthy of their own discussion.

[Starise]

I remember playing Sampletank years ago when it first came out on a laptop. A lot has changed since then. It looks as if ST4 still allows a lot of flexibility to put different instruments (samples) on the keybed where you want them, panning, etc. All of the stuff you would have done with a hardware rack setup way back when.  I don't believe Kontakt lets you record samples either.  Kontakt will let you drop in samples.

I don't necessarily associate the romplers of old with the more modern romplers. They have come a long way and many of them sound quite good.   I think it's a great all rounder'. Sampletank max is  loaded with probably more sounds than most will ever use. For anyone who fancies a way out of Kontakt land ST is a consideration. The main downside is there are no 3rd party libs so far as I know.

In the end it has everything to do with the mix and what you're trying to bring out. In some cases a small library is just fine. I will say I'm not particularly confident in ST if I were leaning on it for large projects that had a deadline. This doesn't have much to do with the libraries or their quality. I would want to run it through more paces and be assured there would be no further issues. Studios can't afford to have things hanging up in the middle of a job...and I don't enjoy the frustration when it happens during a session. I am only marginally confident I won't have any more issues if I push lots of instruments into the ST4 shell. The jury is still out on that one.