V-Vocal launch crashes CbB

[sdwest]

Hi all,

I still find good old V-Vocal useful for some specific things concerning vocals, IMO it does certain things that Melodyne cannot do.  

Seems V-Vocal is a 32 bit plug-in, but did run on CbB.  The V-Vocal panel would appear at the bottom, but you could not "float" it to another screen, so that was another issue that I learned to live with. Now, V-Vocal does not run at all on CbB latest version.  I have 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Sonar X1, X2 and X3 installed, and V-Vocal works as it should on both X1 and X2 32-bit programs.

My system is fully updated Windows 7 Pro x64.  

Can anyone help with this?
TIA,

Wade 

NW Illinois

[gmp]

2 hours ago, Richie_01 said:

In contrast to the usual ... guesswork postings I don't think its a 64-bit related issue. Rather there are conflicts with VSTi. Since support for  V-Vocal has ended, I came up with the following workaround:

-  do all basic operations such as comping, gain editing ... and bounce the pre-edited basic vocal tracks within the project file.
- then either export the tracks to a new "audio-only" (that is vocals + a bounced instrument track) project file or make a copy of your project file, bounce the instrument tracks to one audio track and delete all VSTi's thereafter.
- split the vocal tracks into parts which are convenient for V-Vocal (e. g. verse, chorus ...)
- the audio-only project file is free of conflicts with VSTi's and V-Vocal seems to perform nicely.
- when all the editing is done, bounce the edited tracks again and copy them back to the main project file.
- keep the "vocal only" project file just in case you want to rework some of the tracks later.

Yes, it is a little extra effort ... but hey it is free and usually you only need to do it once for every new song.

Best regards ?

You've come up with a good method, but you're right it's a lot of extra work. The method I've come up with is easier and I never get a V-Vocal crash. I do have Melodyne Assistant (found a great sale) and have learned how to use it, but prefer V-Vocal.

You're right there is some  conflict with the VSTi's that causes it to crash. Once you export the music only tracks Don't delete the soft synths, just disconnect each one. 

Then you can just import that music only track back into the same project and also not worry about bouncing the vocal tracks so that they're one seamless wav file. 

Maybe this works  because I close CbB right before I start using V-Vocal and then I reopen it by double clicking the file. This seems to be the key. Don't ever try to go from one project to the next, you have to close CbB and then reopen it with the file you want to use V-Vocal on. 

Maybe deleting the VSTi"s does the same thing as closing CbB and reopening. No need to create a new fresh CWP or do any bouncing. Try it - it's easy and works, never a crash.

[Terry Kelley]

 

At some it would be good to collect together the various actions we try to get V-Vocal to work once it decides to go south. I'd love to hear other's tricks. And yes,  we have beat the Melodyne option horse to death. This is about working around V-Vocals short comings.

For me, I try one or more of the following in this order.

1. Disable all effects. Strangely this works enough times to give it a try.

2. Bounce the clip. Try bouncing by itself, then try bouncing with adjacent clips, then give up and move to option 3.

3. Bounce to stereo then open V-Vocal. If it fails, convert to stereo and back to mono (if that is where you started.) Then try 4.

4. Close the program and restart. It rarely works but sometimes ....

5. Reduce the size of the clip to as short as possible and still be able to make the changes I want. It could be as small as 1 second. This is one of those solutions that makes me think V-Vocal is running into some other chunk of memory Cakewalk is using. Hence the C0000005 (you ain't supposed to be in here.)

6. Copy the track/clip to a new project but I almost always have to close the other project where the crash occurs or the new project will crash too. Make the changes and copy it back into the original project. I often copy an instrument track with the clip to help identify the pitch changes I want, but I add that with no effects. Either way, editing in a new project almost always works. I'd say 95%+.

7. If I get the empty V-Vocal window, I bounce the clip which works and/or convert to stereo and back to mono. but I usually have to close the project and restart. If Cronus or Vpenc don't decide to crash, the wave is usually there. If it crashes, I will be forced to option 6.

8. If the volume of the clip is low enough, you might find notes where you don't get the initial yellow pitch line. The waveform is there but no yellow level/pitch line. Exit V-Vocal and raise the gain of the clip 6db (or more) until you get the yellow line across the complete note. Edit the clip, render and then reduce the gain by that same amount. I see this at the end of long notes where there isn't enough signal for V-Vocal to follow it as the note decays. The line will end before the note actually does.

Most crashes are in Cronus and Vpenc. Once in awhile, Cakewalk will just close. I never see a VPSoloDec crash.

The reliable option 6 is a bit of a pain but once you start doing it you get pretty quick and it's faster than trying the other options first.  Just accept your destiny.

To gmp, your suggestions are exactly what I see but pretty much head for option 6. Moving the clip in memory seems to make it work again.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Terry Kelley

[gmp]

Good post, Terry. I did forget to say that I always work with small clips, one or two  vocal phrases and I immediately "bounce to clip". Then move to the next spot. I, as a habit, only have 1 project open at a time. I assume most V-Vocal users are already doing this.

I'm a pianist so my template always has Ivory, Superior Drums and Kontakt synths connected. So my RAM is about 3.5 gigs. About a month ago I did forget to close and reopen CbB and I got a crash right away - oops. My method has been working 100% for a year or 2. 

[Terry Kelley]

2 hours ago, gmp said:

Good post, Terry. I did forget to say that I always work with small clips, one or two  vocal phrases and I immediately "bounce to clip". Then move to the next spot. I, as a habit, only have 1 project open at a time. I assume most V-Vocal users are already doing this.

I'm a pianist so my template always has Ivory, Superior Drums and Kontakt synths connected. So my RAM is about 3.5 gigs. About a month ago I did forget to close and reopen CbB and I got a crash right away - oops. My method has been working 100% for a year or 2. 

Hi gmp,

If the project is really simple (less than 4-5 tracks), V-Vocal behaves well. Unfortunately I am a track and effect pig so it makes things worse for me. I am surprised Cakewalk keeps up with 40+ tracks with many having 3-4 effects. But damn ... it does. It's voodoo.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Terry Kelley
Removed ***** and changed it to pig. 'Cause, ya know.

[John Vere]

I got Assistant 5 for $99 on sale as an upgrade from Essential 4. I think I paid $99 for Essential 4 as an upgrade from the free version that came with X3. 

And yes I found a big difference in stability. My computer is not very powerful and I only have 12 GB of RAM. But once I watched the video on the new release and they showed very quickly how it actually works I started using it and within a short time I sort of mastered as much as I needed to master. I did the vocal tracks of about 10 songs that week...whoops,, I shouldn't admit I needed it  Ya I wouldn't pay that much for it either unless I made a living with it but sign up for Emails from them and eventually they'll have it on sale again.. I would hope>> 

Oh and by the way , I just opened V Vocal and it didn't crash, I'm 100% up to date both Cakewalk and W10. I didn't work with it but it seemed OK. I always found you had to use real short clips.. 

[Terry Kelley]

So you have $200 into it. Not bad.

[John Vere]

It was the same with Sonar. I had a free version of Guitar Studio came with my Roland keyboard.   I bought 8.5 for $100 off a friend who never had used it. ( still have the box)  I got X1 LE free with my Tascam interface. So almost a free ride for the first 10 years. 

I registered and signed up for emails ( this is the ticket) I got an offer to upgrade X1 LE ( the version I never used)  to X3 Studio for $99.  That turned into an upgrade to Sonar Professional for another $99. That turned into Sonar Platinum for another $150. So between 2004 and 2017 my total investment was under $500. I think that's the full price of the original Splat. What I can't remember is if I ever paid for any updates of Splat during the weird time for Sonar before it got the boot from Gibson.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by John Vere

[Mark D.]

Paging anyone who knows. I used SPLAT until Gibson sold it. I now have the very latest updated Cakewalk by Bandlab on a Win 10 64 bit home machine, working fine. Latest updates for Windows and Cakewalk. In the old days I opened V-Vocal by selecting it via Region FX (left click or drop down above). V-Vocal is no longer up there. Yes, I can work fine with Melodyne, but it doesn't offer the fine tuning I had with Roland V-Vocal. V-Vocal is still installed in my Machine as well as full working SPLAT I haven't used in years, haven't needed to. Can anyone advise how I can get V-Vocal to at least appear as Region FX , or, is there some other way I must access that now?

[John Vere]

You would have been better to start a new thread but not sure what you issue is because generally if you have The older Sonar version installed all of the goodies work in CbB including vvocal. But I think you need x3 or earlier. Read back in this thread and that is covered 

[gmp]

1 hour ago, Mark D. said:

Paging anyone who knows. I used SPLAT until Gibson sold it. I now have the very latest updated Cakewalk by Bandlab on a Win 10 64 bit home machine, working fine. Latest updates for Windows and Cakewalk. In the old days I opened V-Vocal by selecting it via Region FX (left click or drop down above). V-Vocal is no longer up there. Yes, I can work fine with Melodyne, but it doesn't offer the fine tuning I had with Roland V-Vocal. V-Vocal is still installed in my Machine as well as full working SPLAT I haven't used in years, haven't needed to. Can anyone advise how I can get V-Vocal to at least appear as Region FX , or, is there some other way I must access that now?

Mark, your answers are in this thread. Read all of scook posts and mine also. More than likely you didn't install the 64 bit V-Vocal and need to do a partial install of something, ether Sonar 8.5, X1 or X2. If I recall it's 8.5 64 bit.

 V-Vocal works perfectly with CbB. Using my method you'll never get a crash. I have Melodyne Assistant and essential, but still prefer V-Vocal

[scook]

28 minutes ago, gmp said:

Mark, your answers are in this thread. Read all of scook posts and mine also. More than likely you didn't install the 64 bit V-Vocal and need to do a partial install of something, ether Sonar 8.5, X1 or X2. If I recall it's 8.5 64 bit.

Keep in mind after a minimal install of SONAR, CbB must be re-installed or the shared folders will be out of date.

It may be easier to perform a simple uninstall of CbB before the minimal install of SONAR then re-install CbB.

[Franck Shigetora]

I had a lot of trouble with this problem, but I found a way around it.
When V-Vocal crashes, it is when a plug-in with high latency is inserted.
Try enabling the Bypass All FX button and then creating a V-Vocal clip.

[Jan Venken]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:04 PM, Franck Shigetora said:

I had a lot of trouble with this problem, but I found a way around it.
When V-Vocal crashes, it is when a plug-in with high latency is inserted.
Try enabling the Bypass All FX button and then creating a V-Vocal clip.

That might do the trick. The thing with cronus.dll (https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/20091009/Cronus-dll-Run-Time-Error-on-Playback-or-Faulting-Module) could also fix for you.
What worked for me is to open a different project, do a v-vocal on a track there. Close the project and open the project where v-vocal caused a crash. And shazam, no more crashes. Why? Don't know but if it helps...

[John Vere]

I always install Sonar 8.5 first on any new build. Not so much for the few goodies like V Vocal, but just to open it and marvel at how good it looks compared to what happened after with the X series. 
 

[sjoens]

So at least in my latest project, V-Vocal opens as usual but refuses to work. For me it's now dead. ?

[gmp]

I use V-Vocal all the time and if you use my method, outlined in one of these posts, you won't get a crash, unless one particular CWP is corrupted

[sjoens]

It seems to work now so probably just a glitch in the one project.

The main issue with VVocal is it opens in Multidock missing the right half of it's GUI. I have to pull it out of MD for the whole thing to show properly. It's done this ever since X3.

X2 and prior versions open VVocal in it's own window with no issues until you dock it in MD where it still chops off the right side.

Edited December 1, 2021 by sjoens

[Gh0stbuster]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:04 PM, Franck Shigetora said:

I had a lot of trouble with this problem, but I found a way around it.
When V-Vocal crashes, it is when a plug-in with high latency is inserted.
Try enabling the Bypass All FX button and then creating a V-Vocal clip.

Sorry for posting in an rather old topic - however, it is still a problem.

Thank you for this.

Allthough I must mention that that solution from gmp is also a solid one!

I struggled with this problem with V-Vocal for ages, and never can get a clue on what is working and what not.

I have bought Sonar X2 in the past and so am a legal user of V-Vocal.
I always install X2 on a new setup, and upgrade to Cakewalk latest version.
Everything except V-Vocal works extremely well - Cakewalk is such a great DAW.

I had a recent project which always crashed on a certain wav.
I tried to split in to little pieces - it works (sometimes)
Export to another empty project - it works (without splitting)
Disabling all effects by powering them off - Does NOT work - V-Vocal crashes.
Bypass All FX - button - In my own project with all VST-s and Effect on - Works!!!

I will keep on using this and hopefully it will be consistant.

[gmp]

Will Bypass All FX - button turns off Soft Synths? If so where is this button? I've always disconnected all my soft synths 1 at a time, save the CWP, then close CbB and double click the CbB file to reopen. That works every time