V-Vocal launch crashes CbB

[sdwest]

Hi all,

I still find good old V-Vocal useful for some specific things concerning vocals, IMO it does certain things that Melodyne cannot do.  

Seems V-Vocal is a 32 bit plug-in, but did run on CbB.  The V-Vocal panel would appear at the bottom, but you could not "float" it to another screen, so that was another issue that I learned to live with. Now, V-Vocal does not run at all on CbB latest version.  I have 32 bit and 64 bit versions of Sonar X1, X2 and X3 installed, and V-Vocal works as it should on both X1 and X2 32-bit programs.

My system is fully updated Windows 7 Pro x64.  

Can anyone help with this?
TIA,

Wade 

NW Illinois

[Ian Finlay]

Same here, Windows 10, 64bit v-vocal works with SPLAT but Bandlab version just crashes

[Jacques Boileau]

Surprisingly V-Vocal is not part of CbB but it is discussed at length in the user manual! ? Kind of wish it was available for those that Melodyne is too expensive.

[scook]

V-Vocal shipped as a 32 and 64bit DX plug-in. It was developed by Roland and not part of the sale to Gibson so, starting with X3, the plug-in could no longer be bundled with SONAR. Since Gibson did not own the product, it was not part of the IP purchased by BandLab.

The plug-in was last updated in 2011. Software does not age well. Regardless of its utility, relying on old, unmaintained, unsupported software is unwise.

That said, I just loaded up the plug-in into a new project in CbB and messed around with a clip without crashing the DAW. I am running Win10 though.

Providing the crash information to BandLab as suggested in the thread below may help the developers address the problem

 

[David Baay]

FWIW, V-Vocal is also launching fine and working nominally here in CbB under Win10 though I never use it.

[sdwest]

Thanks to all who responded.

I was not aware that V Vocal was also a 64 bit plug-in as well as 32 bit, I'll look into that further.  For right now, I'm using Windows 7, x64 and if I had my druthers, I'd continue to use it from now until someone comes out with an OS that works better for me.

I still use V-Vocal at times for some things that Melodyne does not do, and I have Melodyne 4 Studio.  At times I use it to fade a single syllable where I have had to edit off a bit of the ending or where it just sounds better that way.   A bigger attraction for me is the ability to enhance or add a little vibrato in places in a vocal, especially after a Melodyne treatment.  I don't use it often, but it does stuff that Melodyne doesn't do, it's non-destructive, and I think it helps me.  A year or so ago, I put in a feature request to Celemony for these features to be added to Melodyne, they were definitely interested, but apparently did not find it practical to do that as yet,  as I have heard nothing in a while.

I appreciate the discussion about this, apparently a few people feel as I do about it, so I will try to capture a crash dump for the CbB folks to see if they can maybe fix that.

Best wishes to all, stay healthy and stay safe.

Wade C.

[scook]

14 minutes ago, sdwest said:

I was not aware that V Vocal was also a 64 bit plug-in as well as 32 bit, I'll look into that further.

DX plug-ins are host bitness specific. 32bit DX plug-ins are not visible in 64bit DX hosts and 64bit DX plug-ins are not visible in 32bit DX hosts. IOW, when running a 64bit DAW only 64bit DX plug-ins are available.

[sdwest]

My crashes occur, near as I can determine, when using x64 versions of SPLAT and CbB with V-Vocal.  If I am working on a 32 bit file, with SPLAT X1 or X2, V-Vocal seems to work fine for me.  This is why I made that statement.

 

 

[sdwest]

scook, 

I have submitted my dump file to Bandlab, so we'll see what happens.  It's my first time doing this, so I'm hoping I did it correctly, and that they understand that I am not asking them to source or support V-Vocal, but perhaps look into the Cakewalk end to see if something is getting in the way of running V-Vocal.

Wade C.

 

 

[sdwest]

I heard from Cakewalk about this situation, here is his reply.  Notice there is NO reference to a 64-bit version of this plugin.  I did his suggestion, but nothing is changed.  I think I'll just have to be content using my 32 bit versions of Sonar when I need V-Vocal.  Thanks to all for contributing.

Wade C.

 

"Hey Sdwest,

Thanks for reaching out! Sorry for the trouble. V-vocal is an old 32-bit plug-in and is not expected to work well with Cakewalk by BandLab, which is a native 64-bit program. Although Cakewalk uses BitBridge to allow use of 32-bit plug-ins, it's reliability is not guaranteed. 

What you can try is; check your plug-in manager under DirectX Audio Effects (DX). Click the Show Disabled option at the bottom and see if you have Cronus.dll under the disabled list. If it is, please enable it. Close Cakewalk and relaunch to see if it still crashes. 

Hope to hear back from you soon!

Best regards,
Freed"

[scook]

A couple of things this support person got right are V-Vocal is a DX plug-in and 32bit VST plug-ins while supported with BitBridge may have reliability problems. Given that the support person should know that

• 32bit DX plug-ins cannot load into a 64bit host
• Bitdrige does not work with DX plug-ins

I can assure you the V-Vocal running in your 64bit DAWs is 64bit.

Cronus is excluded by design in the plug-in manager because V-Vocal is not intended to show up as a regular plug-in. Changing the excluded flag for this plug-in is not the right thing to do.

Pretty sure someone with more experience may have handled this differently. Maybe @Mike B can review this.

FYI

13 hours ago, sdwest said:

If I am working on a 32 bit file, with SPLAT X1 or X2, V-Vocal seems to work fine for me.

The data files are the same whether working in 32bit SONAR or 64bit SONAR/CbB. The difference is the software. V-Vocal is a DX plug-in. The 32bit X1 and X2 are loading a different plug-in from the 64bit DAWs. X1, X2 and V-Vocal were all developed and tested on Win 7. CbB is developed and tested on Win10 along with the later versions of Platinum.

I cannot say if any of this matters but these are some of the differences between the software mention in this thread.

[sdwest]

scook,

I'm not sure it matters any more either because it doesn't appear to be a fixable "problem", if it ever really was a problem.  It is interesting as a discussion topic I think.

Two things still puzzle me, hearing what you have already explained about V-Vocal.

1, At some point in the past, V-Vocal DID in fact work in CbB with Windows 7, the panel located itself lower right and could not be undocked and moved (inconvenient, but still useable).

2. I find it very intriguing that V-Vocal will only still work in the 32 bit version of Sonar X2 but will not work in the 64 bit version of Sonar X2, Sonar Platinum or CbB.

Also at some point in the past, maybe around the same time V-Vocal stopped working in CbB, I completely updated my Windows 7 pro x64 OS, since I knew I would not get support for it any longer.  It could well be that I should have just left my Win7 OS alone and not updated.

In any event, I appreciate your insights, not everyone in this community has the knowledge and expertise, but even at my age I am interested enough to try to keep learning.

Wade C.

[scook]

It could be updating the OS is the cause IDK. I stopped using Win7 in 2014.

I have no recent experience with 32bit DAWs either migrating to 64bit X1 in 2011.

I do not use V-Vocal but keep it installed for testing purposes. For this thread,

• I created a region FX clip using V-Vocal
• manipulated the clip in V-Vocal
• floated the V-Vocal window
• docked the V-Vocal window
• saved the project while shutting down CbB
• restarted CbB and loaded the project
• rendered the V-Vocal clip

There were some issues: 

• V-Vocal would not maximize in the mutlidock. It may be trapping the keystrokes. I could resize with the mouse though.
• once undocked, the only way to get the plug-in back into the multidock was using the menu

Granted the tests were not exhaustive and V-Vocal was never noted for being extremely stable in either 32 or 64bit hosts.

[Terry Kelley]

Never mind. Wishful thinking.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Terry Kelley

[sdwest]

Terry, thanks for that info.

I tried that but it still doesn't work for me.  If I try to use CbB x64 V-Vocal on a file that was created in a 32 bit version it will work, but won't work with a file created with the 64 bit version of CbB.  

Incidentally, the newest release Melodyne 5.0 contains new tools that largely negate the necessity of using V-Vocal such as the ability to manipulate vibrato and do fades, don't know if that's good or not.  I am still going to hang on to V-Vocal, just because!  :)

Wade

Windows 10 Pro x64, 16G Ram, Gigabyte MoBo, Intel i7, 500G SSD.  Etc., etc., etc...

[Terry Kelley]

Yeah, it looked good at first but on more testing, it crashes either Cronus or Vpenc.

[Colin Nicholls]

I suggest re-installing 64-bit SONAR X2, then re-installing CbB. All the 64-bit DX plugins installed with X2 should be available to CbB.

[gmp]

 I have Melodyne assistant, but still prefer to use V-Vocal. For me to prevent it from crashing, I have to disconnect all soft synths. Then save and close the file and double click the file to reopen it. You can't go from one file to the V-Vocal file, you must close CbB first then reopen it by double clicking the file.  Doing this seems to clear out the RAM. Once I do that V-Vocal never crashes.

 It seems to have something to do with RAM. My template with the soft synths uses 3.5 gigs of RAM. After I tune a clip I bounce it to track to eliminate V-Vocal. I only work in small clips and it never crashes working this way with CbB. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by gmp
more info

[Richie_01]

In contrast to the usual ... guesswork postings I don't think its a 64-bit related issue. Rather there are conflicts with VSTi. Since support for  V-Vocal has ended, I came up with the following workaround:

-  do all basic operations such as comping, gain editing ... and bounce the pre-edited basic vocal tracks within the project file.
- then either export the tracks to a new "audio-only" (that is vocals + a bounced instrument track) project file or make a copy of your project file, bounce the instrument tracks to one audio track and delete all VSTi's thereafter.
- split the vocal tracks into parts which are convenient for V-Vocal (e. g. verse, chorus ...)
- the audio-only project file is free of conflicts with VSTi's and V-Vocal seems to perform nicely.
- when all the editing is done, bounce the edited tracks again and copy them back to the main project file.
- keep the "vocal only" project file just in case you want to rework some of the tracks later.

Yes, it is a little extra effort ... but hey it is free and usually you only need to do it once for every new song.

Best regards ?

Edited May 16, 2021 by Richie_01
full reply instead of link

[John Vere]

I was a V Vocal hold out up until this fall when I finally sat down and figured out Melodyne. I had grabbed the upgrade to Melodyne 5 on sale so had incentive to make it work after all these years of giving up. If you do take the time to learn Melodyne you would never use V Vocal again. Trust me. 

[Terry Kelley]

No doubt. It appears the equivalent is Assistant for $300. Just from my comparison. Is 5 more stable than the previous versions?

In the meantime some of us will share our V-Vocal workarounds.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Terry Kelley