Maestro

The product is basically out of development. It's kept around to milk it for whatever they can, and to keep the prices of Pro/Suite product SKUs (Samplitude Pro X, ACID Pro) high. I don't find the sounds that great. The orchestral sounds, for example, are worse than what you get from SONiVOX Orchestral Companions, Logic Pro X Factory Library, or even SampleTank 4 (not talking about Miroslav Philharmonik CE/2). It is also missing some instruments that are useful, but has a ton of "exotic" patches that most people will never use. The Synth Sounds are usable, but for that most are better off just getting the AIR Synths and/or Synthmaster (whatever SKU they choose). I do agree that the UI is really in need of a major of a major facelift. The fonts they use are horrible. The menus are pretty bad. It's not scalable. The patch browser is terrible. ----- That being said, this is a really low price and I recommend people who need a Sampler Workstation with a "usable" Factory Library, and they don't own anything else. Not worth it if you have Kontakt 6, HALion 6, or Total Studio MAX 2/SampleTank 4 (MAX), though. It will likely just sit there unused. 65GB is a lot of space to waste on an SSD. Imagine how great MAGIX's products could be if they invested more in development and UI/UX design, as well as integrating their products better (i.e. the way HALion is integrated into Cubase, or the way PreSonus integrates their stuff into Studio One)...

You can program drums in the Piano Roll, but that's kind of a different thing, anyways. Even if they add a Sampler, those same people will stay on other DAWs because the Step Sequencer in DAWs like Studio One, Ableton, Reason, FL Studio, and others is so much better. So, you'd be back to square one, asking for another thing "so you don't have to tell people Cakewalk doesn't do that and stop them from using Lite or Trial version of other DAWs." Getting a better Step Sequencer and using a 3rd party Sampler is a far superior choice to getting a first party Sampler and sitting on the current Step Sequencer for another 2 years - during which Cakewalk's reputation as a "bad production DAW" will be further solidified.

Thank you very much!

One can blame the sampler, but one can also say that the Step Sequencer can easily have a setting to set the Root Note. I would never argue that an out-of-the-box Sampler (1st party) wouldn't achieve that. I think the issue is balancing the priority of specific feature suggestions. A sampler is something that can easily just be added to any DAW. People have been adding Samplers to Pro Tools for years, and producing all types of music with it. While I agree with the feature request, in essence, I don't agree with the type of urgency that seems to have been applied to it (nor do I think it is the killer feature that someone - not you, necessarily - think it will be). Cakewalk already has a Matrix View that actually it closer to the creative side of DAWs like Live before other DAWs added in the feature. It is still borderline impossible to "guerrilla market" the DAW based on this. Though we can definitely say it was developed more thoroughly when DP and Logic added them in - they did so MUCH later. People on forums like /r/MusicProduction and /r/EDMProduction are literally countering by telling people to use Ableton Live LITE instead of Cakewalk by BandLab, and people are doing so. No clarification needed, we have had this discussion here, before. That is why Live and FL are so popular, and why DAWs like Studio One and Cubase are adding features that appeal to people producing electronic music. The workflow being harder for those other DAWs has little to do with the lack of a Sampler, IMHO. Someone equally profient in both Cakewalk and FL Studio will throw beats together faster in FL Studio than in Cakewalk. The entire workflow in FL Studio is designed for high productivity composition of that type of content. On the flip side, FL Studio is a bad DAW if you want to record a band, etc. Cakewalk complete trounces it, there. I guess that's kind of my point. The reality of the situation is that there is really no one killer feature that is causing people to go there instead of come here. It's a combination of things that all add up into a total that is massive to those people. A Sampler won't make the Matrix View or Step Sequencer any better. It won't give it better controller support. It won't give it better drum map creation & management. It won't give it MPE. It won't give it a ton of Virtual Instruments/Synths/Samples/etc. that (in some cases) can replace popular software products that retail in the $99-200 range (Sampler, Wavetable, Operator, DrumSynths, etc.). It won't give Cakewalk Live's famed Audio Warping. So, we have to ask ourselves, what is more important? It's a hard job, developing software for such a diverse audience of users ? As far as Cakewalk being "not good" for production, that depends on your reference. If you're comparing it to something like ACID Pro or Pro Tools, then I think it's "not too bad." If you compare it to the best of the best, then that clearly gives you a different perspective. I think you need to view things in whole, not just as a comparison between the cream of the crop. If they prefer the DAW they use, yes. People do it all the time. Look at every Pro Tools user who does Hip Hop, EDM, Trap, and other genres. There are scores of them. Also, there are quite a few people in Europe using Samplitude Pro for this type of production, and that DAW has even less tooling biased to those genres than Cakewalk. They pay a lot for the DAW, buy the "software accessories," and go about their lives because they prefer to work in that DAW. None of that will matter if you don't enjoy working in a specific environment, so people tend to prefer to supplement what they like than jump around just for one or two features - that's how many of us wasted thousands "trying out different DAWs" over the years ? FL Studio has a workflow (and indeed, even a UX) that is polarizing. People either like it or hate it. I personally could never pay to use that software. I find it impossible to work in, as it gets VERY messy. Cakewalk, on other hand, is more like Logic Pro. I like organization. Citation Needed™ This is normal. The software is more accessible due to the lack of a price tag. That is a good thing. Cakewalk is very well known in the DAW market. It just isn't as relevant in the market segments you've cited in your posts. I hope so, because I think it's stupid to pay for a DAW when you're literally just starting out and don't even know what you want or need, yet. Figuring out your personal requirements takes time. Everything helps, especially when it's free. Aforementioned, it's about balancing the priorities (for the Devs). Articulations were requested for years, but Cakewalk is known for not having the best Video Support, and people have been begging for updates/fixes to the Staff Editor since ever... So, professionals who compose to film are still going to - largely - stay on DAWs like Cubase, Logic, and Digital Performer due to those being better suited for that kind of work. Cakewalk can't even interchange AAF files from NLEs like Media Composer or Premiere Pro. The lack of a Sampler is not what's keeping people off of Cakewalk. There are probably 25 other features that cannot be replaced by a free plugin that will register higher in people's "need to have" list. No one is arguing that a sampler wouldn't add value. I am arguing that adding one is not going to necessarily bring more people to use it, becausue the disparity in features between Cakewalk and something like FL and Ableton is more down to workflow and capabilities that cannot easily be replaced by a stock plugin. Anyone who wants a Sampler in Cakewalk already has one that works fairly well. Going back to: I'd like to see: Better Marker Management Better Tempo Editing Tempo, Marker Tracks Folder Nesting Improved Drum Map Creation/Management MusicXML Import Better Track Handling (Track Selection, for example, can use improvement - or rather, be made more intuitive) More Ambitious: Chord Tools (Chord Track/Pads) VCA Faders Staff View/Editor Improvements Better Video Engine Sample Editor

Not an error on your part, but mine, as I'm referring more holistically to what is also being discussed in another thread on the same topic.

Is there a CAL Manual Anywhere? Does anyone have one - a PDF version (or even a Help File) that they can share? (CAL, the Scripting/Extensibility mechanism for Cakewalk)

Uh... What? That's quite the oxymoron. People depended on them because that is what they had and using the Sampler completely offset any perceived issues some people may have had with them. The benefits far outweighed the deficits. Either you use the Sampler, or you waste countless hours manually doing (with DAW tools) what it does much better out of the box. Like I said, CPU Intensity depends on your spec package. What CPU is in your PC? I am not seeing Serum-level CPU use with Komplete Kontrol on my systems (Laptop and Desktop), so I'm not really understanding where this is coming from. When using KK as a Sampler Track, you are not running Synths or Virtual Instruments in Komplete Kontrol. You're simply loading the Sample into the instance, using the Sample Editor to edit to taste, and then playing it back chromatically via a MIDI Track. I am not asking anyone to load Massive X in Komplete Kontrol. This works pretty much identically - for the most part - to the FL Studio Sampler Channel plugin, which itself is not free in terms of processing. FL is popular with Beatmakers. Producers in the EDM/Trance/etc. genres tend to bias HEAVILY to Live, and most people go straight to Live Suite (and, increasingly, Bitwig with people really into sound design). FL is popular with Hip Hop and Trap Producers who like it's pattern-based production features. Lastly, FL Studio is known for having some pretty CPU inefficient plugins. Even things like the stock Parametric EQ is known to be fairly CPU intensive, in comparison to third party plugins or stock plugins in other DAWs. Being a first party bundled plugin does not guarantee it will be free of bugs, be CPU efficient, or never (rather, hardy ever) crash. History has disproven this theory, time and time again. The sale is guaranteed when it's running. I'm pretty sure the Sale was advertised in the Deals section of this forum (Edit: Yep, sure was). I mention this mostly becausue people keep talking about Sitala. (Groove Agent 5 includes 30GB+ of content... ?) This makes no sense, given the number of third party samplers on the market. I didn't. I think what is available often works well. You're just cherry picking the few that you don't think work "well enough" because you're pushing for a first-party option (because you're convinced that they are better de facto, which is [usually] not [always] the case). That as my point. The topic lead-off was constructed in a way that basically prohibits mention of viable third party options to leave room only for what the OP wants. If the bakers spent all of their time adding features redundant with easily accessible plugins, then when are they actually going to get around to doing things like improving the Staff View, Adding VCAs, Improving Drum Maps, etc. You know, things you cannot "just fix with a plugin." The reason why Articulation Lanes and the Arranger Matter is precisely for this reason. I cannot just go to N-I and download an Arranger View for Cakewalk, or an Articulation Manager/Lane. I can go there and get a Sampler, for free, and it works... very well. I can cherry pick areas of Cakewalk that aren't great and tell people that it's a horrible DAW and they should just default to Live or FL for production, but you'd make the same argument that I am making - for exactly the same reasons I am making it. In fact, that is exactly what everyone here was doing when the DAW was criticized for including very old, out of date stock plugins... Telling the people complaining they should just go and download MeldaProduction Freebies, etc. The market being chock full of third-party options is going to make any argument based around assumptive "first party is always better" look weak. The reason why people go to FL or Ableton has to do with the workflow and features of those DAWs beyond a native Sampler (or even Sample Editor, which I really want). People are leaving FL or Ableton for Pro Tools, Cubase, Digital Performer, etc. just because they have a Sampler. And the fact that most people going to Live are going straight to Live Suite ($750) tells me that price is not really a factor to many of these people. The reason why many people use FL Studio (the upstarts, anyways) is because it is easily pirated. So, as far as those people are concerned, the price of Cakewalk and FL Studio are the same. In addition to that, there is a MASSIVE amount of Tutorial content for Production of those genres of music (Trap, Hip Hop, Trance, EDM, D&B, etc.) in those DAWs. Courses on Groove3. Production Templates everywhere. Presets and FX Chains available for their Instruments/Synths. The same ecosystem of content does not exist for Cakewalk. At the end of the day, it's the workflow, feature disparity, and mindshare disparity that keeps peopel off of Cakewalk - not the lack of a Sampler. That is a trivial problem to solve. The others aren't. Many EDM producers are already using Samplers like Battery, etc. for Drums, anyways. I am constantly pushing for people to go with Cakewalk when they ask about what "cheap/free" DAW to use, and it's hard to get them on board because the music production user base is very pro-piracy; and you cannot use price as a competitive advantage. Also, these people love to bandwagon what is popular, or heavily used, and will get FL Studio or Live simply so that they can say they use it and tap into the ecosystem of users and content out there. Using Ableton Live is like buying a MacBook or Gucci shoes to these people. It's basically the luxury brand of Music Production. FL is often nothing more than the illegitimately acquired fallback for people who can't afford Live. Same thing happens with Reaper for recording/mixing. People will literally argue with you that REAPER is "free," when it very clearly is not. I've grown exasperated trying to fight against that, and I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to DAWs (or, rather, equally critical across the board). Adding a first party Sampler isn't even the tip of the ice berg as far as getting "Live Kiddies" onto Cakewalk. This is going to be like getting Recording Studios off of Pro Tools. Good Luck. And I should also mention that quite a few Performance and Pad Controllers are designed for Live, and don't work nearly as well with Cakewalk (or many other DAWs).

People have been depending on them for decades and doing just fine. What makes them so dependable in other DAWs for other people, but so undependable in Cakewalk/SONAR for you? What you have written... is not very convincing. But I'm not opposed to adding it. I just think the rationale (designed to avoid people suggesting alternative solutions) is rather weak ? Steinberg had a 50% off sale on Groove Agent 5 not long ago. Not sure how people can want a Drum Sampler so bad, yet ignore a deal like that. I could never use Sitala. Feels like generic F/OSS, and isn't really offering the functionality that would mamke it worth running a whole plugin to do what it does. I'd rather just create Drum Kit patches in my multi-timbral Sampler, which has better Sample Editing, FX, and Modulation options than that.

I already did all of the Philharmonik Solo and Ensemble Instruments like a month ago, a couple of days after the Articulation Maps Beta were released. I'm pretty sure someone is still mirroring the download.

Honestly, I think a sample editor is a lot more important than a sampler - the two not being mutually exclusive. I also think that would be a far easier transition for the Loop Construction View.

VEGAS Pro is basically a prosumer-tier NLE, at this point. I know it has many fans, but realistically, it's below Edius Pro tier, at this point. DaVinci Resolve is a complete post production suite aimed at the pro market, and pretty much the industry standard finishing platform. HitFilm Pro is comparable to Apple Motion 5, with some Video Editing features grafted onto it. It's not a great NLE, but it gets the job done. It's a much better Motion Graphics and VFX app, even if not at the level of something like After Effects or Fusion in their respective market segments. Video Pro X is basically Movie Edit Pro Premium with some Prosumer features added onto it. Did buy the first bundle. Uninstalled after a day or so because I didn't find the software useful. It also uses a ton of disk space. I do pick these things up just to secure upgrade rights, in case the developer miraculously pushes out a mega update that makes it more competitive (though that is a pipe dream with MAGIX). If you already got the VEGAS Pro 15 bundle a while back, then I see no reason to get the Video Pro X bundle, especially if you already got the HitFilm/Ignite Pro bundle. Video Pro X MSRPs for $399, but you can upgrade to it from any MAGIX video App, even the Photo Slide Show app they gave away on Humble Bundle for almost nothing multiple times. The MSRP is not really indicative of the software's worth - not to mention you have to consider that price in comparison to competing products within the same market segment. Would you really pay $399 for Video Pro X when you can get DaVinci Resolve Studio for $299? I know very few people who would make that choice. MAGIX always lists high prices for their software (or tells you that the package is worth $1,100+ or some B.S.), but it's impractical to ever buy at those prices. The prices are set high so that the constant promotions they run (almost a perpetual sale) look better. It's a marketing tactic. They do this for almost all of their software. It's on sale like 8-9 months out of the year, at times. The software they acquired from Sony has inhereted this. The reason why they put the software on humble bundle (always an old version) is to get people to buy cheap and then upgrade for $150. I was surprised when FXhome put the latest versions of HFP and Ignite Pro on HB (even though they were only one installation licenses), very few companies do that. The only other example I can remember is Corel and Pinnacle, who put Pinnacle Studio 23 Ultimate on HB just weeks after it was released. Also, the latest version of PaintShop Pro Ultimate was put on Humble Bundle.

Yes, I'm going there. Because you cannot argue against psychology. Saying they sound fuller and that it's noticeable is not the end of any argument. That's your own perception of the sound. There is nothing objective or scientific about it. See if the sounds cancel out, as is the case with almost any DAW that isn't designed to deliver a specific sound character (i.e. MixBus 32C). In almost all cases, they do when you feed the same sound into the DAW and use the same processing on them (i.e. the same plugins, not different plugins that "do the same thing"). In the past, it was common that some DAWs sounded difference because the audio engines were, then, less developed. Some DAWs (like Samplitude, for example) were far more advanced than others (like Pro Tools, for example) in that area. But, times have changed, and there is relative parity there, except - aforementioned - in cases where the DAWs use a processing chain designed to deliver a specific sound character. Lastly, why so defensive? You act as if I personally attacked you with that statement? I'm growing tired of these childish responses whenever someone tries to have a mature discussion about a topic. There is always that one person who turns it into a pissing match. No one cares what DAW you use, ultimately. We don't do your work for you, and we don't have to listen to your music, either.

This argument about DAWs sounding different needs to die. If there is a difference, it's largely due to the processing chain or the plugins used. In some case the DAW is designed to sound different. But DAWs generally null with each other. That is a solved problem and hasn't been a thing for about a decade, if not more, yet people are still willing to have that conversation. It's like arguing with a flat earther.

A decent DSLR or Cinema Camera is going to wipe the floor with an iPhone in terms of image quality in the video. It really isn't a comparison, and while iPhones are used in some capacity by some (or many) filmmakers we are still a few years away from a time when you can shoot an entire film on iPhones and have it turn out to be visually comparable in quality to what you get with a better camera. Not to mention, the damned things do nothing but constantly overheat while trying to shoot scenes with them. The price of an iPhone Pro is comparable to a Blackmagic Cinema Camera 4K, and you're probably going to spend a few hundred on Lenses and other attachments just to make it usable - while spitting out difficult to edit, variable framerate compressed CODECs. For most people, it just isn't worth it. I get that some people want to be trail blazers, though, but I can't sit through a movie shot on an iPhone because I can see the image quality issues plain as day - especially on something as huge as a movie theater/cinema screen. ---- As for DaVinci Resolve: BYO-GPU. 4GB VRAM for FHD if you plan on using the Color/Fusion Pages, and 8GB for UHD/4K. You also need a decently fast GPU, because it does all image processing on the GPU. Bias to Nvidia (on Windows)... I think the price is right, though. For $299, it's the best NLE in the $200-600 price range by a decent margin. The only thing close in that bracket is Apple's Pro Apps Bundle.

I wonder how many library developers are struggling due to the inability for their libraries to run in Kontakt Player without additional licensing costs...

This was released almost a month or so ago.

Articulations are mapped, by default, outside of the playable range of the instrument. So, this is nothing more than extra work that is totally unnecessary. You will not hit C0 while playing a Violin Patch, for example. No Violin plays a C0. The same way you won't hit C5 while playing a Double Bass patch. The point of Articulation Maps is that you don't have to use a controller to key the switches. You play the notes in and then you apply the articulations later - the same way you would if you were playing them into Notation Software. You don't have to remember the KS for each library. The Articulation Map does that for you. The only time that tis even a factor is if you are trying to play an instrument live while switching articulations - and the maps are a complete non-factor in that scenario.

Definitely a binary file that is not easily viewed ?

Logical Cores are due to SMP - basically, AMD's version of HyperThreading (or SMT, in Intel Parlance). This has existed since the days of the Pentium 4, back in 2004 or so. It used to be common that people recommended turning off SMT for Audio applications, but I don't know how this guidance applies today. Many DAWs have been updated to properly support this. It's possible that some haven't... I get massive issues with Focusrite interfaes not playing back audio cleanly on my desktop, and it's possible that this is due to SMT. Samplitude has similar issues on my Laptop, which is a 4C/8T Intel i7 CPU using the same interface. Some PCs let you turn SMT off, but most laptops do not ? Historically, SMT was great for i.e. Video Editing, but had a habit of introducing issues in DAWs.

Reverb is largely ignorable and most people will buy a better plugin, anyways. iZotope R44 is $29 and will obsolete pretty much any stock Algorithmic Reverb in any DAW ? A lot of the Reverbs in Cakewalk are basically Demo Ware (ReMatrix/BREVERB). I've never used Sonitus, since I have better, anyways. Same with the Dynamics plugins. I have better, so I've never really used much outside of the PC EQ. Cakewalk's Sonitus plug-ins are a lot more "Legacy," and out of development, than REAPER's ReaPlugs. As for things "sounding way more fuller" in one DAW or another, one has to factor in Confirmation Bias and Placebo Effect.

The layout and browsing interface is what I'm referring to. No one can find fault in those aspects of Kontakt's UX.

I'm quoting the MSRP. The price outside of promotions. On the topic of IK Multimedia - the slowest shipping I've ever experienced. Ordered with 2 Day FedEx shipping, and they still haven't given the package to FedEx 4-5 Days later. Have to travel soon, so the package may get stolen while I'm away if they don't send it, soon. Doing a quick Google, I'm now finding horror stories about their shipping (taking too long, shipping wrong products, etc.). Ugh...

Nope, it downloads and installs the update on its own. You only use BandLab Assistant for the initial installation of Cakewalk by BandLab (and any other components you want, like Drum Replacer for example). Once it's installed, you can immediately uninstall the Assistant and just use the DAW itself to keep up to date.

For people who just need the non-orchestral samples ST4 is more than enough. The sounds are actually pretty good. The issue I have is that the software is not set up great for browsing and finding the sounds. The folder view is not as good as the docked browser in ST3 (which works like the Kontakt Browser). You're constantly having to jump between screens. With ST3, setting up multis, etc. is far quicker. For Orchestral Libraries, you can easily just buy something else and it isn't really much of a loss. The other stuff in TSM2/ST4M easily is worth the price you pay for it (esp. during these promotional periods). You can just ignore the Philharmonik 2 stuff ? Beyond that, no, you don't need to supplement SampleTank with stuff like Addictive Keys, etc. unless you simply prefer the character of one of those instruments. It comes with everything you need to make music. That's the biggest selling point of the package - similar to NI Komplete. Once you get it, you can [largely] stop wasting time looking at other stuff.

Nope. You can use cheaper libraries and get better patches. For example, the Legato violin patches sound absolutely horrendous. Amadeus uses scripted legato, and sounds much better. That's only a $149 orchestral library. Many people getting into this look for a free or cheap DAW because DAWs like Cubase and Digital Performer are quite expensive, and Logic Pro X is macOS-only. Everyone has to start somewhere. Go to VI-Control. There are lots of upstarts looking for budget friendly options that work well, and I happily recommend CbB to them ? In any case, I ordered the physical package of this. We did a gift exchange with family and I had my niece put in the order. Thought I was saving money until she asked for an Apple Watch SE...