Maestro

It doesn't surprise me that you're surprised. FL Studio hasn't been a toy since over a decade ago. It's development speed is somewhat of a marvel, too. It grew up VERY fast. It's also, practically, industry standard in the Trap and Hip Hop production markets. Not supporting FL Studio pretty much shuts you out of those markets, for the most part... It is a very large market that you are de facto ceding to Nektar, Akai, Arturia, and other competitors. Not supporting Cakewalk is ignorable because the markets where it was strongest have been completely run over by Studio One and REAPER, among others. The market share isn't there to justify investing in and maintaining support. Cakewalk can force itself back into that conversation by increasing its market share. Perpetuating divisive stances on DAW choice doesn't help, as it forwards this culture of "Must Choose One." That will not work in Cakewalk's favor, at this particular juncture. I notice Nektar doesn't cite SONAR/Cakewalk support with the latter product lines, either. That's a shame. In any case, most controllers do have HUI support (that likely doesn't apply to Native Instruments, though I may be wrong). I do, however, find it surprising that you call FL Studio a "Toy Sequencer" and refer to Cakewalk as an "Increrdible One." The fact that FL Studio is such an amazing Pattern-Based Sequencer and Beat Making Solution - with an incredible Piano Roll - while Cakewalk's Sequencers, etc. feel half-developed is probably why it has been able to be so successful and take over those markets. FL Studio is used for everything from Trap and Hip Hop to Orchestral and Film Scoring. The only DAWs even approaching FL Studio in its "concentration" (primary market) areas are Beat Making DAWs like Native Instruments Machine and AKAI MPC 2, and FL Studio usually wins out over them because of Lifetime Free Updates and better plugins/instruments. Cakewalk doesn't even Register in that conversation. It's great at mixing, and that's why it's worth having both it and FL Studio if you don't mind learning how to use two DAWs. Produce or Sequence in FL, Arrange and/or Mix in Cakewalk. FL can be hosted in other DAWs, so instead of poo pooing them, advocate their use so people don't drop Cakewalk wholesale when they realize the deficiencies in its tooling vs. those other DAWs (which, in some cases, specialize in those areas). This is why VST, ReWire, etc. exists. So we don't have to fight petty DAW wars. We can create allies, instead. Lastly, most people only care about what a DAW can do for them today, not what it couldn't do for them 15 years ago.

It's not less of a chore than I think. It's definitely more. The DAW is missing quite a few things that are in a Sample Editor. Yes, some things are in-common when we talk about DAWs and Audio Editors. They both work with Audio, so that is expected. The more I think about this, and I've been trying out "options" to see if there is anything to recommend beyond what was mentioned in these threads, the more I think that frankly... maybe RIGHT NOW this isn't the best DAW for Electronic Music Production or Beat Making. Maybe it is just worth using a different DAW to get that done, even if you prefer to Mix in Cakewalk by BandLab. There are very few good Sampling Options out there, especially for < $50. Tools like Battery, Groove Agent, Geist, etc. cost enough that you're better off just buing Studio One Artist and using Sample One/Impakt XT there... cheaper. I think this is simply a reality that some people will have to live with, for the time being. Similar to how no one is hounding Avid to make Pro Tools an EDM Production paradise. IMO, Cakewalk is more similar to Pro Tools than it is to something like Ableton Live... or even Studio One... when it comes to accommodating the production of that type of music.

Just this one is only like 4.5GB

Indeed. I'm actually considering wiping out my IK Directory and reinstalling the sample libraries without Syntronik, because I think that's the part that I'm least likely to use heavily. Will save me like 60GB of Space on my Sample Drive, and that's kind of a lot of bytes!

Being perceived as difficult to use isn't really related to the functionality offered by an application. That just speaks to its ease-of-use ? I actually think they intended it to be the Sampler in Samplitude Pro X, and potentially be a competitive advantage vs. other DAWs which only ship rompler versions of their samplers with their DAW - Cubase and Digital Performer being pretty big examples of this. The DAW just isn't attractive to the EDM and Pop/Hip Hop types that are funneling money into that market, right now. Samplitude and Sequoia have settled largely in the Analogue Recordinig and Mastering Niches. Those people don't really need Independence.

Kontakt complaints is mostly because of the size of it. The layout is much better than Indy, and the fonts used in Indy are disrespectful. The menus are also pretty terrible. The library does have some good sounds, but there is no way to download only the parts you want. Either you waste 50GB+ getting it all, or you just take a pass and use something else. Plus, other samples have much better editing interfaces, scripting in multiple cases, and far better compatibility with third party sampler and file formats (Kontakt, EXS24, HALion SFZ, REX/REX2, etc.). The only way to get any of that stuff into Independence is to buy another utility that retails in the $80-100+ range. It definitely had potential for use in Live Performance. MAGIX is like the Corel of Creative Software. The sampler has gotten a few bug fix updates since MAGIX has acquired it. The Libraries have gotten literally no update. For the non-promotional price of Independence Pro Premium, you can [just about] get HALion 6, HSampleTank 4 MAX or Kontakt. Promotions are the only thing that make it vaguely attractive, and unfortunately the competition usually goes on sale during many of the same time periods.

I was thinking just Syntronik, but yea, if you have TSM + SampleTank 4 MAX... The fee to reinstate the downloads is non-factor because who wants to ever have to download all of that again, anyways. IK needs to hire some DSP programmers to just create a Synth like MODO Bass & Drums that emulates these analogue synths...

Anyone downloading sample libraries that weight in the tens of GBs should know better than to not buy a cheap drive HDD to back them up to, Lol.

Lol... Why? VST2 and 3 are distinguished from each other in the browser both by their icon (DirectX, VST, and VST3 all have different icons) as well as their Text Color. That's a lot of extra work for nothing, especially given VST3 are often automatically sorted into categories, so you're literally moving them all out to a different category... instead of just creating them for the VST2 which often show up as "Uncategorized" - assuming they aren't automatically hidden because the VST3 is also installed (happens for a lot of my Plugins i.e. all of IK Multimedia's plugins and instruments, and is SONAR/Cakewalk's default setting).

Still heavily used in the Legal market. Has features taht Microsoft Word does not, and it's a lot better at formatting documents to specific specifications (because of Reveal Codes). Don't see it going away super soon ?

That idea makes no sense (no meant to be offensive). Sitala is not an Audio Editor. It's a really weak, but free, Drum Sample player. Think SI-Drums, with the ability to load your own Samples into it. That's basically what Sitala is, and it has practically no sound design capabilities beyond extremely basic stuff that anything else includes. Who is going to turn Sitala into an "actual" Sampler? It isn't even close to the stock drum plugins that come with other DAWs. That is not to knock the developers. It just isn't an attractive solution - especially when alternatives that are substantially better are routinely very cheap (cause we live in times where companies are almost inventing holidays to have promotional pricing ono their products). A Drum Machine and a Sampler are not the same thing. Currently, Loop Construction is a Cakewalk Clone of the ACID Pro Chopper. That would need to be thoroughly revamped to become a Sample Editor. They'd probably opt to just create a different editor altogether. I don't like the workflow with External Editors. They can make improvements to that which could make it good enough that it is palatable in lieu of a full in-built sample editor. That is probably easier. As long as I don't have to manually bounce 30 clips to avoid the DAW sending the entire file (instead of the part in the clip) to the audio editor, we can add registered "WaveEditor" applicaitons to the clip context menu, that would be good enough to start (for me, at least). On Sitala... Sitala is a very mediocre drum sample player. It is not a Sampler. It isn't even close to a sampler. Lots of producers lay their drum samples out on in the arranger as clips, so that is not really fixing some "deficiency" in Cakewalk by BandLab. To most, this is probably a complete non-factor - lots go straight to Battery or some other plugin over even very decent stock offerings. However, there are very few great third party "Samplers" on the market. This does get me thinking, though... What do people consider a "Sampler," because maybe what I think people are referring to is not what they're actually talking about... ??? This is the type of Sampler that Electronic/Hip-Hop Producers would be looking for: I am not even sure how Sitala factors into that discussion. Sitala is basically a Free Alternative to the likes of Groove Agent [SE], Drum Rack, Kong, Impact XT, etc. Except with practically none of the sound design capabilities for the samples you load onto the pads. Threads are asking for a sampler, yet talking about some really super basic drum plugin that is more work than it is worth using - over just laying the samples down in some audio tracks in the arranger. So, they'd have to develop a sampler, and then donate the code to the Sitala Devs to they can add the synth capabilities to Sitala to make it... usable. Otherwise, you're better off just using a multi-timbral sampler like Structure (probably have Strike 2 if you have this) , Kontakt, HALion, etc. to develop make your drum kits as Patches and Multis . They have better capabilities for this stuff than Sitala. Also, a Sampler isn't exactly a trivial thing to develop. That's why SONAR sat on DropZone for so long... It's basically like developing a Synth.

Samplitude Pro X Suite is probably 95-100% Equivalent to Steinberg WaveLab Pro 10 for Mastering and Audio Editing/Restoration. It's worth keeping around just for that, if you got it on super sale. For that, you won't run into the UI performance issues. Just install it without the add-ons (VITA Solo Instruments, Independence Pro, Object Synthesizers, etc.). The Base Product + maybe the impulse responses are good enough. Doesn't need to be used for Music Production, and you don't need to upgrade it ?

No. People who resort to personal attacks and then, instead of disicussing a topic, start posting massive meme videos in an attempt to strawman are trolling. Trolling is being awful and then coming back over and over with more awfulness just to argue in a thread. That is what you are doing. Try to avoid it. In the interim, I've just put you on block so that I am not dragged down to that level. This is not about anyone disagreeing with me. I am often contrarian on this forum, purposely and for the sake of inciting more rigorous discussion. What I don't do is resort to abusive tactics to antagonize those I disagree with. That is what you did, and I felt the need to call it out.

I am pretty sure that you don't have any idea why I said what I'm talking about. Lots of music is orchestrated in DAWs and then the score is tidied up and given to an orchestra for live playing. The sammple libraries film composers use are, largely, for sketching. They use the best to get as close to a real orchestra as possible, but the end product will be a recording of a live orchestra playing the music. The Score view can expose trivial things that are problematic for actual instrument players. For example, double stops that are impossible to play on a violin, or notes that are out of range of the instrument - but that a sampler may use pitch shifting to "make happen." These things are easy to spot simply by looking at a score/staff view. The Score View will also clearly indicate the key signature, which can help spot other issues in the score. The PRV can be used for this, but it's way faster to do this by looking at a score view. I didn't say to use the score view to write all of your music. Even using notation software, composers often play in the notes and then edit them later (articulations, techniques, etc.). If you're doing electronic music, or whatever then a score view is completely non-factor. That music is not expected to obey the rules of human or instrument capabilities.

Don't troll. It's unbecoming.

And many led themselves right over to other DAWs, dropping Samplitude to the point of needing "perpetual promotions" just to sell licenses. When I put an 8C/16T CPU and a $450 GPU in my machine, constant 15-30FPS scrolling/panning is unacceptable - especially when it's accompanied by audio issues. These issues have existed for about a decade, and have been confirmed by MAGIX. They still haven't been fixed. I'd rather be a follower than a sucker.

When you're composing music that you expect to be playable by human beings, the flexibility afforded by the PRV is compeltely ignorable.

Almost no one else would go that route based on looks alone. Samplitude does look like @$$, and the GUI bogs down heavily when you ahve decent track and object counts - which can also cause audio issues whenever you try to do anything like scroll or pan in the application during playback. I gave that software 100 chances. It's just not well-developed.

I know this. I made the assumption that you probably weren't referring to drum kits in my response. Use Komplete Kontrol if you want to edit and play chromatically ? Not quite. Sequencers and pattern editors in software like Logic Pro X, Studio One, and others have gotten huge upgrades in recent times. Ableton's is better. FL was built for this stuff. Cakewalk is not the worst. Pro Tools, Samplitude, and a few other DAWs are pretty terrible for this kind of stuff. However, several other DAWs have improved immensely in this area, because they are moving in that direction to gain more users. The Drum Editor can also use some improvements, as well. I can do things in the Cubase Drum Editor that are impossible in either the Cakewalk Drum Editor (Piano Roll with a Drum Map Applied) or its Step Sequencer.

Correct, but some software stitll doesn't work optimally without ASIO and if you have to round trip or use them while using Cakewalk you are better off just using a Generic Driver instead of WASAPI. Otherwise, you run into device ownership issues when switching applications - when using Generic ASIO drivers that lock the audio device. If you do everything within Cakewalk, then that is not an issue.

Aforementioned, my participation in this thread is only to discuss further and get people to dive deep into the why's of the feature request, as this is useful to the developers when they choose what features to implement - and why. Not to give the impression that I don't think it should be added. Discussion is fun ? I don't think the people who develop Cakewalk are concerned about Market Share, personally. The conversation only veered in that direction because a few people had made statements to that effect, and I though it was worth addressing due to how weak of a basis it is for developing a feature. Logically, the CbB developers should prioritize features of their current user base, not fictional converts. The users that are here are the only users guaranteed to use the feature. We cannot guarantee that people will leave other DAWs for this one feature, especially when some of us do produce this music and have a much more (for lack of a better word) educated view on the disparities that cause people to go to those other DAWs over Cakewalk ? Also, DAW choice has become like politics, these days. Converting people is not as easy as one thinks, and people often get very defensive when you challenge (or question) their choice of production software. EDIT: Clarity.

That is the content installer for applications like Samplitude, ACID Pro, Music Maker, etc. It has nothing to do with the ASIO Driver. The ASIO Driver is installed with MAGIX Audio Applicaitons, and it is removed when you uninstall them. They do not give a separate uninstaller for their Generic Audio Driver, like Steinberg does. If anyone needs a Generic Audio Driver, I recommend Steinberg's. That one allows you to share the audio device with other Applications, at the expense of a bit more latency. MAGIX uses ASIO4ALL, which locks your audio driver. I don't like it because when I'm on the go and using a Laptop, sometimes I get Skype calls and I don't want to have no Audio in Skype simply because I have/had a DAW running when it came in.

I've had CCLeaner delete file associations, etc. for installed applications, etc. Use with Caution.

Major Notices: Added support for decoding of HEVC/H.265 video files in the software, and on hardware for systems with supported GPUs The editor sequence can now be shared with Adobe Premiere Pro, by exporting to the AAF format. AAF Import allows you to open timelines created in Premiere Pro, DaVinci Resolve, EDIUS, and Avid Media Composer I cannot find the option to Import AAF. Voiceover audio can now be recorded directly in HitFilm, through the Media panel or the File menu A good update, but it still feels a bit like a budget After Effects (though that is probably a better way to market it, IMHO).

Correct, if you are decent at sound design. Otherwise, getting them in Expansions is useful. It's why Omnisphere is so popular ?