Keni

Thanks for confirming my suspicion... I was fortunate that being recently burned, I was not ready to chance something working fine for potential problems and avoided the update. Happily still working but for how long until they stop paying the license fee for the iLok version???

Yes... I’ve been experiencing sluggish response often as well. Haven’t figured out why as this didn’t happen before. Almost like the intermittency of Internet action responses. Like what’s going on starting the program (empty). It used to take near 7 seconds regularly. Now it's more like 15, somerimes 30 and even ~54 seconds before the Sonar splash disappears and the program active.

Interesting observation, but often for me I don't know if I'm going to need automation until long after adding the effect

Big ouch! Luckily not necessary. Though it was painful while I was working, I didn't report this until after I'm essentially finished with my MIDI work on this song other than any necessary tweaks at final mix. So I really don't "need" to solve this to work, only to understand why it's happenning and how I might avoid it happening again... So I may do a quickie version of this idea starting a new project (empty) importing all tracks as frozen audio except loading a new instance of the VSampler I've been using for the testing and then copy the MIDI track for that one (after removing all the meter change info)

Thanks for the confirmation David. Exactly my thinking. I took it all the way down to only the single plugin in a quick test and it is still problematic. Next going to remove all meter changes, save, reopen then remove all other tracks as well. Repeat close open I'll report asap

Just tried a quick test deleting the meter changes without saving etc. No diff there but I'll do a full test in a while when I'm not multi-tasking others' problems simultaneously...

We will see some time today. Thanks for the pointer. I'm surprised I didn'[t think to look there but that's exactly what I was looking for. I remember it but couldn't remember where! I'll review it as well as test removing all the meter changes and report back...

will try asap... something came up requiring my attention

Thanks David... I don't think so either. Especially seeing that so far it's impossible to find the pause key on my system due to mac/pc differences as well as keyboard brand unusualness.. I'm more convinced than ever that it's related to the meter changes as I can see how the PRV would need to interpret such. I removed all tracks except for the vsampler midi/audio tracks and bypassed all remaining fx.... The problem still persists. In none of my other project using this VSampler plugin with the same bass loaded including projects with nearly identical instrumentation brands/models If this is the case I can easily live with it for now as I've already weathered the tedious editing for this song and all that remains are vocals with a guitar solo.... No more midi work planned and I rarely do such meter mapping... ?

Thanks, but no. That's the tempo track and displays tempo changes. These are not tempo changes. The tempo remains the same but the song changes from 3/4 to 4/4 and even to 1/4 3 times! ? It's the number of beats in a measure...

Thanks Jonesey... I'll try that in a little while. Just finished breakfast. i did try removing all tracks except the superior drummer and the vsampler used in all this. Problem still the same after save/close/reopen... A thought just came to me though. One possibly very significant item. This song has a number of meter changes! Maybe that or the crazy editing I did to figure out and map thr meter changes as the song evolved. Good possibility that either having such a map, or the sloppy way it was implemented? That’s really sounding plausible now? Maybe I’m not remembering, but is there any place to see an overview of the meter changes?

I getcha. I’m not a mac fan either though as a computer tech I’ve done support/repairs/installs fir a few companies including supporting pg&e and pac bell. So I had to be fluent in each. But I was gifted these powerhouse (each of them cost my friend over $10k new) it was impossible to refuse. I have become far below poverty level (government assessment) these days. Made it a really easy decision. I couldn’t come close to this power myself. Only downside on the trashcan is the lack of multi-drive internal setup, so I do occasionally feel the drag running anything from the USB3 external. The thunderbolt 2 drives are a smidgen better, hut nothing to write home about. Trashcan... very appropriate for more than it’s appearance as they created a dead end flagship in this machine. I love the prior dual xeon 6 core processors @3.06 in a normal mac pro tower with 4 internal ssd's... A screamer but had me trapoed at win8.1 which I didn’t mind until I couldn’t get new software running that required win10. Now I’m trapped at win10! ?

Thanks for trying... I've been doing this for a couple of machines dating back to the Sonar days and though everyone always is shy thinking it has issues due to this, I haven't discovered any one difference. Bootcamp supplies the DOS boot table and it's running on intel... When it's open as windows (the only way I use it) it is a windows machine... Period... Now the keyboard? That's always been a bit of a pain...

Thanks... I just tried this and again, no change.... The PRV has a couple of seconds delay to any action I do and is "jumpy"

Just tried it... No change Nope function keys F13/14/15 do nothing...

Thanks... No, this is a 2013 Mac Pro "Trashcan" but the keyboard is a macally, not an official apple... I'm gonna try the function keys in a moment... Nope function keys F13/14/15 do nothing...

No. I did not. That's more than I was prepared to do. I will have to duplicate the project then experiment on the copy so as not to lose my work while testing.... Maybe tomorrow? Thanks for the thought. I didn't think of this. I'll try the function keys you mention...

Thanks John. i removed Labs from the project. Made no difference. If the synths are frozen, they should jot be adding resource demands anymore. I’m hoping Jonesy sees which key on my keyboard translates to "pause" as it’s a strong suspect.

sure...

Now why would anyone want to make the PRV response delayed and stuttering? I thought maybe pause scrolling or some such? Are you sure that's what it's supposed to do? Please help me by telling me which key is the pause key. I use a very unusual system and my keyboard does not have that old familiar label (This is a Mac Pro which I run only Windows 10 on as my DAW with Xeon 12 core with multithreading at 3.06 and 128 GB RAM) I remember that it's one of the home/end keys section, yes? Once I know, I will unfreeze the track and see if that key changes anything related to this.... Thanks... A good lead to pursue! I just opened a similar project with Same Superior Drummer 3 (unforzen!) Same VSampler Unforaen) Same B-3x (frozen UA Moog (Frozen Cherry CA2600 (forzen) and one frozen guitar track using Amplitube 4 In this project, even with two synths unfrozen, my PRV is behaving normally to edit either/both. Same latency setting etc. Yes, it's slighly less loaded (no Labs and only 1 guitar track) But it's again mostly frozen... What is the problem in the other project? Could it be LABS (frozen involvement? That's the only very new (first use) device in my project.... Hmmm... I will remove the Labs synth and see what follows. Frozen, it shouldn't be such an issue, should it? Nope... Even with the Labs synth removed from the project with it's tracks, PRV is still making dream of the fab handling of a Mac truck!

Thanks David, but that's not the problem here. I've been using this plugin since it was first given bundled with Sonar many decades ago! ? It has continually worked fine and I do use it on almost every song I work on. This current situation has only been within this last week... With same plugin. If I open an empty project and insert the synth with all my typical plugins and a 4 minute bass track (MIDI) PRV is working fine. At 128 buffer all is normal. On this project I'm working... There are many very resource hungry plugins in the project. Including Superior Drummer 3 VSampler IK's Hammond B-3x UA Moog Labs Cherry's CA2600 ...and three guitar tracks using amongst other fx, virtual amps (Amplitube 4) But all tracks are frozen except the VSampler track. As mentioned earlier, very few plugins running in busses. Yet my PRV is behaving as if I was trying to run all those synths unfrozen simultaneously??? I don't get it. What's weighing the system down with so much frozen? Why is PRV behaing as if there's more load than there is?

Not that I'm aware of. Remind me please... What does the pause key do?

This has been going on only the last few days so I must have accidentally changed something? In a somewhat large project (for me Probably over 20 tracks) with all tracks frozen but one. An old 32bit plugin I use in near every project (VSampler being the only one I can affor that will play my giga bass library). Normally it's as lightweight as can be, but right now opening the PRV takes many seconds of the screen slowly flashing and re-adjusting itself trying to get to it's goal. It does this with every screen movement and edit. With all tracks but this frozen, there is only the waves Abbey Road Studio 3 plugin I use for my monitoring all projects, Soundtoys Little Plate VST2, Sonitus Modulator and Sonitus Delay. Nothing that should be causing this kind of response... I would appreciate any thought any of you have about this. It's suddenly like this. Never before with such light load Thanks...

Sadly, though I love the products and respect the people, they were not able to do that in my situation. They only recommended that I buy the new/current release. ...but they were quick to reply and polite through and through...

Here’s hoping. I’m not doing the update. Plugin works fine as is!