PavlovsCat

Well, it is possible to disagree with someone without being disparaging. You know, that whole civility thing people once believed in. I'm still a fan of civility. Larry and some others here have been absolutely savage on 8Dio/SoundPaint for their large file sizes and for some reason I'm the only person you went after. On the topic of being a futurist and a dreamer, I am definitely in that category too. I spent years working professionally as a musician, am a writer who's had a major book deal, I've started multiple publications. founded multiple businesses. All of it is rooted in creating things that weren't there before. And I appreciate that part of Troels. He's a very talented composer and I'm a long time 8Dio customer and that includes SoundPaint too. However, it is possible to appreciate that and also to not suspend one's critical thinking skills. Troels habit of exaggerating and overhyping his products -- and in this case, creating a strawman containing a false representation of KONTAKT's scripting capabilities -- being less than truthful is not part of his being a futurist and dreamer. it is part of his being an overhyping promoter of his products. Now it's not uncommon for entrepreneurs to overhype their offerings, but I think it warrants being called out. Having spent a career, including working with scientists, engineers, inventors and designers -- including for a company that has held more tech patents than most other companies -- there's another giveaway to the overhype of breakthrough technology -- and anyone experienced working with innovators recognizes it. If an entrepreneur is truly responsible for creating a tech innovation, patents would absolutely be filed. That is a fact. Anyhow, I'm calling BS on your calling BS.

I now understand why you made an attack on me after I made a post and called what I wrote BS. Because you believed everything Troels' said in his video as gospel and for some reason you bring a level of emotionality and anger into your opinions with those who don't agree with you, which is very different from my style. For me, this is pretty unemotional territory, so I'm purely analytical. While KONTAKT is the sampler I use most often (I probably don't have a project I've done without it), I don't own NI stock and if someone comes along with a truly superior sampler, I'm on board -- unquestionably. And I also use SoundPaint, SampleTank UVI, Noiz, sfzorando, and others, If Troels can create a truly superior sampler to KONTAKT, I'm on board. If he pushes the envelope --- I think that's great news even for those who never use SoundPaint. And, as I've shared, I own several SoundPaint libraries and I LOVE SoundPaint for creating custom programs and patches. It excels at that, IMO. But SoundPaint, in my experience and from the insights I've gleaned from expert developers who, in my experience, have better coded libraries than anything I own from 8Dio, including SoundPaint, have told me that SoundPaint, even with the new HAL version, is not a giant leap from KONTAKT and that Troels' made some inaccurate and misleading statements regarding KONTAKT and as I shared earlier (developers are well aware) in his video in constructing a strawman intended to position SoundPaint as the innovative successor to KONTAKT, which he presented as an inferior and outdated sampler. It is possible to "give them a chance" while not abandoning critical thinking skills. I'm, no doubt, still going to buy more 8Dio and SoundPaint libraries when they interest me -- and I hope that they end up fulfilling the promises that Troels makes. But to date, that simply isn't the case. My current experience with SoundPaint is that it's fun to use but it's not in the same league as KONTAKT (but that could be completely due to the current libraries not having great, intuitive scripting and sounding as good as some of the best KONTAKT library equivalents). But I would welcome if that changes. Having spent a career working with engineers, including software engineers, product designers who've received an a good deal of patents, you should ask yourself, if Troels' has indeed made groundbreaking innovations as he asserts, surely he just filed some patents, right? Critical thinking skills result in asking those kinds of questions.

@Simeon Amburgey I just sense that after you do a video of Contemporary Cello I'm going to find that I still can't choose, that I'll love both libraries too much and end up buying both. BTW, I really like how the developer behind Sonixenima interacts with sample users over at VI Control, he seems genuinely kind and I have all of his freebies, and I think one paid library. Like always, I'll watch a video of you playing it, then I'll buy it and I'll be like -- "Hey, this doesn't sound as good as that library Simeon played. And I know the reason. Simeon's a really good keyboardist and thr guy who's playing it now is terrible!" Hahaha. Seriously though, thanks for doing this. You know I enjoy your videos -- especially when you get carried away and before you know it you're playing Stevie Wonder and old classics. It's your love of music -- and good playing -- that makes those moments so enjoyable.

I have been waiting for a Black Friday sale to pick up their other Solo Cello library -- which has legato plus additional articulations -- and then they released this, which I think sounds gorgeous. I love the tone. The downside is that it's only a solo legato articulation. @Simeon Amburgeydid a video for the Intimate Legato Cello (see below) and I asked him about doing one of the other cello library, I think it's called Contemporary Soloist Cello. I'd love it if he compared the two, because they both sound great. Although Intimate Cello seems to have superior/ smoother legato patches.

Great post. On the organizational side, having had many years as a director and having led PR and marketing at companies and even been part of drafting HR social media policy that covered situations like this, when an employee -- and especially, an executive -- takes a public stand stigmatizing/ discriminating against a certain group, your organization is forced to take a stand and make clear that it doesn't support bigotry because that impacts the company's reputation, the perception of its fairness in hiring practices and how it treats employees, how it selects and treats vendors/partners and the company's relationship with customers. Any high profile company would either terminate the executive or put them on leave temporarily. As Christian, I believe, owns probably half of Spitfire, he probably decided to temporarily take a break on his own in order to minimize the harm to the company he co founded. I would expect that most crisis management consultants would likely advise he separate from the company. That said, to the person's earlier posts of people who sides with Christian's expressed anti-trans views, while I oppose all forms of bigotry, I support the concept of voting with your dollars. So if you oppose the values of a company, I think you should spend accordingly. But it should be noted -- because there's been a lot of incorrect assumptions and speculation that this was about Christian being "cancelled" due to holding conservative views, when, in fact. Christian is actually a liberal that has strongly opposed the past US' president. Consequently, this whole matter is exclusively over Christian holding some very strong prejudices against trans people and not attributable to Christian's political views.

Of course, you can give him a chance. I'm a customer with probably a couple of dozen 8Dio and SoundPaint libraries. I'm obviously giving him/them a chance. I'm not sure why you feel the need to resort to calling someone else's perspective BS. You can have a different perspective without making an attack on thiose that you disagree with. As I wrote, I've talked to Troels, he's called on me for advice years ago. I like him and I'm an 8Dio/SoundPaint customer. You're incorrect in casting me as I'm anti- SoundPaint because I'm not a non-critical fanboy. I'm just making some very basic observations about what Troels said/did in the video and about SoundPaint's and 8Dio's products from my experience as a customer/user. Earlier today, when I first saw the video, I shot the link over to a few sample developer friends to get their thoughts. They agreed that Troels going on for several minutes claiming KONTAKT is outdated with what he refers to as "20 year old scripting technology" was simply untrue (one dev guessed that because Troels' doesn't code, he probably doesn't even know about the advancements in KONTAKT, and specifically, the advances in the current version of KONTAKT, as Troels incorrectly states that the changes in KONTAKT 7 are primarily GUI-focused; according to the responses I received, that's simply untrue) and they also saw the video as clearly a competitor attack on KONTAKT. Troels' set up a strawman argument that KONTAKT is an outdated sampler using 20 yr old technology (that statement is false) and SoundPaint was just built from the groundup taking into consideration modern advances in sampling, that it's a giant leap forward from KONTAKT. In a nutshell, taking in what I've learned, SoundPaint has some very good ideas but is not the incredible breakthrough Troels hypes it up to be and -- this is according to the developers, not something I personally know to be the case, KONTAKT can do most of the things the new version of SoundPaint does. I don't remember the exact comparison, so I may be screwing this up, but one developer referenced the way SoundPaint does velocity layers as being very similar to the way either Yamaha or Roland does it (I can't recall which, maybe a sample developer reading this can chime in). I was told that you can do most of what SoundPaint does with KONTAKT. Now, I'm not a sample developer and I don't code (long ago I did), but it's rather clear that Troels wants this sampler to compete with KONTAKT and he's gotten some developers to release libraries in the SoundPaint format. So he obviously has competitive aspirations, which is great. Competition is great for advancing technology and making things more affordable for users. I've already invested in the SoundPaint ecosystem (the sampler is free, but, IMO, the best thing about SoundPaint is the ease of making your own programs and making patches layering different SP libraries). But here's what I find is the bottom line: As a user, does SoundPaint deliver on Troels' promises? Does it sound better than KONTAKT? Are the libraries better scripted and more intuitive to play than a top notch KONTAKT library? In each case, the answer is a resounding no. At this point, IMO, SoundPaint falls far short of KONTAKT. The SoundPaint libraries I own -- pianos, string, electric piano, electric pianos, guitar (it was so poor compared to my KONTAKT libraries that it's the first sample library I've ever returned), sound design and percussion libraries are inferior to my favorite KONTAKT libraries sonically, dynamically and in terms of scripting. It's not even close. But that might be because the SoundPaint folks (okay, it's technically 8Dio, but for the purposes of this post, I'm going to separate the two as if they're two companies) are using legacy KONTAKT libraries and I'm not saying that their libraries are better scripted in the KONTAKT version. as I have found 8Dio KONTAKT libraries to not have really great, intuitive KONTAKT scripts. Consequently, if the SoundPaint sampler is indeed technologically superior to KONTAKT, it's not apparent from the end results. And I'm not even addressing the huge file size that most people bring up when someone mentions 8Dio or SoundPaint. For me, the greatest thing about SoundPaint's sampler is how easy and fun it is to create your own programs. I would love it if the libraries improve from where they are today, because I think SoundPaint wins for me over KONTAKT on usability when creating your own programs. Now all of that doesn't mean that SoundPaint isn't capable of becoming an incredible sampler. But to date, with the SoundPaint libraries I own, it absolutely isn't there yet.

You and Larry are cracking me up. Savage! Data centre, that's pretty funny and not too far from reality. I just wish 8Dio invested in decent KONTAKT scripting. I think Troels is being very inaccurate in his characterization of KONTAKT (that's the diplomatic version). That's possibly out of ignorance-- that he doesn't actually code himself-- and possibly out of a propensity to engage in ultra deep hype and exaggeration. I'm just sayin'...

Give it a watch and I think you'll see. There's no question about his attack on KONTAKT and if you were NI's CMO, you would absolutely see this as an attack from a competitor. Troel's is saying that KONTAKT is outdated and inferior to the superior, amazing, incredible, fantastic, ultra-deep sampler that his company has created and called, interestingly, part of the same name as one of its competitors (HAL). Troel mentions KONTAKT being outdated and the impetus for his developing a new and far superior sampler. You can also call it a sales tactic -- it's really a different name for a promotional tactic -- that we in the marketing and advertising world call "getting in the mud." Which means doing a direct comparison with your competitor, that is, of course, unfavorable to your competitor. So yes, as always, Troels' is hyping/over-hyping his products, but in this case, he's directly disparaging a competitor that he has had a long relationship and that's not a good way to maintain a good relationship and I'm sure he realizes that. Now here's the leap that seems like a rather obvious leap. Troels has, no doubt, launched SoundPaint hoping that it's sales will overtake that of 8Dio and he will likely stop producing new libraries for 8Dio if SoundPaint sales are significantly superior. That's speculation, but it's also no-brainer speculation.

Larry unfiltered! Hahahaha! That's brutal, but you've made some excellent points. I did pick up several SoundPaint libraries, and while I've had a lot of fun programming patches, the samples themselves -- with the exception of Bazantar, which I love and was only $20 USD -- are really bland and, as you've pointed out, disk hogs, like every other 8Dio library. I initially enjoyed the Wurli for $20USD, largely due to one super distorted patch. But there's no life, no dynamics to the sample library. In the end, it's lifeless and only made interesting when you throw tons of effects on it. What's also interesting is that Troels -- who I had a call with years ago and I do really like -- rips on KONTAKT's scripting, but my 8Dio libraries are dumps of articulations without smart, intuitive scripting, so it's ironic that the KONTAKT developer with some of the most disappointing scripting is now ripping on KONTAKT for their scripting capabilities. This is just what the pros in advertising call "mud slinging." He's disparaging a competitor to attempt to make his product look superior. It's not a path I would advise, but if you're going to go that route, you better have a clearly superior product and I have SoundPaint and there's no way it's superior to KONTAKT. Not even close. Also, on the product naming end of things, he's named the latest version of his sampler H.A.L. when one of the oldest sampler plugins still on the market is named HALion (a "Space Odyssey" reference). I'm really surprised he would do that from a branding perspective.

Boom. Shots fired! Troels throws some serious shade at NI/KONTAKT at 22 minutes and thereafter, referring to KONTAKT as a "twenty year old scripting system" and that SoundPaint's sampler "essentially uses brand new code bases and build it from the ground up twenty years later." That doesn't sound like a developer who sees a future in developing sample libraries for NI. I didn't watch the whole video, but it seems rather obvious that Troels wants to bail on KONTAKT. It's no wonder why there are fire sale prices on 8Dio libraries.

Be careful, you don't want to end up getting trolled for the next year, get hate posts directed at you and then have bogus complaints made on every thread you create.

The download button/form had problems for me with Chrome and I used the contact us form, but tried the download button again and it worked. The developer soon got back to me and was super friendly. When I told him everything worked out and mentioned my browser, he responded that I should contact him if I have any questions about his plugin. He made a great first impression with me.

Thanks, Larry!

If you've ever bought any libraries from the developer in the past, send him a link and he'll offer you a discount on the bundles. I just did. He asks that you include your past order numbers and doing that, I realized I purchased the same library twice. D'oh!

@abacab Do you want it? You got it, now you know.* Please share your thoughts after you spend a little time with it! I probably won't even get around to installing a new hard drive until Christmastime. * I've always wanted to post lyrics from Abacab at you, but in the past, my better judgment won.

BTW, I should add that my current situation -- which I know many of my fellow forum members often find themselves in -- further leads me to doubling down on the theory that Larry is secretly the VP of Sales for Western Digital, Seagate or another hard drive maker. I can't even count how many of the sample libraries I own are the result of Larry sharing some killer deal -- all I can say is that they're enough to fill up a lot of hard drives -- A LOT. All because I got lost somewhere in "Electric Larryland.* * * Don't blame me for that name, @cclarry. Okay, I'll take 50 percent of the blame. Fleer came up with the Larryland when you were on your trip. I just made it ever so slightly worse by adding the "Electric" part -- only because I'm a huge Hendrix fan (as any rock musician should rightfully be, and as I assume you are).

@cclarry Do you own any of Audio Modeling's plugins ? I know that in the past, when I did a thread on what people have on their Black Friday list for sample libraries and plugins, I shared that I am still looking for a well scripting, realistic and beautiful sounding solo cello library recorded dry for use in rock and folk rock productions and someone recommended Audio Modelling, which I have considered in the past, but I suppose because I have had great results using sample libraries in the past and I find modeled instruments fall a bit short of the same realism, I admit that I have hesitated to purchase Audio Modelling's solo cello. Anyhow, I'd love to get your thoughts if you own it or anyone else's thoughts who owns it and can compare it with an excellent solo string library for KONTAKT with intuitive scripting.

People would love that brand!

I bought it and picked up the MReverb for free that a number of folks here recommended (I'm really looking forward to trying that out). But I don't even have enough hard drive space to install anything. I need Larry to post another hard drive deal!!!

IAMLAMPREY 70% OFF Everything Storewide. IAMLAMPREY is a small developer out of Australia that, IMO, makes some pretty cool and unusual KONTAKT libraries and sells them very inexpensively at regular price, so with this sale, his libraries are very inexpensive. This is an overview of IAMLAMPREY libraries from my favorite YouTube influencer covering sample libraries and VSTs, Corey Pellazari (seriously, Corey is the only influencer in this space I've ever heard tell people NOT to buy one of the libraries he was reviewing; I wish all influencers had his level of integrity). https://www.iamlamprey.com/

Because this thread is completely off topic and that's totally cool by me, I wanted to share something. A fellow forum member PMed me to ask me why another of my threads was deleted today and this isn't the first time a thread of mine that isn't violating a policy or controversial, received a complaint. It's incredibly clear that someone is targeting my threads, complaining about them to the mods and it seems obvious who it is, the same person who claimed that I was responsible for Larry leaving the forum for a short time (and disparaging the entire community with his post, saying that he doesn't like what's happened to the community lately -- whatever that meant). The person (falsely) reported that an 8Dio sale I posted contained an affiliate marketing link and the thread was deleted -- although I told the mod it was no big deal, but I didn't violate policy, there was no affiliate link. Yesterday's deleted thread was a poll asking if inflation would impact your plugin and sample library purchases; it wasn't political. I created the poll because I was curious how everyone is doing. I honestly was curious and I also did it to try to promote more compassion and empathy towards one another -- because global inflation is impacting people, especially on the lower income side. And, of course, it impacts our disposable incomes. So, the person who has had some PMs with me in the past, all started when I commented on a political post that the forum is best without politics. When he PMed me, I was friendly, and he seemed friendly, until I divulged my political leanings. I thought he would remain friendly. He didn't. He got ugly. When he made his post saying how bad this forum had become and he doesn't like it here anymore and blamed a particular person for Larry leaving, I PMed him to ask if the person he was blaming was me, and he confirmed it was. I think it's ridiculous for someone to carry around that venom. But to serially focus on my posts and threads is really out of hand. Honestly, he's doing a good job of ruining the joy I get from this place. At least a little.

Like you, I'm super glad Larry is back. But just think about how much more money we're going to be spending now. And my eldest has decided on a college major. He's going for a doctorate degree. Do you realize how many plugins and sample libraries I could have bought with that money???

Larry or anyone else here, do you know this developer and if so, what is your opinion of their compressor or other effects?

I realize that was written innocently, literally about a boomwhacker sample library, but it sounds soooo very inappropriate. ?

I have the original version of the Legacy Drums drum kit Waves Factory sold, which I bought back when Jesus had just launched the business, but I'm trying to limit the drum libraries I buy that don't work out of the box with Roland V-Drums. Still, Waves Factory VQ Drums library sounds so good, I'm very tempted to get it. This demo is a great version of Zeppelin's Moby Dick, both in terms of the sound of the library and the playing. https://www.wavesfactory.com/kontakt-libraries/vq-drums/