PavlovsCat

And the people pleaser that is me is thinking, crap, I hope Troels doesn't see this. Because we got along great in our only conversation many years ago. I don't want to ruin that memory, but I also enjoy discussing sample libraries honestly too.

But I'll say this plainly, the SoundPaint Wurli library is really poor. Except for one patch that's super heavily distorted, it's not like playing even a mediocre present day KONTAKT Wurli library. It's like playing a Soundfont library from the 90s. Playing it is more disappointing than listening to it in my shootout. That doesn't do justice to how disappointing the library is.

Wow. That didn't occur to me. I immediately guessed it was due to the problem I reported, but I think what you wrote makes even more sense.

Although, I only reported the problem. I didn't share my disappointment with them. Though I have posted about it in the past.

But I've spent hours playing each library and the differences are far more profound than my demonstration reveals. My poor playing and mixing skills keep me from doing a better job conveying these differences. And no doubt, I'm not skilled enough to do a great job at a shootout. But I was focused on dynamics and wanted to convey what I've found using each library and do it as fairly as I could. Interestingly, it was only after I recorded and mixed this and made the poll that I went to all the sites I bought from and discovered that, for some unknown reason, that I'm speculating is related to the problem I reported, SoundPaint pulled their Wurli library. I don't know why and if anyone knows the reason and SoundPaint has made a statement somewhere that I'm aware of. If any of that is the case, please share that information here.

I suppose what I'm not sharing that over the years, I have had a total of three developers who contacted me angry over my making posts critical of their libraries or praising a competitor's libraries. Two of those developers were developers I had given hours of free consulting and declined free libraries (NFR) in return and one actually had owed me several thousand dollars in consulting fees but refused to pay me because I had publicly praised one of his competitor's libraries as being innovative (Orange Tree Samples). So my opinions in this specific forum have actually cost me several thousand dollars. True story. So yeah, I am the most unsuccessful influencer of all time. That experience and not having as much free time caused me to stop consulting. But I was telling developers I gave free advice to provide NFRs to KVR members from third world nations that I got to know because they shared that buying a sample library would cost multiple pay checks., I found one of the developers I was giving free advice to was already doing that. He and I ended up becoming good friends, but I'm sure he doesn't want me to reveal his good deeds.

My Wurli budget is spent for 2022. I do think that, based on demos, AcousticSamples Wurli is the best sounding Wurli I've yet to hear and the second best would Skybox Audio's 200A that's included with another library, which I think was selling for more than $100USD last time I checked. I didn't buy AcousticSamples Wurli because it was a lot more expensive than e-instruments' Wurli. The same goes for SonicCoture's Broken Wurli, it also sounds like a winner. At this point, past my budget, if any developers of Wurli libraries want me to compare their libraries, I would accept an NFR to do so. However, on the conditions that there are no conditions on my review, that I can be as savage as I feel is appropriate. I actually know and like Troels. He called me several years ago for marketing and branding advice and I loved our conversation. He's a super talented composer and a very interesting person. Absolutely delightful to talk to. But I'm not going to put myself in a position to where I have to censor myself. I actually declined NFRs back then, because I wanted to be able to not have him feel I was beholden to him in case I posted anything critical of his libraries. I've led digital marketing and advised on marketing at global brands everyone here knows -- including affiliate marketing and advising on influencer marketing/relations. Developers aren't appreciative of hyper critical reviews and once you do one, they will not provide you with more free products, sponsor you (AKA, pay you for promoting their products, which influencers refer to as reviews). When I had a publication on marketing strategy, I used to do book reviews. Over a decade I did a total of maybe 12 reviews. I was easily sent more than 100 books. Most were not worth reading. I would get publicists upset. I had a policy of only publishing reviews of books I could recommend, which ended up being maybe 12 out of more than 100. I told book publicists that they should be grateful I didn't review the books they sent because I would be advising people not to buy them. That's how I used to operate. But part of me would have found real value in giving both good and bad book reviews because honest, journalistically valid reviews are helpful to people. I seek them. Anyhow, that is what I did here. Obviously, I'm not a talented musician anymore I'm a guy who used to play a long time ago that had an injury that ensures I'll never be even worthy of the title musician again. But I thought I could at least pull off a demonstration. and share my insights and maybe do a little to make up for my recommending SoundPaint's disappointing library due to my initial enthusiasm from one patch, when I should have taken the time to really pay attention to the library. In fact, it was only after I recorded something with it -- long after I recommended it here -- that I discovered the weird pops/volume spikes that occur when it plays back MIDI. I have no idea what's going on, but that makes an already disappointing library unusable. My hope is that they'll not only fix that problem but there's some way they could make their library more dynamic.

Well, we're enough posts down where people won't see this right away and my hope was that they'd judge for themselves and see my point. But I do realize that my playing is so poor that it doesn't illustrate my point as well as if I was a better player. I mainly just tried to play softly at the beginning and loudly a little later so that people could hear how each library reacts in terms of dynamics, because having grown up having a Wurli in our home, the dynamics of a Wurli are a HUGE part of what makes it great -- that it doesn't illustrate my intended point as well as just jamming on it would. Also, I paid for every library played and didn't approach any developers asking for freebies. I don't have any affiliate marketing relationships with any sample or plugin developers or any other financial relationships. These are my unfiltered, honest opinions. I rounded the stars up or down to what I felt most acccuarelty reflected my opinion of each library. THE FIRST LIBRARY / UNO: e-instruments Session Keys Electric W MY RATING: 3.5 - 4 / 5 ⭐⭐⭐⭐ MY TAKE: This is a very good quality Wurli library that responds well dynamically. Also, this library a lot of controls that let you apply various effects and modify the sound of the included samples in useful and interesting ways. e-instruments put together a very good Wurli library and I've come to respect and trust the brand. Kudos to a quality sample developer. CURRENTLY ON SALE FOR $33.43 (the price I bought for the other day, thanks to @cclarry) https://www.bestservice.com/session_keys_electric_w.html THE SECOND LIBRARY / DOS: SoundPaint Wurli MY RATING: 1 / 5 / ⭐ MY TAKE: This is a very disappointing library that I initially enjoyed due to one heavily distorted patch (named aggressive something or another), but after my enthusiasm wore of for that and I paid attention to the quality of the samples, I realized that it's a pretty poor library that sounds as if it came out 20 years ago. Despite all of the hype about SoundPaint's 127 velocity layers, this sounds like one velocity layer. A giant part of the Wurli is that when you play it softly it has this tone I consider magically, almost like celeste. And when you slam the keys, it has bite to it. It's alive, like an acoustic piano. SoundPaint's library sounds like it's one velocity layer that was recorded with a player playing neither soft or loud, but somewhere in between, and when you play soft, it's just a lower volume of that recording and when you play loud, it's just a louder volume of that (and yes, I'm the son and brother of classically trained pianists/organists who took years of piano and organ lessons and can explain that using more technical language and lovely Italian words, but I opt for the simple jargon-free language that everyone can understand whether they formally studied music or are self taught). To put it in the purest, most direct language, I find SoundPaint's Wurli a total disappointment. It's only value for me is creating programs with other SoundPaint libraries I've bought. Doing this comparison and considering my several other SoundPaint libraries all being disappointing with only one exception -- the Bazantar -- I love that library, I am going to hit pause on buying anymore SoundPaint libraries and I apologize for those who might have bought the library due to my posting about it immediately after I purchased it. I was excited by one patch and thought for $20 USD it was awesome. But now, with e-instruments on sale for around $13 USD more, I would never recommend this library to anyone and would even go as far as recommending AGAINST buying it. Again, if you bought this library because of my past post, I am sincerely apologize. I wrote that post sincerely and I really should have spent more time with the library. That is part of why I did this post. Candidly, I find that SoundPaint is ridiculously overhyped and this library, the Soul Guitar library are especially poor. They certainly are not up to the same standards as a high quality KONTAKT library, not even close. My SampleTank libraries are better than both (yes, SampleTank 4's Wurli is better than SoundPaint's Wurli, IMO. I can add that if anyone wants me to and update this later this week. REGULAR PRICE $20 USD. When I looked at SoundPaint's website just now, I found that they removed the Wurli from their site, That was a good choice. I had informed them of problems with the library. My guess is that others have complained and probably returned the library after noticing the same problems (you can hear the sound sometimes spike in the linked shootout I did. Hopefully they can improve on more than just the technical problems and make this into a better library. As it stands, it's like using a Soundfont library. Add in the problems with the sound randomly spiking and it makes the library unusable, IMO. https://soundpaint.com/collections/keyboard THE THIRD LIBRARY / TRES: Scarbee 200A MY RATING: 3/5 ⭐⭐⭐ MY TAKE: Scarbee makes good libraries. But this library is probably 15 years old by now and I'm sure that today they could make a far better library. But it's a good library. Not as good as e-instruments Electric W and it lacks all of the effects and sample modification options of e-instruments Sessions Keys Electric W. ON SALE FOR $34.50 USD. IF you don't own the full version of KONTAKT, this uses the FREE KONTAKT Player, so it might be a good choice for those that don't own KONTAKT. https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys/scarbee-a200/

I completely agree.

I used presets I liked that didn't have a great deal of distortion. Of course, they're not identical. But one not only has no difference besides volume when the dynamics change, it has these strange bursts of sound. I'm not going to lie, I kinda loathe one of these libraries. It's a huge disappointment and, ironically, it's overhyped for having a lot of velocity layers. Oops. I just realized, I wrote these are all KONTAKT libraries, they're not. I'll fix that. I did this stuff in between watching a football game! But my bottom line point was really about the dynamics.

I'd love to, but I'm on a tight budget and that's it for my Wurli spending for 2022. I'm not looking to be an influencer getting freebies. I prefer being able to be completely honest. My completely honest take is that one of these three libraries is greatly inferior to the other two. And I'll plainly state that the one that's inferior is SoundPaint's Wurli released this year. One of the other libraries is Scarbee's A200 originally released at least a decade ago and it blows away the SoundPaint Wurli, no contest. The best one, IMO, is the e-Instruments W. So those are the three I played, but I'm still not saying which is which. I'd like others to judge and then share the order I played each one.

I'm not sure of the value of nitpicking people's responses as you just did mine as you did to Larry on the day he took a break from the forum, but...He provided a specific example (i.e., "regarding some of Soniccouture's products, including the Broken Wurli. These are very old samples.") and that enabled me to provide a specific response with the included his example and a more general response with regard to older libraries that he didn't name.

THREE WURLI SHOOTOUT -- ALL LESS THAN $35 USD each Most people at the forum probably realize by now that I'm a bit obsessed with Wurlis (Wurlitzer electric pianos). I have a long history with them and I've collected A LOT of Wurli sample libraries and plugins over the years. But this year I set out to buy a better Wurli library. Unfortunately, I bought a library that I find poor and one that I find very good. I wanted to do a shootout with those two plus an old Wurli library I have that many of us have had for a long time. Right now, during Black Friday pre-sales, you can by any of these libraries for under $35 USD. So I threw this together very quickly. I did a first take on the Wurli, electric guitar, bass and drums and just cut and pasted those MIDI files for the other two Wurli libraries, so you're hearing the identical MIDI file played by each Wurli library. I'm going to share what each of them are and I'll link to the best sale prices on each, but first I'd like you to listen without prejudice of knowing what each library is named. I'm playing the riff from "Where It's At" -- live, sloppily and from memory (all libraries you hear were played live), so I may have gotten the riff wrong; I just played basic guitar and bass parts that kept the groove; they're not based on the original song. What I would like you to pay close attention to are the tone and the dynamics of the Wurli libraries. A real Wurli sounds gorgeous when you play softly and has a bite to it when you play loudly. I don't think any of these three libraries do a perfect job of capturing that. But I find one does a very poor job of capturing that. Of course, that's my opinion. I would like you to judge with your own ears. I played electric guitar, bass and drum libraries (from a MIDI controller) along with the Wurlis so that you could hear the Wurlis in a mix. After we go through all three Wurli libraries with other instruments in a mix, I then let you hear just the Wurlis alone. The guitar, bass and drum kit sample libraries used are: Orange Tree Samples Evolution Texas Twang, Orange Tree Samples Evolution Vintage Violin Bass and drums ezDrummer Big Rock Drums played in SD2 (bought from our own ccLarry). I'll tell everyone the libraries used after we get some voting and -- hopefully -- other posts in, because I would prefer that you judge with your ears rather than from developer's or libraries' names.

First, this subforum is tangent city. Don't worry about it! Anyone that would criticize you would be a massive hypocrite. Second, who "rejected" your music because of older sample libraries? I could understand if you were using Soundfont libraries that lacked layers, round robins and sophisticated scripting, but these SonicCouture libraries, even the oldest ones -- and I own several of their older libraries-- remain sophisticated, high quality libraries by today's standards. If you compare SonicCouture's Wurli library that was originally released in 2012 to SoundPaint's Wurli library released in 2022, you would find that SonicCouture's library is vastly superior in terms of sonic quality and dynamics. No comparison. If you compare some of SampleTekk's piano libraries, like Rain Piano, to other piano libraries released today, SampleTekk's libraries still sound high quality. Now, of course, computers are more powerful today than in 2012 and there is often -- but not always-- more sophisticated scripting and effects, but that doesn't mean a piano library released in 2022 sounds better than one released in 2012. There are too many factors for the year alone to be enough, so someone making that comment about a SonicCouture library like Broken Wurli is really odd to the point where my instincts are that they don't have any idea what they're talking about. I have numerous SampleTekk piano libraries created more than a decade ago that are superior quality to SoundPaint libraries released this year. No one listening to a song I made with SampleTekk's Rain Piano or Black Grand is going to discern when the library is made unless they own that library and know it so well they recognize it. But to listen to it and say that it's inferior to today's libraries? Unless it was an incredibly inferior library -- which is not the case with the SonicCouture Broken Wurli -- I would count that criticism as less than informed. I'd love to hear the song that was criticized.

That's very Larry-like of you.* *You should feel honored. It's the ultimate compliment anyone could get in the Deals forum.

Fleer, can you speak to my concerns about dynamics? Does the Wurli have sweetness when you play it gently and bite when you pound the keys like real Wurli? That's my concern with the small file size.

@Craig N I have been listening to the Purgatory Creek demos trying to decide. They definitely sound good, but considering how disappointing I find SoundPaint's Wurli due to the lack of good dynamics, I think velocity layers are ultra important. While I dig the vibe of the basic sound from the demos and our Fleer and others had good things to say about these libraries, I just wonder from the small file size if these libraries have the kind of detail to do the velocity layers that result in the kind of dynamics that are the hallmark of a real Wurli-- they're gentle when you're gentle and they're edgy when you're slamming the keys. Granted, SoundPaint's library is probably big and also lacks good dynamics, despite Troels promoting the heck of his samplers 127 velocity layers (e-Instruments us vastly superior) the lack of decent dynamics ruins his library, IMO, unless you drench it in distortion. But that's just my instincts on this library. I'd be grateful for your insights after you buy and checkout the Purgatory Creek libraries (particularly both of the Wurlitzer ones) .

And Kilohearts Update Plan (KUP) is the polar opposite of Waves Update Plan (WUP). And no, they don't actually call it KUP. But that's what it is. Here's their update plan in their words: "Lifetime Free Updates Once you buy a license for any Kilohearts plugins you will get all future updates for free. We won’t charge you a penny for new versions. And we will continue to improve all our software with new features and OS compatibility (yes, it’s all M1 Native already!), which means that investing in Kilohearts software is a very sensible move for the serious sound designer."

Man, there are so many sales going on for sample libraries of my beloved Wurli and I just bought the e-Instruments one and then spent time realizing that I like SonicCouture's Wurli even more, and then this library is dirt cheap.... It's a good time for Wurli fans. The biggest challenge is not buying all of these libraries.

For some reason I didn't really spend much time considering their Broken Wurli library when researching Wurli libraries, probably because of the name, I figured it wasn't a classic Wurli sound they were going after, but something really quirky. But it sounds fantastic and I'm now wondering if I should have bought it instead of e-Instruments Wurli, which is very good, but not as good as Broken Wurli and AcousticSamples Wurlie sounds. 50 bucks (USD), seems like a pretty good deal and everything I have from SonicCouture is superb. Definitely a top tier sample developer.

UPDATE: Downloaded and installed the Sake Bottle library and it sounds very nice. I especially like the first patch titled, "Bottle Sounds." It sounds very much like a pipe organ. It's a pure and sweet sound. The Light Switch library -- which is free with the code provided on the library's landing page -- is a neat little percussion library; where it really shines is when you play with the included effects. I don't know how often I'll use it, but I suspect I'll find a use for it. Once again, Edu's combination of creativity and strong sampling skills -- everything I have from him is pure quality -- are impressive and love seeing really imaginative artists like Edo succeed. FTR, I don't know Edu,. I've never spoke or PMed with him. I merely bought some of his libraries a few years ago, I think I found about his libraries from a VI Control thread and was -- and still am -- very impressed at how creative and talented he is at taking ordinary. everyday objects and transforming them into some really interesting and high quality libraries.

Edu is a really imaginative/creative developer and musician that I discovered a few years ago. And for only €1 / $1 for this very interesting library and he has another library at his site he's giving away free -- and his libraries are for the FULL VERSION OF KONTAKT (it costs thousands to license the KONTAKT Player and that often puts that out of reach for small, one person operation, developers) at the site (Switch) that is free with a code (that's provided on the library's landing page), I think it's a no-brainer for KONTAKT owners. He is an out of the box thinker and really talented at sampling. I think he's worth checking into to see if he has anything you like.

I haven't bought Phase Plant, largely because I already have a ton of soft synths and synth libraries and don't even use them enough (I'll have great fun jamming on them, but rarely use most of them in productions). But I own a bunch of Kilohearts effects and their other synth and it is pretty compelling that every time I've seen Phase Plant mentioned, I see nothing but users posting glowing praise of it. Clearly, Kilohearts got things right with Phase Plant. I'm just saying...even though I don't own it, I am impressed by how much I see users praising it.

I love strings, especially the cello, and I've seen a number of recommendations for their Ashen Scoring Cello, which sounds lovely and is on sale for $ 84 USD, reguarly $139 USD. https://wavelet-audio.com/ashen-scoring-cello/

Wavelet Audio Black Friday Sale - up to 50% off on all products until December 6th. https://wavelet-audio.com