Michael Elliott

Are you talking about sustain pedal CC64 events?   Or something else?

I've only ever had keyboards that could output 0-127 for those, so I don't know what the 255 values would be for. 

I don't watch much...mostly I leave assorted science type videos streaming in the background as I do things that don't require my full complete attention (pretty much only music creation/editing does that, aside from the dog...  ). 

Mostly that's because I am always exhausted, never get enough sleep (too many nightmares), so I wake/doze/wake all the time when I'm not at my dayjob (I try not to do that there or on the way to/from  ), and I can't really concentrate on any one specific thing very well, so I let my brain learn multiple things while it's melting anyway.  

When i cannot even do that, but can't sleep, I'll stream assorted scifi shows, mostly ones that are long-running and that I know well enough that I can doze to them without being wakened or having my brain activated by new things.  

But I originally learned to like some of the shows when I didn't have such a big problem with the sleps and bad dreams....  Some things I like because they don't take themselves completely seriously all the time, but they do some thought provoking stuff, or at least have characters / ideas I like: Firefly, Dollhouse, Stargate's various incarnations, the various Star Treks, Doctor Who, the various Outer Limits, the original Twilight Zone (maybe some of the later version); Altered Carbon, and a bunch of ohters ATM I don't recall all the ones I've liked at least some of. 

I really prefer to read than watch, because then it's all in my imagination (which is very very good at visualizing / realizing things whether I want it to or not), but haven't been able to do much of that for some years now; requires more concentration than I have most of the time (i spend that concentration on places like this, trying to help out where I can while I still can; all this crap in my head has to be good for *something*).   Dunno what authors are around nowadays, I'm not even sure that most of the ones I know are still alive much less writing. 😊 

TenCrazy MFX includes CCMap that will convert one CC to another in realtime or offline, and can also choose the range of numbers it responds to, and you can even use it to flip the whole range on it's head. 

Pretty sure one of Viramor's MFX can do this kind of thing, too, but I don't remember which one. (his thread has info on all of them and a link to his site with them). 

There are others I don't recall the names of. 

6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Black Mirror. An excellent show that while it has done well, would have taken over the world had it not been for its unfortunate first episode, which probably cut its potential audience by about 50% due to people watching it and deciding that the show was not for them.

I made it partway in to that episode, and did indeed leave and not come back to the show, as nothing about what I saw was watchable to me.   If the rest of the series is not like that one, I'll give it a shot with ep2. 

I doubt this is it, but if you have any plugins or synths / etc with open floating windows, even if they were minimized, perhaps they are interfering.   If you do have some, try closing them before minimizing SONAR and retest.  

Does the computer do everything else you want?  

Are you looking for something other than the silence SSD drives provide?  

Some effects, like the Lexicon (somethingorothermodel) I've got in the rack, have a footswitch input that can be used directly with a pedal like a sustain pedal.  On mine it's a TRS plug, and supports two switches for controlling different things (it comes with a dual switch), but a single switch like a sustain pedal can be used. 

Some effects, like the Digitech (somethingorothermodel) a friend of mine used to use for onstage effects, had a footswitch input *and* a "CV" input, which is for a pedal that has a potentiometer in it that allows variable control of something.  On most keyboards that's volume by default, but is often programmable in the keybaord (or sound module) for different things; same for effects boxes that support CV (expression) pedals.  

Random article from google search on "CV pedal"

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/expression-pedal-cv

3 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Hexadecimal can be quite scary. And playing around with it too much can make someone go blind.  🤪

I prefer to play with my deweydecimals.    

Way less math, lots more words.....

You might want to recheck it's specs.  Unless they have really messed up the wording, I think you'll need two of them to record 12 mics. Or other additional hardware. 

https://evo.audio/products/audio-interfaces/evo-16/overview/

Quote

Eight award winning EVO Preamps alongside our advanced converter technology will make everything you do, sound better. Add to that, intelligent mic preamps that set their own levels with Smartgain, the all new, groundbreaking Motion UI control system, and enough I/O firepower to tackle even the biggest of sessions, EVO 16 is truly a studio powerhouse, designed from the ground up to make recording easy

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EVO16--audient-evo-16-usb-audio-interface

Quote

Eight stunning Evo microphone preamps

Evo 16's eight Evo mic preamps 

Number of Preamps:8 x mic

They don't mention what driver they use, and don't appear to have a download for it anywhere on their site, none of the support articles their own search finds are from this decade, or find ASIO in any of them.  This is the only comment they have, which doesn't say anything useful at all (since they don't define or state the actual latency, driver type, OS supported by it, etc):  

Quote

 with rock solid driver performance, high-speed USB connection, and ultra low latency monitoring,

1 hour ago, RetroProgDrummer said:

I use a mixer currently. A Depensheng DX12 - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V1D94DR?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

Does this mixer feed audio into the computer?   (you may have to check it's manual if you've never used ti this way)

Or does it record it's inputs onto a memory card or internal drive, that you can then download it's wave files into the computer?

If not, then you would require an audio interface of some kind, even if it's just the line-in built into a laptop (which would suck, but...).  Otherwise you have no way to get audio into the computer. 

1 hour ago, RetroProgDrummer said:

Everywhere I've looked in forum threads & in general searches mention an audio interface. I know they're better in general especially for sound conversion but are they required for multi-tracking?

They are required for sound conversion, period, whether using single tracks, stereo tracks, or many tracks in mono or stereo.  (even if it's built into a mixer or computer, you still need one)

1 hour ago, RetroProgDrummer said:

I use 12 microphones hooked up to the mixer for my drum set and didn't realize I can post mix with Cakewalk but if I can't record each track to mic individually then it would defeat the purpose of using it as a DAW.

If you need each mic's track separately and simultaneously recorded, you'll need at minimum a 12 channel audio interface. 

If you are recording the microphones directly into the computer without mixing them down first, that interface also requires mic inputs on each channel (some only have them on certain ones), and if they are condenser mics you also must have phantom power on each channel.    

If you don't find one that has that many mic inputs, you'll need to add mic-to-line level conversion equipment to any channel that doesn't have a mic input that you must plug a mic into. 

You will want to be sure the interface has a *real* ASIO driver for your computer type and operating system version.  Many that claim to have ASIO drivers do not, and use "steinberg asio" or "asio4all" or "universal asio" and none of those are real low-latency ASIO drivers that you will require to do what you want.  

You'll also need a computer that can simultaneously record *and play back* that many tracks plus all your effects and any other things you want at the same time, with a harddisk large enough and fast enough to store all those tracks and all the other things you mix down or record along the way.   

Before buying, i recommend looking around for people that are doing exactly what you want to be doing, that are doing it without problems, and then use the same system and hardware that they are using, so that you will have the least amount of trouble and problems in setting it up and doing the work you want to do.  

A web search on your post's first sentence finds bunches of stuff, but I've used this one experimentally a few times years ago:

https://www.abc.se/~re/Coagula/Coagula.html

04-28-25:  042425 000001 200096x -- timng and mix changes, bounced some clips to fix repeated broken fade problems (where some of the clips, especially in percussion at the last section, would "get" clip fades that extended *beyond* the actual clip, usualy several clips at a time all the same fade length, when none of htem actually had fades.  Everything fine, save the file, close it, go back later, and they'd be broken like that.  Fix it, resave, close, reopen, and broken again.     But bouncing them fixed it.)

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/behind-you-lie-many-unseen

04-30-25:  042425 000001 200104z -- tweak intro percussion

32 minutes ago, MusicMan said:

I believe he means the fear of them going sub only, AKA the Waves Fiasco...

I don't really know what the waves fiasco was, so I still don't know what that means.  I would *guess* it means subscription, like bandlab stuff is?

I can imagine why you wouldn't want a global echo *on*; there could be projects with so many tracks that this could cause problems suddenly turning all those on. 

But i can't imagine why you wouldn't want to be able to turn them all *off* globally with one click or keystroke. 

9 hours ago, kitekrazy1 said:

 sub pandemic.

Not sure what that means?

04-28-25:  042425 000001 200075v -- replaced awkward section and fixed tuning glitch

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/behind-you-lie-many-unseen

If you meant to reply, whatever you meant to say didn't make it into your posts.  there are only quotes of other people .

Maybe we'll be lucky and they'll go back to the old way of making their stuff work, that was useful and didn't constantly break systems. 

Their present way caused me to give up on them entirely because their updates would break things pretty much every time I went to use their stuff, and instead of making music I'd have to troubleshoot things, which was depressing and wasted all my time so I didn't get to make any music.   

Since their support would only uselessly say to remove and reinstall and redownload all the many gigabytes of stuff again everytime there was any problem, and they would never fix their actual problems with their stuff, I ended up just removing everything of theirs and now I'm much happier with the tools I already had that "just work".   

If they would make it so it just worked locally, no internet connection and no login required, and you just use the version that you already have that just works, no updates or checks required, *then* it would be useful for music.   Otherwise, it's just a headache not worth dealing with. 

3 hours ago, Salvatore Sorice said:

It would be GREAT if you could have *multiple* Console Windows open at once - that would allow for LOTS of tracks (and busses) to be displayed,  

I don't use CV, but I wish there could be multiple *track views* open, with different windows on to various sections, and each one had a separate toggle for "scroll lock" so I could see sections of projects I need to work on "together" (using one as a reference for another) without having to constantly rearrange my tracks and views.     

(even if I had a whole wall that was a monitor, I couldn't fit everything I need all at once at the zoom level I need, so multiple separate independent views is the only way that would do what I really want). 

If you don't mind the extra work (which can be fun if you're open to learning new ways of making up music you might not have tried), you can also use sample packs of vocalists to build the sounds you need from. 

Some are available as instruments to sing them, like the ones from 8Dio in the Seven Solo Voices pack I'd love to get someday,  but there are also individual sample packs that can be used to splice together tracks, pitch shifting and time-stretching and fading bits as needed. 

This is how I have been building my more recent tracks, such as Behind You Lie Many Unseen which uses Elven from Ghosthack's Shymer collection, and The Beaten Dog which uses bits of spoken English phrases to create the lyrics.  These are experiments, and I'm no expert at any of this, so I'm sure anyone that wanted to really do it could do a better job than me, but they're perfectly listenable music even as imperfect as they are. 😊   

Anyway, the point is that if you can't get the original tracks back, and like me can't get a live singer to do what you want, you can still make them (and new songs!) with vocals that still sound good. 

04-27-25:  042425 000001 200063t -- timing and mix changes, and glitch fixes.

  The Elven rock harder than before, in the last minute.

https://amberwolf.bandcamp.com/track/behind-you-lie-many-unseen

This song was built from various sample packs, recorded sounds, etc.  Almost none of the pieces are used wiht any other pieces of the same 'kits" or "stems" they were intended to be.   Some are "loops" of patterns of sound, most are just individiual sound samples.     I used mostly spoken phrases from Veela's Siren bundle for the vocal sounds and words. 

 The sounds were from various bundles I don't recal with much certainty, but the sax bits are from a Basement Freaks bundle called Funk Legends in the Miles subfolder.  

I stretched or squshed them in time to fit the beat of the song, and pitch shifted some of them for variations in ones used more than once, as well as chopping them up into syllables and whatnot. 

(while I'm using existing recordings, it's not really much different in principle from playing a keyboard that uses samples of sounds to make it's instruments (which very very many of them do), except it is a bit more like creating that instrument in the first place (editing the samples for playback).   Or like paying an artist to record things for you that you then edit down into a recording....the main difference being that htese are recorded by such artists so that any other artist that wants to (and buys them) can create whatever they want with them, instead of being recorded to my specifications.   )

I had to cut and composite most of the vocal phrases from the ones available in that bundle to get the words I wanted, and pitch shift or time expand or compress individual syllables as needed to fit the music, and also to create expressiveness that isn't there in the original phrases.   

For instance, "My people" is just one phrase, said rather dully, and I needed it to be more emotional, perhaps wistful or sad when the dog is thinking about what happened, so I listend to the way I could say the phrase myself in different ways utnil I figured out the differences in the way I said it flat and dull vs expressed the way I wnated, and then did those things to the phrase.   I ended up  using the phrase twice in succession, as one might when considering something one may not really want to say out loud and have to pause after starting to, so the first is more matter of fact and the second more emotional.   

One phrase, had all the words I wanted, but all as one rapidly spoken phrase, and I needed it all slower and separated, so the first part was so fast that there are obvious artifacts in it after slowing it down and separating the parts enough to sound the way I wanted, and that's the "there's a reason", followed by the "i'm a shadow".   These aren't in any of the other phrases, so I'm stuck with those.   I found some other vocalist in a differnet bundle but had the wordes but they're not spoken, theyre sung, and they sound totally different than this vocalist anyway, so it wouldn't match. 

I wanted to tell the story more copmletely, but not al the words I need are in the Siren spoken section, and I don't have another source that sounded wistful or sad enough, or could be made so.  So for now, this is as long as the story can be.  I dont' have a specific set of words written down for it ohter than those I used, but the story of an abused dog from it's own point of view, up to it's end, is what this song is meant to be.   Kind of an homage to Kirin, who while probably not beaten, was certainly starved for her first few years along with other dogs at that place, and to Loki who was probably used as a bait dog and had probable cigarette burns all over.   

So at some point I'll expand the song once I can either modify the existing words and phrases I have to do what I want, or find another source to replace all of them with consistent new ones with the right emotional content. (that I hopefully won't have to modify syllable by syllable!).  

This was built almost entirely using Ghosthack's Shymer, Ultimate Composer Bundles 1-3, and Ultimate Cinematic Vocals, though almost none of the pieces are used wiht any other pieces of the same 'kits" or "stems" they were intended to be. As part of the experiment and learning process, I deliberately went thru Shymer's "song kits" and picked only one piece at most from each one.  Some are "loops" of patterns of sound, some are just individiual sound samples.    

The Elvish speech comes as spoken phrases, with English versions as well, in dry (no effects) and "wet" (effects applied), but I like the sound of the elvish versions better so I use them, and I use them for how they sound rather than what they mean (unlike in Gareki where I chose them for their meanings).     Later when I care what's being said and have something to say, I'll use the English ones in some other song.  I did leave most of the phrases intact in their order, but I stretched or squshed them in time to fit the beat of the song, and pitch shifted some of them for variations in ones used more than once. 

The sung syllables in the rockin' Elven section in the last minute of hte song were individual syllables of the chants in FunctionLoops' Ethnic Voices bundle.  I just picked a phrase at random, and split it up, and it turned out to work; almsot none of the syllables are in the order they were sung in.  These were also time-altered and pitch shifted in some cases.  

Similar things were done to choose and modify the staccato strings, the cellos, the long vocalizations and elven phrases, as well as the percussion, fretless bass, etc.

The only piece in there that is nearly unmodified is the pulsing bassline in part of the slow beginning and middle part of the song.

So, while I'm using existing recordings, it's not really much different in principle from playing a keyboard that uses samples of sounds to make it's instruments (which very very many of them do), except it is a bit more like creating that instrument in the first place (editing the samples for playback).   Or like paying an artist to record things for you that you then edit down into a recording....the main difference being that htese are recorded by such artists so that any other artist that wants to (and buys them) can create whatever they want with them, instead of being recorded to my specifications. 

8 hours ago, Fleer said:

Great and generous post!

Now if I can just get someone to take them, especially the piano....    

(hopefully someone from one of the places I "know", like this, will want them, as I'd rather do that than complete unknowns like craigslist / etc). 

6 hours ago, Astraios said:

The DAW is the circus, 
 plugins are the attractions, 
audio and MIDI are the audience, 
and the clown makes fun of all this crap.

This clown (me) makes fun *with* all this crap.