AxlBrutality

Hey there! I see it; I'll reply a bit later this morning....kindof dealing with a household crisis this morning, but I wanted to let you know I did see it and am not blowing you off.

Oh, haha...that's a bit easier/better than the way I looked up. I was literally looking in the system folder where the logs are actually stored...hence the "mile long list of files that might as well be in Russian" comment. I will keep that in mind going forward! I don't plan on doing a lot of recording over the next week or two (which is when it seems to occur the most), but that will definitely be included in my diagnostics from here on out. Thank you (in general), and thanks for helping me help you and everyone else better.

@Robert Bone Bios is up to date, according to my Intel utility (Edit: MSI utility confirms). I do recall having a couple of BIOS updates after I replaced my HDD a few months ago. I also haven't tweaked anything in there. I actually haven't ever looked at the Windows Event Viewer....had to look up where to even find it. I don't recall the exact time frame the last random/memory-based crash occurred (sometime last week, but I don't recall the day), and the event list for the last couple of weeks is a mile long. I can check it next time I have a similar crash, now that I know about it and to look at it. Is there a particular type of event I'm looking for? Shit all might as well all be in Russian as far as I'm concerned, lmao.

Here's the thing....my video cards have been newer cards. Not brand new, but not exactly old-timers either. My laptop (the one that's currently my workstation) has both a recent-build NVIDIA GTX 1050ti and an Intel UHD 630, both with updated drivers [I've tried running these plugs on both cards, to no avail). My wife's desktop (which was formerly my workstation and had the same problems) has a slightly older NVIDIA GTX 1050. (All of those cards also apparently support up to OpenGL 6 or whatever it is now, which supposedly had cleared out a lot of these problems [from what I've read....but we're starting to get into territory that I don't know much about]). Also, unfortunately, due to my laptop being a laptop, and my wife's desktop being a small form factor prebuilt gaming rig (with power and physical space limits because MSI prebuilts suck), I have minimal ability to upgrade any of these cards. It's a possibility, but idk. Might just be time to go back to ASUS rigs...I never had any issues like this with ASUS motherboards or ASUS-versioned NVIDIA cards. (Both these computers are MSI rigs.) I'm not a computer geek though, so again, I only half know what I'm talking about if we go much deeper here. My computer knowledge is better than some, but nowhere near where it probably should be at this point. Lol. Edit: I've done some deeper digging, and it appears that a few Fabfilter users have experienced these issues for years without a resolution, and Fabfilter also continues to use OpenGL anyway. All seem to point to OpenGL conflicts with NVIDIA cards specifically, but as you mentioned, it's been a very small subset of people...most people even with NVIDIA cards seem to not have issues. Strange.

@Noel Borthwick Fair enough, and thanks for all the explanation and clearing the air. We're good. That really does suck, though. I guess I'm off to find comparable (and hopefully not expensive) plugins, and to try to somehow avoid plugins that use OpenGL. Honestly, I'm just glad I have some sort of closure after about a year of wondering about/fighting with this.

Just fyi, I have been provided with a few key updates today, which I have highlighted in green in the OP. @Robert Bone Windows, audio/video drivers, etc....as well as Bandlab (through the most recent hotfix) are all up to date. I am actually painfully meticulous and obsessive about keeping my machine, OS, etc. updated (as well as keeping the disk cleaned and the SSD trimmed). Also should probably note that I did a clean install a few months ago of both Legacy and CbB, along with all of my plugins and such. (I had an HDD failure, and took the opportunity to swap a Solid State drive...so I had to fresh install everything, including my OS.) No major tweaks to Windows other than basic stuff: power options (nothing ever turns off or goes to sleep), "active hours" for updates and maintenance are set to make sure none of that happens when I'm working, and I turn Windows Defender's realtime protection off when I'm working (so as to not have it operational in the background). I also have select suspend for USB ports disabled. Lastly, I have OneDrive (among most other useless programs) uninstalled and have no other antivirus besides WD. I run a pretty clean and updated machine, and make sure as little as possible runs in the background. But I also don't tweak too much that's over my head, and while I do have some limited overclocking ability with this machine, I haven't touched any of that.

Thank you for the details and explanation of what's going on. I wasn't really passed any of that info by the official support channel, only that you had recently finally found a possible cause and it could be on the plugin end, but it wasn't confirmed and you were still investigating. No offense, and maybe I'm misreading your tone here as a bit condescending, but no one has actually confirmed that until you did, just now. Everything in this thread has been speculation...and as mentioned, I wasn't passed any info from CbB customer support other than y'all might have found a potential cause (this was about two weeks ago) and that it appeared to be on the vendor end, but that y'all were still investigating and trying to contact Slate. (And that was after a year of me complaining about it and sending in reports, for the record.) I was given a bunch of language/code to pass along to Slate in case they ever decided to finally get back to me, but I have no idea what I'm looking at there. I'm not a developer. Don't get me wrong...I don't care whose "fault" it is, nor do I have any allegiances here. I just know I can't use several of my favorite plugins, and haven't been able to for a year. (I also didn't bump this thread, which is months old, btw...although I have made references to this problem in general in newer threads because it is a huge source of frustration). I'd also like to note that it was Slate and Melda who were vehement that I test it in Reaper or another DAW, and then neither ever got back to me again after I reported that it worked fine there. I don't know what that's all about, just how it looks. It's not the first time multiple companies have pointed at Cakewalk and then abandoned me...which is why, as I've mentioned to you recently, I prefer to just come to you now regardless of the program in the hopes that you have a professional repertoire with whatever company we're dealing with. Again, I do appreciate the work and the communication. Do you have any idea if JUCE would be working on a fix, and if that would manifest in updates with Slate, Melda, etc. and their plugins? Or are these all pretty much useless plugins for the foreseeable future, and I need to just abandon them and move on (barring some magic from you guys)?

Interesting...it's still listed within the Slate All Access package in the Gobbler application, so I figured there was an actual problem. That would certainly explain things (the whole "no longer being authenticated by my accounts" issue). I wonder why Gobbler didn't get the memo. One issue down. Although, as mentioned, I've never used S-Gear and didn't plan to...so it wasn't a huge deal. Just an annoyance when scanning VSTs and trying to refresh licenses. Thank you!

Allow me to preface this by saying these issues have been reported through the official support channels, as well as to some plugin manufacturers where necessary. Anyway, I seem to be particularly good at encountering and/or uncovering strange bugs and behaviors. They vary in importance/severity for me, though everyone's workflow is different and they may affect others who encounter them more or less. Some of them have been ongoing issues for close to a year and have been recreated on multiple computers, while others I ran into as recently as this morning. Some have had no headway made on investigation; others have known or suspected causes but no solutions yet (obviously). Some may not be Cakewalk issues, some are. The purpose of putting this thread together is a) to see if others are having the same issues and if anyone has potential solutions of their own, b) visibility, to let others who are encountering these or similar issues know they are not alone (and to provide them with information in the future, if solutions are found and they encounter issues in the future), c) to draw attention to them in general, and d) to maybe generate random discussion surrounding various issues. Feel free to ask for more information, provide suggestions, CC anyone you may think might be able to chime in, etc. I'll admit that while I've been a member of this community for many years, I have been mostly quiet unless I have a major, work-stoppage-level bug and/or am really pissed off. Lol. I would like to change that. Warning: Long post. -Cakewalk's VST Scan throws error when encountering Melodyne VST2 Encountered this one this morning out of the blue. I've chosen the option to disable the plugin each time and continue, since I don't currently use Melodyne. Screenshot of Error: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zn0fz2h8c3r73hr/Melodyne Scan Error.png?dl=0 -Cakewalk's VST Scan freezes and hangs indefinitely when encountering Melodyne VST3 Also encountered this one this morning. No idea what causes it, but it renders me unable to complete any new VST scans. I have a fresh dump file if a member of support sees this and wants it, though I've already sent one in. -JST Toneforge Jason Richardson fails to recall/jumbles plugin parameters a) when reopening project and b) often when copying plugin to a new track. Encountered this just this week right after purchasing it. No known cause, happens about 99% of the time, happens with both purchase version and the updated version. The plugin parameters/settings don't just reset to default; they actually get weirdly/randomly jumbled. JST was rather dismissive when I first contacted them, and in fact their social media told me they don't recommend Cakewalk as a DAW. Update: I just received an email from JST support...they can't reproduce the issue and are pointing back at Cakewalk's known struggles with plugin parameter recall. Update 2: JST support was able to reproduce some of the issues, but their workarounds aren't working for me. According to them, there seems to be issues on Cakewalk's end with recognizing and saving parameter changes. They also claim that an update to Toneforge is coming soon that, among other things, redefines how it handles parameter changes...and they claim that it has been tested with favorable results in CbB. I'm trying to facilitate direct conversation between CbB and JST as well; we'll see how that goes. -Slate Virtual Tape Machines, Eiosis DeEsser, MeldaProductions MAutoPitch, LP EQ, and LP MB all fail to fully load GUI and freeze/hang Cakewalk when attempting to do so. This has been ongoing for nearly a year. All plugins work fine when tested in Reaper. VTM will occasionally load GUI, but will hang CbB the moment it gets closed. Eiosis will only partially load GUI, and will hang CbB when closed. MAutoPitch is the worst offender, instantly hanging Cakewalk when opened. LP EQ and LP MB, which had similar/the same issues, have been solved by editing the config files, changing the OpenGL value from 1 to 0. Cakewalk support discovered an issue with one of them (I believe it was VTM) not responding to a GUI command, but I haven't heard anything else since. I have fresh (as of this morning) dump files for the MAutoPitch, VTM, and Eiosis hangs, if support sees this and wants them. Just say something and I'll PM them. Update: Noel has just given a full confirmation and explanation of these problems and the situation here: https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/4083-major-freezinghanging-issues-with-an-interesting-cause-and-no-obvious-solution-any-ideas/&do=findComment&comment=82296 Slate S-Gear refuses to recognize Gobbler or iLok Authentication during VST Scan New as of this morning. Haven't paid much attention to it, and just skip the authentication process (because I don't use S-Gear). Update: Apparently S-Gear is no longer a part of Slate/Slate's All Access Bundle, explaining the expired license/refusal to authenticate. Not sure why it still appears in Gobbler as a part of the bundle. -Random Crashes...particularly when recording, and usually when CbB has been open for an extended amount of time (longer than a half hour)... Sometimes it hangs and I can create a dump file. Other times it just closes out completely with no errors or hangs. What's particularly alarming, however, is that NO activity from the session is saved, even with autosave enabled and working and manual saves also done throughout the session. And no recovery copy is attempted to be made 95% of the time. I've lost hours of work due to this. I was able to create a dump file for CbB support recently, and while it's fairly random, they believe it to be a memory corruption or leak of some sort...particularly when Cakewalk is writing the waveform. That's all I know right now. I think that's it for now. There were actually about a half dozen others that weren't big deal to me, so I never said anything, but they were actually finally fixed in the last couple of updates (shout out to @Noel Borthwick and company for their work...the ASIO buzzing during rapid start/stop of playback was actually pretty annoying). I apologize and can't help but think maybe attention would have brought to them sooner if I had spoken up as well. I will try to be a more productive member of this community and more helpful to support from here on out (hence threads like this). I'd also like to give a shout-out to @Starship Krupa and @Robert Bone for their attempts at helping with a few of these issues, and their patience with my frustration at times. I suppose that's all for now. Cheers, y'all.

All three plugins with this issue (Slate VTM, Eiosis DeEsser (distributed by Slate), and MeldaProductions MAutoPitch) test fine in Reaper. That was actually the first thing Slate asked me to do when I contacted them almost a year ago. (Unfortunately, after reporting that, I never heard back from them.) I have yet to update the Melda plugin; will do that at some point. Cakewalk support recently indicated they had found an issue with a response to a GUI command with VTM, but I haven't heard anything since (that was about a week ago). I am currently in the process of gathering all my bugs (these and more...I encountered yet another one this morning), recreating all of the dump files, and putting together one massive bug report...which I will post in a separate, condensed, updated thread so as to maybe help others as well.

Unfortunately, the plugin won't even fully load the GUI, and freezes (and hangs CbB) before I can do anything. Also, the 64-bit double precision engine is turned off.

@Lord Tim Thanks; yea, I've heard lots of good shit about AA...just kinda wanted some confirmation their stuff works well in CbB. I'm actually taking a pretty hard look at the Dominator and the Hellbeast. For sure. I actually own a whole bunch of Ownhammer IRs, which are absolutely stellar IMO. I usually run their Mesa and Deizel cabs opposite of each other for rhythms and get a pretty heavy tone, and their Mesa and EDVH cabs work great for leads. They've worked great with the 6505 in Peavey Revalver, but Revalver hasn't had much support for a few years, is more difficult to dial in, it's older and can be quite noisy, and...outside of the 6505...it doesn't have a whole lot of options for modern extreme metal. I also just got an email last night stating Revalver actually just got sold, so who knows what's gonna happen with it or what changes will be made. I feel like it's just time to maybe move on to something newer and better geared towards what I do. That was my plan with Toneforge, which I actually love, but like I said Toneforge isn't playing very well with CbB right now and we haven't been able to debug it yet. Yea, Toneforge is the same way. It's a common complaint, but I think people (particularly musicians, as opposed to engineers) expect these things to be more "plug and play" than they are, can be, or should be. Appreciate the input! EDIT: Oh man, shoulda bought it last night; missed my chance at the $5 sale. Lol.

Ironically, I started grouping everything together in one VST folder in what was an attempt at cleaning up and having some better file management. Lol. I had no idea about some of these issues. Seems I have a ton of housekeeping to do in the morning. Not gonna lie; I'll jump for joy if that's the issue with both the VST2 and VST3 versions of Toneforge. Unfortunately, the issues with my other plugins are actually a GUI/OpenGL problem that's proven difficult to resolve, and is unlikely to be a permissions issue. I'll respond more in-depth to your PM tomorrow (I'm headed to bed) and expand on that and some other things. Cheers!

Joey develops some bada** plugins for sure, and he's super in-tune with what the extreme metal community in particular wants and needs. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time, nor the first circumstance in which, I (and other users) have had issues with him, his tech support, or his social media team. In fact, there have been major blowups in his Facebook groups over the last couple of years that have led to him being called out by a lot of people...and ultimately led to some of the biggest contributors in his community leaving and never coming back. Creating presets doesn't seem to work on my end, no. I was actually kindof hoping that it's the same parameter recall issue that has been addressed (as a side note, funnily enough, I never experienced that issue), since that would mean it's already had a lot of work and attention devoted to it and there would already kinda be a starting point. But yea, I have no idea if it's related or the same thing (though it does seem like it). Just kinda frustrating dropping $50 on a plugin that can barely be used. Especially one that I actually really like, and I was hoping to fully transition away from my old amp sim (Revalver). I'm a creature of habit and tend to get comfortable, and I hate change. So when I take a chance and try something new, that's kindof a big step for me...and when I get burned right out of the gate, it kinda reinforces my unwillingness to try new things or take chances, ya know? Add that to some other issues I'm having with some of my favorite plugins, and I'm in the middle of a project which has been stalled with various Cakewalk and third-party vendor issues, and then on top of that everything my life isn't going the greatest in general right now (and working on music is usually my escape from that)....I'm just kinda in a miserable spot. I don't even want to power on my workstation at this point, and that shouldn't ever happen. Music is supposed to be joy, not an additional source of frustration or a chore.

https://audioassault.mx Have been wanting to experiment with some different amp sims after getting a little tired of Peavey Revalver. Love the sound of JST's Toneforges, but have been having issues getting them to play well in Cakewalk. In the meantime, I keep coming across this "Audio Assault" company and everyone seems to love them. But I haven't seen much in the way of CbB, specifically, usage/compatibility confirmation from the field...and my Toneforge experience has made me wary of dropping cash on amp sims for CbB right now. Additionally, considering AA is a very small company and their sims are dirt cheap (some are constantly on sale for only like $5, and I've found in general you often "get what you pay for" with amp sims), I was kinda looking for some peace of mind. Any metalheads out there have any sims (or plugins in general) from these guys? (Or, is anyone willing to spend $5 and be a guinea pig? Lmao.)

No problem; I understand....life has thrown quite a bit at me lately as well, so I get having a full plate. I've sent in full reports to both Cakewalk and JST as well, though JST is being...less than helpful and seems to have some animosity towards Cakewalk/Cakewalk users. Either way, I've tried to cover all my bases. I've also spent a few hours of my own trying to trigger new behavior or find solutions, to no avail. For now, I just have to remember my settings and reapply them across like 8 tracks each and every time I work on this project.

@Jonathan SasorI also want to mention (apologies for the double post, but this is kindof an entirely separate sentiment/thought): Many years ago, when I was in audio school, ProTools was still the absolute king and was thought to be the only real "professional" option. Logic was close behind, although it was slightly more limited and geared more towards specific kinds of music production. Sonar was light years ahead of anyone else in a lot of ways, and I strongly felt that out of everyone, it was next in line and the only real challenger. I was one of Sonar's biggest champions, and I pushed the program to everyone I knew. Even through some of its issues, I felt that way until just a few years ago. And to this day, Sonar/CbB is still, in my opinion, the best combination of ease-of use ("consumer friendly") and capability (for advanced/"power" users). However, years of mismanagement and poor marketing by various parent companies...along with a history of bugs and instability...relegated Cakewalk to nothing more than an afterthought to most in the industry. Sometimes, even less than an afterthought. Now, many plugin manufacturers don't even test their stuff in Cakewalk, and brush off users who have issues in it. It's sad. Cakewalk had (and still has) so much potential, but has been steamrolled over by products such as Cubase and, more recently, Studio One (which is gaining a TON of popularity)...and even Reaper. Support for Cakewalk has all but disappeared...which I'm sure makes y'all's job more difficult, but imagine how some of us longtime loyalists feel. So of course, we're gonna be incredibly frustrated at times...not getting help from anyone (either by design from plugin companies, or because of a lack of resources on Cakewalk's part). And I still fear that being a "free" product....bankrolled by Bandlab and subject to its whim and the financial state of its ownership and their other products/cookie jars, has its dangers. And I'm still concerned for its future and the state of the DAW itself. I've mentioned it before, but I...like many other users...would have no problem paying for the product to see it flourish.

Um....so grouping all of one's plugins (both VSt2 and VST3) together in Program Files/Cakewalk/VSTPlugins isn't a great idea? Asking for a friend. Also, thanks for the info; I was not aware of any of that.

I just want to mention that this is a very frustrating part of it all for many of of us. I've mentioned it elsewhere, but Cakewalk isn't held in very high regards by some vendors/publishers/plugin devs. And unfortunately, some of them are pretty big players on the scene, which forces us into a position of doing without some of our favorite plugins, or moving to a much more supported platform, such as Cubase....which we don't necessarily want to do (especially those of us who are longtime users of 10,15,20 years). My only beef with that is that there have been times in the past where I've got a specific issue happening across several plugins from different companies, and they (the companies) are all pointing the finger at Cakewalk (and indeed, the plugins work in other DAWs on my system)...yet Cakewalk has thrown their hands up and said "not us" or "not something we can fix". Or the issue has gotten shoveled to the back burner. It does happen, and that makes me wary of that statement. I understand it's a valid excuse and that's that's genuinely the situation sometimes, but it's an easy one to fall back on when workloads are heavy or a problem is difficult to track down. And as the end-users, we don't always know the details, so you gotta understand how it looks sometimes. Personally, as a small business owner and such myself, I recognize that...and do thus give y'all more leeway than some other users do. It doesn't make things less frustrating on our end, though...so I guess just as you are asking for understanding and patience from us, I'd ask the same of y'all. When a user has lost hours of work, or can't get a plugin to work that they heavily depend on....they're not gonna be in the best of moods. Thanks for stopping in and attempting to communicate!

One thing I want to mention just in general is that there is often an unwillingness on the part of plugin manufacturers to dig into problems that involve Cakewalk, when we contact them directly. I really much prefer to go directly to you/CbB and have you deal with them these days. I've had Slate (and the various manufacturers they partner with), MeldaProductions, and JST all very flatly point the finger back at Cakewalk and refuse to dig further into issues, even without having been given much information. It is what it is. I'm not sure what y'all's standing with some of these manufacturers/publishers is, but it doesn't always seem to be good. I don't like getting stuck in the middle of a three-way finger-pointing session (It's particularly frustrating when you guys can't figure something out or believe it's an issue on the plugin companies' end, but they all vehemently state that it's an issue on CbB's end), and ending up having to do all the diagnostics on my own and just throw it at everyone and hope someone can solve it. Particularly when it's not my job and I'm not being paid for my troubles. As mentioned, there are some manufacturers that don't seem to hold Cakewalk (or the previous Sonar iterations) in high regard. In fact, JST (a pretty big player in the scene now, especially among rock/metal engineers and musicians) has flat out recently told me to switch DAWs (not just for troubleshooting purposes, but permanently) and that they don't recommend Cakewalk. (So at that point, I end up just getting frustrated/mad at everybody, which admittedly doesn't help.) Lastly, there are a lot of instances where it's not easy to identify whether it's the plugin or the host, so often I push concerns to you guys by default (for the above reasons and more). I realize coming to you guys with everything may be cumbersome, but it really is better and easier that way on our end...and I'm quite sure that less experienced/knowledgeable users don't know any better or have any idea what they're doing. As CbB continues to be free and expand into new userbases, you're going to deal with that much more often.

I don't mean to nitpick, but these two statements seem contradictory. Unless you do specifically mean that what drive it's on doesn't matter, but what folder it's in does (for specific reasons)? Also, I actually wasn't aware of the second part of your statement. Are you suggesting it's better for VSTs to go in a top-level or desktop folder or something? I have an awful lot of migrating to do if that's the case...something I'm not particularly looking forward to. Lol.

Your experience may not mirror that of other users, including myself...and thus isn't any more or less valid than another's. That's the problem with anecdotal evidence. Also, just because something is free does not mean that one should not expect a functional product, e.g., the one that was advertised or represented to them. Especially a product which can obliterate hours of work with a single hang or crash (even with autosave enabled). Lastly, I'd like to point out that there are many of us who would gladly go back to paying for the product if it would increase the resources available to Noel and the team to get things done in more volume, with more speed, and with fewer problems. ____________________________________________________________________ @Starship Krupa -I will say that Cakewalk is more stable than it/SPLAT used to be, but it's still, in my experience (and others I know and work with IRL), far more instable than most other major DAWs. It's still a source of frustration for many of us, and that doesn't help with the program's reputation-rebuilding. Cakewalk/Sonar has a decade+ history of instability, memory leaks and corruption, etc., so when those issues still hang around for plenty of users...well, it is what it is. And I totally understand that. But when users like myself have had some of the same issues for months or even years on multiple machines and configurations, it gets a little frustrating to hear "well it works fine here" and "we need you to do allk the legwork and troubleshooting". I also know that if a user is particularly frustrated and venting, some of the people that pull out the "well it works fine here" are not necessarily using that as a troubleshooting mechanism. They're firing back at said user, and that's not fair. Admittedly, I was much more active on the old forums years ago, and am much more of a lurker these days. However, yes, if a problem gets big enough, I do (and have) run it by here. Having said that, I much prefer to go straight to tech support. Over the last 16+ years, I've been jaded a bit by the community (as we've kinda discussed)...not just by the attitudes of some of the regulars, but I've also found that the amount of speculation, guesswork, and generally unhelpful and elementary advice far outweighs actual solutions. I'll admit, however, that visibility to the general public is important for other reasons, and not being more active here may be a bit selfish. Another factor, though, is that usually when stuff goes wrong for me, it's big. You, and everyone else, don't want me posting here when I've just lost 3 hours of work on a major project or something. Lol. There's a very thin line that separates people like me from people like the OP, which was kindof the point of my original comment and something I was trying to address. Yea, it is. A few of them (includingMAutoPitch) actually have the exact same problem, and I've been trying to find or receive a solution for nearly a year. (And yes, this is one of the ones I have posted about.) Additionally, communications with customer/tech support have been disjointed and frustrating at times. So yea, a bit frustrated. It seems that recently we have begun to make headway on a possible cause, but no resolution as of yet. Others are recently purchased plugins from fairly established and reputable companies that work fine in other DAWs, but have massive problems in Cakewalk. Now, keep in mind, I'm not just frustrated with Bandlab/Cakewalk...there are some plugin manufacturers (*cough* JST *cough*) that seem to look down on Sonar/Cakewalk and always have, and don't really prioritize us. Apparently Cakewalk isn't a "real" DAW to them or something. JST actually told me this morning " we recommend ProTools, Studio One, Cubase, Reaper, Ableton, and Logic". I've never had a plugin manufacturer until today straight up tell me I need to permanently switch DAWs because one of their plugins has an issue in cakewalk. So yea....Cakewalk isn't the only target of my frustration, lol. Having said that, other plugin companies have much more eloquently suggested that problems are on Cakewalk's end, and it does say something when 5 different manufacturers are pointing at Cakewalk, but you get Noel coming in here saying "nuh uh" or "doubtful" for the 600th time just because he can't reproduce it on his end after an hour and seems to want everyone else...including the end user...to do all the leg work for him. Yea, I recall seeing that, and declined to jump in because I saw no point in stirring the pot even more...considering I was basically witnessing the same old nonsense from many users, as we've discussed. Lol. I wanted no part of that. Addressing the whole last part of your comment, here's my problem: It shouldn't take a bona fide Youtube celebrity of some level to get a problem fixed, and we as users shouldn't have to state our credentials to get priority. I use Cakewalk on a daily basis, both for personal and professional purposes. I'm an actual engineer that dropped thousands on an audio education. I've been with this program in its various iterations for nearly two decades. And as mentioned, I was somewhat active on the old forums many years ago. And I have a LOT of time and money invested in this DAW, and I have several friends who until recently were also longtime loyalists. But I don't usually lead off with any of that in emails to tech support or in posts here, nor do I rant about it in my sigs. Because conversely to your point, I don't want to be "that guy"....the self-important ***** that wants to swing his weight around to get prioritized. But it seems that....or having a Youtube channel...is what gets attention around here these days. So idk, lol. With regard to the "freeware" bit...I'll reiterate what I said to a previous commentator: "just because something is free does not mean that one should not expect a functional product, e.g., the one that was advertised or represented to them. Especially a product which can obliterate hours of work with a single hang or crash (even with autosave enabled). Lastly, I'd like to point out that there are many of us who would gladly go back to paying for the product if it would increase the resources available to Noel and the team to get things done in more volume, with more speed, and with fewer problems." I'll never be as active as some of you, and I try not to post if I don't actually have something to say or contribute....I'm one of those "don't pipe up if you don't really have a solution or a really big problem". Haha. But if I do choose to stay with Cakewalk, I suppose I will make more of an attempt to speak up here. Hey now, that mic got me through some tough times early on. Lmao. Everybody's gotta start somewhere. Does threatening to take my Rode NT2A home carry a bit more weight? Or do I have to own a Neumann for that to work? Thanks for the civil discussion, btw.

Rather than make a rant thread of my own (which I was considering before stumbling across this thread), I figured I'd hop in here and piggyback with some thoughts. Firstly, language barriers are easy to spot, but also easily misinterpreted and mistakenly attacked if one is in a "mood" and the poster in question is also in a "mood". That doesn't make that user a "troll" or their thoughts and feelings any less valid. Have some patience. Some of you have exercised great patience and understanding ( @Robert Bone being one such character for the most part). Others, not so much. Having said that, once in a while there are going to be users that come in here and vent that are genuinely at their wits' end. I have been at that point and somehow held back. At one point a few months ago, I actually came here and had a several-paragraph-long rant all typed out and ready to go, and for some reason thought better of it at the last minute. Some users go through with it and hit that "post" button though. And you know what? I think some members of this community, as well as the developers, could be more understanding at times. As for me, and why I'm here posting this...I sympathize with the OP a bit, and am ready to hit the post button in my own right. I was at my wits' end a few months ago and was nearly ready to walk away from Cakewalk. I finished the project I was on (limping through it) and took a couple of months off from making music. I've recently come back to the same problems and frustrations, plus a few more.....and you know what? My frustrations are at a boiling point again. I can probably vent a little more eloquently than OP, but there are a few things that occur to me within this community: A) Users and developers both here tend to push back instinctively...and hard... against any criticism of themselves or the product B) Cakewalk representatives and developers, in my personal experience, are far too quick to say "Okay, bye" when someone says they're abandoning Cakewalk...rather than digging deeper into the problems and actually trying to fix them. C) Nobody wants to actually admit that Cakewalk has a LOT of problems compared to other DAWs, and always has. There are many, many things Cakewalk does well, don't get me wrong...there's a reason I've stuck with it over the years even while tearing my hair out...but it's not the best functioning DAW overall. I've known many Cakewalk loyalists of several years that were finally forced to move on. Personally, I have two reasons for not having done so yet...firstly, I'm not made of money, and can't afford hundreds of dollars for another full-service DAW right now. Secondly, having been with Cakewalk/Sonar for 16 years and counting, I've been willing to give it 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th chances because I hate change and I'm comfortable with the nuances of Cakewalk....and I don't want to invest a shitton of cash into another product that ends up having that one little stupid thing or another that I need be different or missing. But as I said, I sympathize with the OP. I get it (the frustration). I've lost countless hours of work thanks to stability issues, memory leaks, general crashes, and more (which Cakewalk is famous for, outside of y'all's little bubble here). So yea, I get it. I've also not been able to use probably about half of my favorite plugins in Cakewalk for months now. Slate VTM, Eliosis DeEsser, MeldaProductions MAutoPitch, and now most recently, Toneforge Jason Richardson to name a few. VTM, Eliosis, and Toneforge are particularly work-stoppage level problems. I also couldn't use LP MB or LP EQ for many months, until another user on here finally gave me the solution they had figured out (that the devs never addressed over the years). That solution required having me go in and edit language in the coding that, as an end-user, shouldn't have been my responsibility (or place) in the first place. So yea, I get it. I've spent weeks going back and forth between Cakewalk and various plugin manufacturers, caught in the middle of the "everybody point the finger at everyone else" game. Though, it's pretty interesting when established companies like Slate, JST, and Meldaproductions all vehemently state Cakewalk is the issue, and their plugins do indeed work fine in other DAWs I test them in. So yea, I get it. I've spent hours trying to work with Cakewalk tracking down major bugs, only to have them never resolved...or resolved maybe a year later. So yea, I get it. I've repeatedly been the one to come across bugs that seemingly no one else has experienced or reported, ended up getting brushed off as a corner case that is never really given many resources, and had to just "live with it"....no matter how much functionality is affected. So yea, I get it. I've seen the "tolerant" at best, dismissive and/or deflective tone at worst...that @Noel Borthwick and others at Cakewalk can take at times. So yea, I get it. And last but not least, I've also been on the receiving end of the apathetic "okay, bye" from users, customer service reps, and developers when I mentioned looking at leaving for another DAW. So yea, I get it. So before people just jump down the throat of people like OP, just remember...there are always a LOT more like him out there (and it might be wise to hear them out when they do speak up...even if they're in a frustrated/angry state and need to vent). Some of us just usually keep our mouth shut and try to tough it out for longer. Some of us have a bit of an understanding of how some things work, and we do try give Cakewalk and the devs a little bit more leeway. And contrary to popular belief, when we threaten to leave Cakewalk...some of us don't actually want to. But we're being backed into a corner where it seems we don't have a choice, and all too often it seems Cakewalk either just doesn't care, or doesn't have the ability or resources to keep up (or both). Bandlab may have given Cakewalk a new face, but it's the same community, the same program, the same everything. For better...and, more to the point...for worse. @chuckebaby As mentioned earlier in my post...all due respect, I disagree and feel that @Some Guy is pretty spot on in his assessment of the community at times. Painting a royally warm and fuzzy picture of it doesn't make it so. I may not post much, but I've lurked these and the old forums for many years...it's amazing how defensive regulars can get. It has gotten much better since the migration, but the underlying tension, unhelpfulness, and unnecessary hostility is definitely still there at times...and this thread is a perfect example of it.

@Robert Bone Well, apparently I celebrated too soon. It's back to doing the same thing about 80% of the time. Lol.

@Robert Bone Hey, just an update...it has apparently been fixed. JST sent me an updated version of the plugin, and the problem seems to be gone. Strange to me that they don't give you the latest updated version when they sell it to you, but oh well. Lol.