Tim Smith

This is kind of like if a tree falls in the forest does it make a noise? You yin yangin us?

Yeah you had to get the last post in didn't you ? ? Never heard of photography as a vice. Glad you enjoy it. I have an old Cannon I sometimes take pics with. Problem is there's nothing particularly photogenic around here.

Oh they'll have fun at anybody's expense. Most of us are too stubborn to quit. Maybe hanging around here some of the stubborness will rub off!!!!!! If anything you'll figure out what not to do. How? If we are doing it, then it might not be advisable.

Well he's already helped to make a sale. I bought the Uebershall upright bass from Best Service. I was under the impression is was a basic VST sample library. It sorta kinda is. I was pleasantly surprised it has built in Elastik technology I've never used before. I know Cakewalk has Elastik stretch capability. This is entirely different. I was able to get not only nice bass for a jazz track. I was able to get the groove using the 22 dollar library. Seems a cross between a vst and a looper. This isn't a library for rockers. Just thought you'd like to know the site is already having an effect on my wallet.

Oh I see. One option I took note of so far as Bass control is concerned is to select different basses. One with a high end you really like, the other with the best low end playing the same part. If I had a studio recorded bass track I might make an audio to midi copy of it. At that point that sky is the limit with what could be done using sampled basses either alongside real bass or in addition to. I might roll off below a certain freq. on one and roll off above a certain freq. on the other. You could even treat the same bass differently using two ( or more) tracks with this technique. What I hear you saying ( and the reason to do it in the first place) would be we like what we hear on the track most of the time so we don't want to loose it. Other tracks could potentially step on it effectively masking a desirable sound. Two tracks, similar frequencies competing. Possible solutions: - Old ducking side chain technique, which as you pointed out, can kill the dynamics in the whole track. If there wasn't anything to kill by side chaining, then it might work ok. Cakewalk has a decent master compressor with side chain capability for anyone who wants to experiment with it. I think this technique works best with a light touch. IOW low compression setting only knocking back a few db. -Multiple tracks of same or similar instrument and parts cut up various ways using EQ with the offending freqs minimized through individual track treatment. The advantage over multi band compression is we have more control over individual elements using any plugin or method we desire. The disadvantage is it can get complicated all depending. Too much treatment and there could be phase issues, alignment issues etc. due to delays through plugins. A simple approach to this is probably best. -Shifting frequency emphasis or de emphasis on offending tracks using EQ. Dissimilar tracks don't collide. I have found using this technique never completely wipes out the collisions because they almost always overlap slightly. Cutting them completely can sound artificial. It certainly helps, and might help enough to slide a mix into ok territory. This is usually the first thing I try. Sometimes I think the modern listener is so accustomed to leveled material, they think a level uninteresting track is what they need. Anything that jumps out scares them. Do we want dynamics, lack of dynamics or something in between? This is where plugin automation can be so important IMO. Many 'set and forget' a plugin never using the potential the plugin has for automation. Maybe I want the acoustic guitar to really stick out until the synth comes in. Then I want the guitar and the synth to carry it equally. I might do better to automate a compressor or EQ setting than to automate volume. Admittedly for me it's a time saver to automate volume over finding a compressor I like and mapping it to my controller. I wouldn't go so far as to call it laziness but it's close. The nice thing about the Cakewalk Pro Channel is you can automate EVERYTHING, yet I think many most often only automate volume. Templates would help since we can use the same template over and over again. We can map a controller and save it to template. I don't tend to copy mix settings across songs but that's me. I was using MDynamic EQ, the Ozone dynamic EQ's for awhile. Then I went to Fabfilter and often use the dynamic features in it. I go back and forth between several for this application and they really work well for what they do. Especially nice for having a visual of the mud, being able to monitor only that section ( fabfilter) and dynamically control it. With 20 guitar tracks on a metal mix ha ha....no it isn't funny. It's a huge mix within a mix and yes, those tracks ( or any other tracks) have a cumulative effect on the mix bus. I see it like the way a pencil artist makes a rough sketch with undefined lines as compared to a finely drawn picture. How do you take multiple guitar tracks and make that fine line? This was one of the challenges of mixing metal for me. We have lack of definition and we have mud buildup if it isn't tamed. I'm sure many engineers have spent hours lining up audio and removing phase issues. Not sure of your exact approach, I wanted some dissimilarity because it adds dimension and character. I didn't want to go too far and get a bunch of out of sync garbage either. It always seemed to be a balancing act. Fix one thing and something else pops up.

I guess we are all at least entitled to our opinions. They can't take that away. I don't think it's over if a person is asking the question. If it's over you'll know it's over.

I seen this on YouTube and wondered if anyone has experience using this EQ? Looks interesting. Looks like Kirchhoff has a demo. Maybe I'll give it a try.

I'm mostly side chaining bass frequencies and setting those frequency limits when I side chain. I'm guessing you mean there isn't much control over the send to the side chain? I guess you could post send an eq'd version of the track by putting an EQ post. Might be making things more complicated than they need be too. This is interesting because I had been putting my compression in a box so to speak. I only seen it as either a track plugin or a master plugin, IOW what does this TRACK need as opposed to how can I use it to affect the entire mix. I had not heard of Trackspacer ? I'll need to check it out. Thanks!

Their market seems primarily focused on the music for movie crowd IMO. This is a great plugin for that. I agree on the pricing. Hopefully it will come down. If they start low they have nowhere to go. Starting too high though has the tendency to alienate others who might have considered it UNLESS they throw this into Komplete and offer a sale on it. I agree it's all about perceived value.

Using one track's compression to indirectly influence other tracks in a mix isn't something I had ever considered but I guess it makes sense. I once WAY overused compression in general. If I use compression on an individual track I'm most often looking only to 'tickle' any stray transients with a fairly fast attack. I have found some compressors can easily goof with the track in bad ways, so I only go for track compression if it seems absolutely necessary. It's easy for me to ruin a piano track attempting to remove the hard attacks. I suspect you might have also had some success with that mix if you had side chained into a compressor . You must have had it set perfectly to bring the bass line out.

Very welcome jack c. I find the subject interesting. Another trick sometimes used on the master bus is using plugins that cancel stereo out on the bass and mid bass regions. This has the effect of cleaning a mix up. The theory being bass isn't directional so to keep it in a mono zone allows more breathing room in the material that is directional. There are more of these plugins around than I was aware. While not always used on the master, they make great ways to shape the low end on a master. One of those plugins is Waves Vitamin sonic enhancer. This plugin lets you select a crossover frequency and make a bass range totally mono. Ozone Imager works for this too. In mixing every rule seems to have an exception. In some cases it is actually desirable to have some stereo in a low track. I have seen this work well for a synth with a lot of low end energy in it in the 200-500 range, this would be the low mids range. If you shape it right those frequencies in a synth track can really cut well in a mix. If the synth has 20-150 energy that's fighting my other tracks I would probably roll it off. If it's useful though I might keep it and make it mono using something like Waves Vitamin or Ozone Imager.

Is that a beard on his face or an extension of his hair?

That's a lot of storage for the $$. Some have complained about the heat. At 5400 rpm probably not a stream drive. I looked at something like this that is USB 3.0 to store and stream sample libraries and videos from. Not nearly as large but 7200 rpm.

Probably a huge investment in learning to play the accordion and what does he get ? The joy of making a cow happy.

I never got into mixing metal the way @Lord Tim has, but I've had enough of a taste of it to know that for me it was HANDS DOWN the toughest genre of music I have ever mixed. I have mixed pretty much everything and metal always comes out on top as the toughest with rock ranking a close second. What I'm referring to is a mix that compares with commercial mixes in that genre. It shouldn't be too difficult right? Just a couple of guitars,a vocalist, a bass and a drummer. The problem is they are all competing with one another more. The drums and bass are constantly fighting for space. The guitar solo has to punch though. The whole thing needs to sound massively loud balanced and powerful while still abiding by the LUFS standards. Mixing that was a fine line that had to sit just right, and no matter how many hours I put into it, if I put it up for suggestions on a board somewhere there would always be the comment that this or that should be changed. As most here know- HUGE difference in mixing ITB and mixing a band.

I was looking to see if that was real. I looks like maybe it could be CGI. One thing is for sure- Dumb things happen. We should rip this and put music to it.

The site is amazing and becoming amazing(er) What's not to like? I'm thinking we might need a 12 step program in case this gets too carried away. ............and I might need to reluctantly let my wife lock up my wallet. I'm only remotely thinking about possibly considering the possibility of that.?. If I did that I could still write the CC numbers down.Yep. I don't want to be the poor schmuck with his mug shot up there accused of buying the kitchen sink library............complete with drain and garbage disposal sounds. But it was only 9.99!

Yes I think most of us would want Kontakt. I was surprised though at the nice piano and orchestra library sounds ( 3rd party) now included in the new max version. Ableton has gotten their foot in the door for so many controllers now which make the program much easier to use. Offering their lite version included for free is a wise marketing move. I am neutral on the program itself. Probably because I'm not doing a lot of audio stretching or looping right now. As a basic DAW with decent plugins it's better than I thought it would be until I got deeper into it. Things I find intuitive about it- I like how easy it is to zoom the screen to exactly where you want to go. It has been a very stable and fast program. Not living well with VST2 though.

Someone mentioned the yearly sales .vs just buying the update for MAX. To me it looks like the latter is the better deal. If I used my jam points I could probably cut further into that 99.00 price. Not too shabby for what amounts to one of the most massive pretty much everything bundles to be had anywhere.

I have heard some amazing mixes with Session Drummer. Done right they are still on par with many other drum programs IMHO.

Yep I have Flatulus too. I'm not sure why I bought it and I wonder what the admission says about me I did make a little diddy called Farting elves, and yes it sounded like mischievous elves kind of throwing a little gas in there back and forth. I am thinking that elves library was also a Soundiron product. I could have sworn my shirt lifted off my back when I heard a few of those samples.

I had to come back and say what an amazing library this is, especially for the price. Arturia programming prowess shines here.

I guess I considered the implications of mentioning other DAWS here, and I overode myself because I equally like Cakewalk and Cubase for what they do. Hey thanks for the info. I have already been a serious Guiney pig here. What's another update going to hurt? (famous last words).