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Josh Wolfer

Need better layout for markers, now time, etc when using aim assist (x)

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There is a general clutterness with the time bar. 

See the screenshot below. General issues are:

  • The marker gets cluttered up by both the aim assist line, as well as the now time "stop" sign. 
    • If the now time stop symbol were above on its own track, this could remedy this. 
  • The aim assist is overriding the standard measures / beat markers.
    • This may not seem like a big deal, since the aim assist has its own MBT label, it's harder to quickly understand. I have to "read" the aim assist MBT as opposed just "seeing" where it is. 
    • If the aim assist MBT were under the standard measure / beat labels, this would fix the issue. 
  • When zoomed in far enough (second screen shot), the beat is added into the labels (M:B). This also makes it much harder for me to see which is the first beat of the measure.
    • If there was a way to toggle showing the beat when zoomed in, I'd love to be able to turn it off. 
    • Another possibility would be to color the first beat differently, or bold it, so I can still easily "see" where beat one is without having to "read" where beat one is. 

I realize that these are pretty nit picky changes, but they've bothered me for a while. If it's low hanging fruit, it's be great to have some of these changed, or at least have the option to change. I understand that not everyone's workflow or preferences are the same. 

Thanks Bandlab! Been doing a great job lately!

annoy1.PNG

annoy2.PNG

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Here is another problem with the current layout. When I stop on a measure that has a marker, I can't right click the marker to change the text, because the stop sign is blocking the marker. I have to click to another spot to move the "now time" and then I can right click the marker.

annoy3.PNG

Edited by Josh Wolfer
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1 hour ago, Josh Wolfer said:

The marker gets cluttered up by both the aim assist line, as well as the now time "stop" sign. 

Use CNTRL+SHIFT+A to clear your selection

1 hour ago, Josh Wolfer said:

The aim assist is overriding the standard measures / beat markers

Aim Assist is snap dependent, meaning you set it using the snap module

1 hour ago, Josh Wolfer said:

When I stop on a measure that has a marker, I can't right click the marker to change the text,

Good point. I've always had an issue with that. but while my mouse is there to edit the name of the marker, it takes 1 click to move it. not a deal breaker IMO.

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Aim Assist is snap dependent, meaning you set it using the snap module

Let me clarify. It's not the snap behavior I'm referring to. In the specific example from my first screen shot. The aim assist label (74:04:639) is covering up measure 75 under it. This is not ideal to me.

Frankly, it would be resolved for me, if there was an option to use aim assist with no measure, beat, frame label, since all I really want it for is to show a vertical line reference for where the mouse is and to visually show me snap points. 

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The marker gets cluttered up by both the aim assist line, as well as the now time "stop" sign. 

These is not an issue of having a selection. The selection only inverts the color and adds the green top line and flags, which I really like. 

The issue is detailed in my response I made a second ago. It's purely about stacking the aim assist, MB ruler, stop sign, and markers. There is no reason why the layout couldn't be modified so that each of these things is completely unmasked by the others. 

That's my point :)

And none of it is a deal breaker. I've been using since Sonar 1.0. I just feel like Bandlab is listening to bugs and features now, so I'd submit a couple. :)

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I agree that there’s a lot of stuff in not much space. Also that the stop head is outsized.

Edited by Jon L. Jacobi

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@Josh Wolfer 

Problem is, these are all new features just added within the past few months. I highly doubt they will change these.

Been using Cakewalk since Pro Audio days (1998) So im almost as DOS as you are xD. I was simply trying to throw out some work arounds. Sometimes I can come off as ignorant though. My apology's if I did in my first comment.

FWIW, you have my ear for every feature you listed above (all 3). I hope they will (at minimum), Make some sort of... "Let me turn this thing off" in Track view menu.

Personally I think the timeline was small it enough as it was, but now its become very difficult to navigate with these new features. Im set in my ways and get cranky when my workflow is changed, but its also important to note.. I haven't given these features a fair chance yet. But that Aim Assist # tag is just like a curtain blocking the view.

 

Cheers from Boston, MA,

Charlie

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With regards to markers, I kind of like ProTools' solution of a separate marker "section" (or "track" maybe, but it doesn't look like a track really).

It makes markers very easy to distinguish, albeit by sacrificing some vertical space:

image.png.4a99db5d153eaf515864b66f03e0c6e3.png

Image from recordingrevolution.com:
https://www.recordingrevolution.com/optimize-pro-tools-marker-colors/

Something for Cakewalk to be inspired by, perhaps? :)

 

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Those are common things that most Pro DAWs have.

Even GarageBand has this stuff.

This was showing up in higher end DAWs over a decade ago.  Cubase 5 had this stuff, back in  2000.

Cakewalk (or whatever companies owned them) simply didn't bother to develop a decent implementation of what was already becoming a fairly standardized UI/UX for this (almost all DAWs do it the way Logic Pro X/Pro Tools/Cubase do it, now).

The way Cakewalk does what it can do is more similar to ACID Pro, for example.  But I actually think the UI/UX for this in ACID Pro is superior - because they don't just layer markers all over the ruler, which creates all sorts of problems (and visual clutter).

Not to mention, markers are hilariously hard to edit in Cakewalk (e.g. Deleting a Marker is not, at all, intuitive - only doable from Marker Dock, can't right click to delete.  Placing them is also unintuitive, since they [always?] go where the play head is, not where the mouse activates the context menu.).

They really need to just rework this stuff.

show-record-enable-button.png

S1104_basTracksArea.png

Even still, I am trying my best to stick with it...  But the usability "issues" are starting to accumulate for me.

I actually think the Markers in ACID Pro are better implemented, as they have a small "global marker track."  They should do something more similar to this, because I don't think the other implementation is something they will do any time soon.

The contrast between markers and the background in the default Tungsten theme in Cakewalk is also REALLY bad. 

 

Acid8_02-BD_gauthWq9kxnXRdqD_oe1ckGSbRDS.jpg

Edited by Some Guy
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14 hours ago, Some Guy said:

Not to mention, markers are hilariously hard to edit in Cakewalk (e.g. Deleting a Marker is not, at all, intuitive - only doable from Marker Dock, can't right click to delete.  Placing them is also unintuitive, since they [always?] go where the play head is, not where the mouse activates the context menu.).

Click and hold the left mouse button on the marker and press the Delete key on your PC keyboard to delete the marker. No need for the Marker Dock.

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So one thing that would be really nice, is the ability for markers to actually color the section of the bar, like the protools screenshot above. That would be really nice! I hadn't even thought about that. 

Frankly, the sky box interface doesn't work for me in general. When I bust out console view or piano roll, i ALWAYS just undock it and throw it on a second monitor. but that doesn't bother me as much as these little annoyances around markers. 

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1 hour ago, Josh Wolfer said:

 the protools screenshot above. That would be really nice!

I 2nd that!  I like the colors between the markers.

And if we could choose the colors, that would be even better!

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Im all for Marker enhancements. Love to see some changes, especially an "Export" markers that are linked to tempo/meter key changes. Using a midi track this would be totally doable.

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 6:57 AM, Scott R. Garrigus said:

Click and hold the left mouse button on the marker and press the Delete key on your PC keyboard to delete the marker. No need for the Marker Dock.


This used to work great. unfortunately The latest timeline changes (Selection markers) have made the hit zone a lot smaller and its hard to click on markers on 1st try. 

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Agree.  I've tried dragging markers and it just created another marker instead.  Maybe this is intended.  I'm not sure.  It surely wasn't what I was "expecting."

I also tried using Cakewalk for Loop Arranging, and it create marker for every Loop you drop into the arranger.  Why?

Edited by Some Guy

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21 hours ago, arlen2133 said:

And if we could choose the colors, that would be even better!

How about customizable naming of categories of markers and selectable (on/off) "marker lanes" --structure/parts, flaws, editing notes, section names, priorities, etc.?  Maybe in selectable widths? Choice of marker size?

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5 minutes ago, MusicMan11712 (aka Dr. Steve) said:

How about customizable naming of categories of markers and selectable (on/off) "marker lanes" --structure/parts, flaws, editing notes, section names, priorities, etc.?  Maybe in selectable widths? Choice of marker size?

I like that idea.  By making it (on/off), you don't have to clutter up the layout any more than necessary.

 

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23 minutes ago, Some Guy said:

Agree.  I've tried dragging markers and it just created another marker instead.  Maybe this is intended.  I'm not sure.  It surely wasn't what I was "expecting."

 

It only copies the marker if you're holding control when you drag the marker. 

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14 minutes ago, Josh Wolfer said:

It only copies the marker if you're holding control when you drag the marker. 

It didn't copy.  It moved the original marker, and created a blank/unnamed in the original position.

It probably has something to do with the smart tool, and how tiny the hit boxes are.  I'm not sure.

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