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BandLab Technologies reveals new brand vision for Cakewalk


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2 hours ago, Eusebio Rufian-Zilbermann said:

Another detail is whether the "lifetime updates" refer to the lifetime of the company or the product.

Good point. In fact one of my decision-making factors not to buy into the product called "SONAR Platinum (with Lifetime Updates)" was my concern that all they had to do was retire that product in favor of a different product.  I vaguely recall that I had something like that happen before. (Kind of like, "No, you are not entitled to the new product, because this is a different product.")

Although it might be nice to say my decision was "smart" or that I had ESP, it was more based on learned skepticism of the games corporations play.

That being said, if there is a reward, perk, discount, or something for loyal, long-term paid users of Cakewalk/SONAR and I hope its not just for those for who paid Gibson for SONAR Platinum (with Lifetime Updates) and who got up to five years worth of free updates from Bandlab and the developers after the product was discontinued /reached the end of its life. 

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5 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

I, for one, have enjoyed the FIVE YEARS of "free subscription" to the Cakewalk DAW that Bandlab actually gave us.

I would bet that Meng, if he saw the resentment from the folks who are angry about their $199 spent in 2016 with a company dissolved by Gibson in 2017 that Meng didn't purchase (he merely purchased some of their assets) that he didn't anticipate this kind of reaction and venom directed at him.  Seriously folks, from Meng's perspective,  he just spent 5 years building what he expected was goodwill with this community and never charged us a cent and there are people angry with him about $199 they spent in 2016 with a company dissolved  in 2017 -- a company that Meng didn't buy and an offer that Meng had absolutely nothing to do with. He's only invested money in buying some of the assets of that company from Gibson in 2018 and has never seen a penny of our money-- no revenue for his investment--yet still,  some people folks feel morally justified that he should be giving them free product for life??? Other companies bought assets from that fire sale too. But you likely wouldn't hold them responsible for the business agreements made by the defunct Cakewalk Inc owned by Gibson because they're not using the Cakewalk website, trademarks or any of the software code from the former Cakewalk Inc. 

Bandlab doesn't have a legal or ethical responsibility to take on an offer between Cakewalk Inc/Gibson and its customers. Bandlab didn't buy Cakewalk Inc, just some of their assets. And someone taking their vitriol and directing it at a fellow forum member for merely making those points and misrepresenting a completely unrelated situation between me and a sample developer who didn't provide any customer support for his products for 11 months who made personal, defamatory attacks on his customer (me) when the customer shared that story publicly is not the moral equivalent of this scenario and  it's an insult, not just to me, but to Meng's integrity to make that comparison. People are dumping on a company that has been ethical and has been incredibly generous misdirecting their resentment about their bad experience in 2016 with a different corporation called Cakewalk Inc that was owned by Gibson and was dissolved in 2017. Gibson was responsible for Cakewalk's agreements. They didn't sell that responsibility to Bandlab. Cakewalk inc was not purchased by Bandlab, some of its assets were sold to Bandlab. I get that not everyone understands business and seeing the same brand name, the Cakewalk website,  and software that is primarily just an updated version of Sonar,  results in their confusion,  but they're lashing out at the wrong company.  You made a contract with Cakewalk Inc,  a company owned by Gibson that ceased operations in 2017. Bandlab is not that company. Gibson still exists, so it would make more sense for you to lobby Gibson for a refund or attempt a class action suit against Gibson (although Gibson's 2018 bankruptcy may have limited or ended those obligations; I don't know the answer to that), but Bandlab has no legal or ethical responsibility to give you free product for life. If, by chance, Meng gives a discount to former Sonar registrants,  that would simply be a kind gesture,  not the result of any legal or moral obligation.  I was a Cakewalk customer that used their top of the line versions of Sonar and updated to each new version. I even bought the short lived Project5. But I don't think that Bandlab owes me special pricing merely because they bought the intellectual property rights to the software and trademarks Cakewalk and Sonar. If they named the product something completely different,  I'm guessing at least some of the people who currently feel entitled to free product for a lifetime from Bandlab might be less inclined to feel that way. 

Edited by PavlovsCat
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1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

Could people stop trying to compare the software industry to real life scenarios?

But, but . . . trying to sort out where the comparisons are valid and where they fall apart is more fun than doing sudoku and crossword puzzles.

Also it is not as challenging as matrixed logic puzzles.¬† You know, "There are seven families on the same block living either next to each other or across the street¬†whose last names are colors of the rainbow. Each has a car but only¬†one owns a car¬†that matches the family name.¬† Two have cars that match the name of their neighbors.¬† Three have cars that match the name of a family on the other side of the street. " etc.¬† ūüėú¬†¬†

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35 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

But, but . . . trying to sort out where the comparisons are valid and where they fall apart is more fun than doing sudoku and crossword puzzles.

Also it is not as challenging as matrixed logic puzzles.¬† You know, "There are seven families on the same block living either next to each other or across the street¬†whose last names are colors of the rainbow. Each has a car but only¬†one owns a car¬†that matches the family name.¬† Two have cars that match the name of their neighbors.¬† Three have cars that match the name of a family on the other side of the street. " etc.¬† ūüėú¬†¬†

In regards to the logic puzzle:
Family Name - Car Color
Left Side of the block   
Red - Red
Orange - Red
Yellow - Red

Right Side of the block
Green - Red
Blue - Red
Purple - Red
Indigo - Silver (these guys are jerks and always have been)

 

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54 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

But, but . . . trying to sort out where the comparisons are valid and where they fall apart is more fun than doing sudoku and crossword puzzles.

Also it is not as challenging as matrixed logic puzzles.¬† You know, "There are seven families on the same block living either next to each other or across the street¬†whose last names are colors of the rainbow. Each has a car but only¬†one owns a car¬†that matches the family name.¬† Two have cars that match the name of their neighbors.¬† Three have cars that match the name of a family on the other side of the street. " etc.¬† ūüėú¬†¬†

Becan, the answer is *ALWAYS* becan.

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6 hours ago, Anxiousmofo said:

Pure charm.

ūü§ģ

Hahaha.  Come on, that was lighthearted. Hopefully, we can maintain civility -- and even a sense of humor when discussing this and other topics, whether we agree on something or not. I appreciate civil debate and want to see people candidly share their various perspectives, not just those who share the same views. It's a discussion board and that's what we're here to do. Someone posted that they'd like to see a lawyer weigh in on this topic, and since you stated you are a lawyer -- and I realize you already did weigh in earlier, but they clearly didn't see that post -- I think it would be especially of interest, as you understand this from a legal perspective, as many don't know much about that area as it pertains to this situation and I think that's no small factor in how people see Bandlab's responsibilities in this matter. 

I get the disappointment that you and others feel over the $199 deal from 2016 not working out as one would hope -- and I don't deny your right to have those feelings -- but I think that anger and disappointment is being unfairly misdirected at Bandlab (I don't fault those disappointed in Cakewalk Inc management or Gibson, although I don't think we know enough to know if the managers who made the decision to make that offer suspected that Cakewalk Inc would soon be shut down; although it was common knowledge that Cakewalk and Gibson were not doing well by 2016, as Gibson's financial problems were in the news a lot at that point),  Would you agree or disagree that: 

(1) The resentment and sense of an unfulfilled moral obligation for the $199 lifetime updates deal  is more appropriately directed at the former Cakewalk Inc management or Gibson, and not any of the companies that bought the assets of the dissolved Cakewalk Inc., including Bandlab,  which merely purchased the intellectual property rights for the software and trademarks,  the website domain and some other assets, but didn't actually buy the business. 

(2) If Bandlab merely used some of the code for Sonar and not the trademarks/branding (Cakewalk,  Sonar, etc) or Cakewalk website domain,  and instead used it to create a new DAW with a different name with a GUI that looked very different that you likely would not have the same expectations for Bandlab to fulfill the $199 Sonar lifetime updates deal as you do now.  That is, if Bandlab had merely bought the rights to code and not the brand trademarks and graphics, and instead, say, used that to enhance their existing Bandlab software product, that you and others would likely not feel Bandlab owes you a lifetime of free product as you do now when they're actually using the former Cakewalk website, basically have rebranded the former Sonar software as Cakewalk by Bandlab and are going to release a new DAW and call it Sonar. I think that those are the main factors why there's this left over resentment and confusion for a sale that occurred in 2016 with a company that went out of business in 2017 -- and it's purely connected to the use of those brand names, that software and this website - -these things evoke the bitter memories for you and some others that are more appropriately directed at Cakewalk Inc, the company owned by Gibson -- and perhaps Gibson too, rather than at Bandlab, the completely separate company that merely purchased some of the assets of the former Cakewalk Inc from Gibson. 

Edited by PavlovsCat
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To be honest, I expected that my account might disappear when Cakewalk did. I'm surprised (and happy) that Bandlab has kept it alive. I wasn't so lucky when Time+Space shut shop.

(To be clear, I'm not blaming T+S for their misfortune and have no ill-will against them.)

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1 hour ago, antler said:

To be honest, I expected that my account might disappear when Cakewalk did. I'm surprised (and happy) that Bandlab has kept it alive. I wasn't so lucky when Time+Space shut shop.

(To be clear, I'm not blaming T+S for their misfortune and have no ill-will against them.)

yeah that was really sad - I think I managed to rescue all my stuff I'd bought through T&S when I moved to my new PC and was quite relieved it was all registered at the software companies concerned. Though I'll never be sure......

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I honestly have no idea of the financial details concerning The New SONAR in regards to whether the company &  people behind it need to raise large sums of money or not .

Having said that and not having all or any of the facts ūü§£ I would be pleased if the powers that be offered loyal users a buy in cost wise along the lines of Reaper . A loyal Cakewalk user can pay a reasonable cost effective¬† manageable upfront fee .¬† Then they will be licensed¬† for a decent number of updates ...

I also like what Acoustica has done for Mixcraft DAW users . I decided to give Mixcraft a whirl when  Acoustica offered SONAR users a reduced price to cross grade . The cross grade cost was much less than what it would have cost me as a new user . I got in on Mixcraft 7 Pro and I'm currently on Mixcraft 10 Pro .

IIRC my upgraded fee's were $39 dollars each upgrade to go from 7 to 8 , 8 to 9 and 9 to 10 ....

One thing is for sure , I'm not paying $150 or $200 bills plus a year any more for or to  any DAW  company that thinks they can get me for it .

NO KEN DO

Kenny

 

 

Edited by kennywtelejazz
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I think if they avoided reusing the name Sonar there’d be no kurfuffle. I think using the name again was a misstep that created unnecessary controversy. 
 

I wish them luck and success. 
 

ps I’m a lifetime Sonar guy but I moved on when all that went down originally.  I still use Sonar to open old projects but not to create new ones. I don’t care if they honor the lifetime license or not. 

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IBTL?
Bandlab has been very patient with content of this thread
- 15% excitement, 10% joy, 15% anger, 15% whine, 7% confusion, 9% ice, 27% nonsense & filler. 
but as soon as the content hits 20% anger, 20% whine or 30% nonsense they'll probably lock the thread.

Note: the %s are an off the cuff guestamate based off of reading content. No statistical or scientific process was used.
Those disagreeing with my figures are free to disagree and post comments on my methods, my family's genetics, or complain bitterly - all of which I reserve the right to either ignore or laugh at.
*Apologies if this comes off rude, my humor can be a bit edgy at times - I'm going to take a break, grab a sandwich & coffee.

Edited by TheSteven
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2 hours ago, TheSteven said:

IBTL?
Bandlab has been very patient with content of this thread

may I lock this now?

 

 

...sneaks back in

...one laughy face noted

 

please let this thread die

 

---ok twice as happy

shhhh...go to sleep

 

third time is the charm

nite nite

until next time 

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8 minutes ago, kennywtelejazz said:

I'm currently on Mixcraft 10 Pro

What is the authorization method, Kenny? For instance, I like what Mixbus does - you just put a text file, containing the registry code, somewhere on the disk - and voila! Cubase OTOH requires re-authorizing once a year, that's bad... still twice better than Cakewalk¬†ūüėĄ

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39 minutes ago, kennywtelejazz said:

 

I'm currently on Mixcraft 10 Pro .

 

 

25 minutes ago, chris.r said:

What is the authorization method, Kenny? For instance, I like what Mixbus does - you just put a text file, containing the registry code, somewhere on the disk - and voila! Cubase OTOH requires re-authorizing once a year, that's bad... still twice better than Cakewalk¬†ūüėĄ

Yes I also use Mixbus (I'm  a few versions behind currently ) . I like what Mixbus does pretty much all across the board including the authorization process   .

Regarding Mixcraft 10 , IIRC , all I did was log in to Acoustica  to get Mixcraft 10 Pro at my upgrade price ( $39 ) Having downloaded the program , when it first started installing I remember I had to give it my e mail ...I don't recall if I had any challenge responses ....

I'm almost certain all I had to give it was my e mail and possibly my Acoustica acct  password .I honestly don't remember since I was so amped up on getting my upgrade within hours of the Version 10 release .

Overall the whole upgrade and authorization  process was painless and smooth .

 

Kenny

Edited by kennywtelejazz
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