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Nowdayz for those price you have a fully featured DAW !!!! PA got fried on the FB group .....

I had the exact discussion with Steven and Fab about the Slate thing , as you may have pointed out , it's been a while i didn't made Slate video 

 

1) because i don 't use the VMR until it's out of the rack

2) because nothing exiting since a while (expt the FG stress witch i knew gonna get covered by evey youtuber lol)

Anyway , my discussion started with the nonsense of a brand putting a pression on itself by having to release a serious amount of new plugin on a constant basis witch lead systematically to lose of quality ... period , i know how miticulous fabrice is and the time spent on details ...

Then i explained him that EU is not USA , and leasing / sub is not AT ALL in our culture , specially in France where people buy their house more than any country ...people want to own their stuff ... they hate leasing /sub as its seen as a servitude

Long story short :  every thing i said was useless ... 

I will happily says this to Dirk , but i don't even try no more with brands ... they're conviced that they have it all ...and forgot that last time , they had it all also (in their mind) 

Only good thing is that resell market gonna get up for a small time ...

I don't know how brands are conviced that doing the best for them , will generate the same results as doing the best for costumers , witch is basically the only source of income and the one cursor you MUST have in mind as a TOP priority ....

 

I'm not dissing or minimising the quality or skill of any brand here , i'm pointing out that those guyz use an economic model without knowing the consequences , a model that is smashing masses in the world taking from them the proporty and feeling of being straight with no need to get something else (yep the art of selling you stuff you don't need ) ...this is a pattern that we see more and more in the plugin word ...but musicians and artitics ARE def NOT like the regular cat ...

 

I

Edited by Zo
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On the plus side I did get an upgrade to Dynamic Spectrum Mapper V3 for about £23 with my voucher.

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3 minutes ago, rasure said:

On the plus side I did get an upgrade to Dynamic Spectrum Mapper V3 for about £23 with my voucher.

Buy 2 and resell it lol

Edited by Zo
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27 minutes ago, rasure said:

On the plus side I did get an upgrade to Dynamic Spectrum Mapper V3 for about £23 with my voucher.

I have another :) I kept some money to grab great new plugs with promised very affordable prices and outstanding personal offers  :)

So now when I know what are the offers I can spend those money for plugins from competitors :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Piotr said:

I have another :) I kept some money to grab great new plugs with promised very affordable prices and outstanding personal offers  :)

So now when I know what are the offers I can spend those money for plugins from competitors :)

 

even better if you don't buy anything else , at the end we gain money ....no wonder UA raised prices with confidence ...

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The bugs in DSM V2 are now resolved in V3?

Edited by muzdol

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26 minutes ago, rasure said:

On the plus side I did get an upgrade to Dynamic Spectrum Mapper V3 for about £23 with my voucher.

As my voucher doubled this month I could get this upgrade for free 🙂. A small consolation because, between this and the "New PA", I guess I'll have to thank Dirk 'cause I'll probably save some money in the next months (by NOT buying as many PA plugs as before, I mean).

Also I'll save the $29 I'd otherwise pay for the pick pack I was planning to get 'cause I can bear rent-to-own monthly payments but I don't want no stinking software subscription. Thanks a lot.

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I just don`t like subscriptions with computer software. I like to buy and know that I can keep using it forever!  I don`t really like online activation either, but I do understand from the developers point of view with so much piracy going on.

I used to hate iLok at one point, but since having one for a few months now, its actually very good, it fits in the back of my PC not causing any issue and I know if my PC goes down I don`t have to worry about my licenses.  I actually wish all software developers at least had the option of iLok licensing, would save a lot of hassle, for me anyway in case of a reinstall, sorry ranting now!

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3 minutes ago, rasure said:

I just don`t like subscriptions with computer software. I like to buy and know that I can keep using it forever! 

Unfortunately, the problem is even you bought something for ever it could stop to work at some point because of authorization system or abandoning by developer or even poor support :(

You also often need to pay for upgrades as without active support plugin could stop after some OS update (you can be forced to OS update because of some reason).

So even if software is not a material thing still you can lose it. :(

This is bright side of subscription. You do not invest whole price and have all updates granted. Also if you started to like other things you just could change provider. Similar like for instance HBO for Netflix for some months and then back etc...

But it is always kind of calculation. Do I really need all plugins from provider?

They of course in their marketing assume yes. So they will prove how much you can 'save'. In some cases it can be truth. In my case Slate subscription is such a case. I would never afford to but them but love them all, :)

But of course from user point of view calculations are not so bright if he would consider more subscriptions...

3 minutes ago, rasure said:

 

I don`t really like online activation either, but I do understand from the developers point of view with so much piracy going on.

Yup, I understand the reality as well, but some authorization systems can be painful. I lost few plugs I got because of it. It was needed to send email after almost every  bigger OS update and get generated code related to machine and OS.

3 minutes ago, rasure said:

I used to hate iLok at one point, but since having one for a few months now, its actually very good, it fits in the back of my PC not causing any issue and I know if my PC goes down I don`t have to worry about my licenses.  I actually wish all software developers at least had the option of iLok licensing, would save a lot of hassle, for me anyway in case of a reinstall, sorry ranting now!

I agree. Unification of this is much better than fighting against hundreds different systems.

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Nice thing about PA, all your invoices are online and their products can't be bought at stores.  So it wasn't hard for me to figure out what I've been spending there.  Since 2015, I've averaged spending $108/year with them.  But that's only because last month I bought DearVR Pro.  You factor that out and my yearly average drops to about $73.

I was thinking about getting the Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor, but didn't want to try the trial until they released the pricing.  I installed the trial this morning.  It's nice but not $199 nice.  I might have picked it up at $99 (after vouchers) but at $150 (I have a $50 voucher this month, first time it's been that high) it just isn't worth it to me.  Oh well, I guess I'm going to have to decide between Broadway Lites and Swing/Swing More.

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No subscriptions for me, I only use a handful of their plugins anymore & not in every project so it for me it would be like throwing money down the drain once a year. Their new releases are good but nothing I don't already have covered.

@rasure Same here, I'll take iLok over a plugin subscription any day.

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1 hour ago, rasure said:

... I used to hate iLok at one point, but since having one for a few months now, its actually very good, it fits in the back of my PC not causing any issue and I know if my PC goes down I don`t have to worry about my licenses. ...

Playing devil's advocate - if my PC goes down, I can restore a backup and retrieve my Melda licenses (or Boz Digital) from the file I downloaded - or download them again from my account online. No need to PAY a 3rd party company for the privilege of using a license that I bought - even Waves gives you the option of using your own USB stick.   (Even Melda's rent-own subscription is customer oriented and doesn't feel like a money grab.)  Subscriptions are for the benefit of the company - it fills the need for a recurring revenue stream.  (rant over.) 

Edited by mibby
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23 minutes ago, mibby said:

Playing devil's advocate - if my PC goes down, I can restore a backup and retrieve my Melda licenses (or Boz Digital) from the file I downloaded - or download them again from my account online.

Yup, I like Melda's approach as well.

23 minutes ago, mibby said:

No need to PAY a 3rd party company for the privilege of using a license that I bought - even Waves gives you the option of using your own USB stick.   (Even Melda's rent-own subscription is customer oriented and doesn't feel like a money grab.) 

To be honest possibility to keep it on own USB stick against ilok dongle isn't very beneficial for me :) Still something that can be missed :)

But maybe I am saying it because never get any issues with ilok dongle (3rd year of using) on any of my OSes.

23 minutes ago, mibby said:

Subscriptions are for the benefit of the company - it fills the need for a recurring revenue stream.  (rant over.) 

In broader context you are right but I always consider things from my own perspective as we all have little different needs (or maybe should I say my wallet perspective is quite strong ;) 

It always depends on what we are doing, how often and if it is job (so plugin can 'earn' money) or hobby.

What attracted me to it (between other reasons) was I could only subscribe just 1 month, and during it have full versions of all plugs, do what I need and just stop for few months.

Of course I am far from trying to convince anybody to subscriptions. We all have our own paths for work, feel secure etc. 

Just saying  in some cases it is benefit for subscriber. Even waiting for all possible Slate sales to buy all I want is out of my range. Yes, after many years when my money spent equal total sum I still have nothing but I have all at once when started, with all updates, new plugs. I can use them

It could be kind of mindset like to own a car or just rent it etc.

And true, Zo is right about European people. :) We like own. Home. Cars. Plugins. But I live in not big country, not often travel abroad so to be honest I like very much idea not to have own car but just call it on demand. Preferably autonomous one ;)

But I am still conservative about home I would never feel save and secure if I had not have my own :) So I believe I understand both sides. 

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6 hours ago, Zo said:

Then i explained him that EU is not USA , and leasing / sub is not AT ALL in our culture , specially in France where people buy their house more than any country ...people want to own their stuff ... they hate leasing /sub as its seen as a servitude

I must admit I personally prefer to own rather than pay a subscription, however, if I was running my studio as a business I would definitely prefer a subscription, as it's tax deductible, whereas software owned by a business is seen as an company asset - whether a tangible or intangible asset depends of the software and its use.

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2 hours ago, Piotr said:

What attracted me to it (between other reasons) was I could only subscribe just 1 month, and during it have full versions of all plugs, do what I need and just stop for few months. 

Valid point.

 

15 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

 if I was running my studio as a business I would definitely prefer a subscription, as it's tax deductible, whereas software owned by a business is seen as an company asset

Great point!

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32 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

I must admit I personally prefer to own rather than pay a subscription, however, if I was running my studio as a business I would definitely prefer a subscription, as it's tax deductible, whereas software owned by a business is seen as an company asset - whether a tangible or intangible asset depends of the software and its use.

I was speaking with my wife about this ..the thing is that sometime (specially as entrepreneur) we get money sometime we're shortv , i alwayz prefer to buy stuff when i got full money ....and then when money is low , i have zero lost , just being carefull about daily spend ...

 

I would not be able to buy several stuff I OWN now nowdayz with all stuff i have to handle in new house .... she also like to have monthly's while i hate that (first time in my life this year) because you're ALWAYZ under pressure , while i prefer to have money  stoked for taxes and all insurances and then each month i have what i "really have " ...

 

It's just a question of logic for me ... anyway we're talking stuff WE HAVE TO PAY ...but for plugins ? na !!/....

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6 hours ago, rasure said:

I just don`t like subscriptions with computer software. I like to buy and know that I can keep using it forever!  I don`t really like online activation either, but I do understand from the developers point of view with so much piracy going on.

I used to hate iLok at one point, but since having one for a few months now, its actually very good, it fits in the back of my PC not causing any issue and I know if my PC goes down I don`t have to worry about my licenses.  I actually wish all software developers at least had the option of iLok licensing, would save a lot of hassle, for me anyway in case of a reinstall, sorry ranting now!

It's not really fair to compare iLok with a subscription scheme.

I personally hate both. It's true that if your PC goes down or you want to use another one, you can relocate the iLok; if your iLok goes down, that's when you have to buy all of your software/plugins again. Not only that, you end up installing a few background services to use an iLok: if you're lucky they play nicely, and they probably do play nicely in most cases. I myself am perfectly happy that not every developer uses iLok.

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2 minutes ago, antler said:

It's not really fair to compare iLok with a subscription scheme.

I personally hate both. It's true that if your PC goes down or you want to use another one, you can relocate the iLok; if your iLok goes down, that's when you have to buy all of your software/plugins again. Not only that, you end up installing a few background services to use an iLok: if you're lucky they play nicely, and they probably do play nicely in most cases. I myself am perfectly happy that not every developer uses iLok.

iLok does this: https://www.ilok.com/#!zdt-coverage

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8 minutes ago, antler said:

It's not really fair to compare iLok with a subscription scheme.

I personally hate both. It's true that if your PC goes down or you want to use another one, you can relocate the iLok; if your iLok goes down, that's when you have to buy all of your software/plugins again. Not only that, you end up installing a few background services to use an iLok: if you're lucky they play nicely, and they probably do play nicely in most cases. I myself am perfectly happy that not every developer uses iLok.

You do not have to buy all your plugins again. Without ZDT, you file an RMA and email the companies for replacement licenses. It took a day or two to get replacements for everything when I lost an iLok.

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12 minutes ago, antler said:

It's not really fair to compare iLok with a subscription scheme.

I personally hate both. It's true that if your PC goes down or you want to use another one, you can relocate the iLok; if your iLok goes down, that's when you have to buy all of your software/plugins again. Not only that, you end up installing a few background services to use an iLok: if you're lucky they play nicely, and they probably do play nicely in most cases. I myself am perfectly happy that not every developer uses iLok.

For $30 bucks/year you can buy an insurance for all your licenses in a specific iLok device (the Zero Down Time or ZDT). That's $2.50/month and IMO is pretty reasonable, specially if you have thousands of $ in software licenses on the device.

I also like iLok and would like to have this option for every single software I ever  bought. It'd save me a lot of headaches (f.i I already lost one Arturia's Collection license the last time my system HD went south).

Better than that would be serial numbers that you can type as many times as you want/need but, unfortunately, this kind of SW registration belongs to the past.

Edited by Sergio

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