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Zo

New Laptop or not ?

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Posted (edited)

Hi guyz .

Happy owner of a dell xps 15 that is serving me wonderfully since the beginning and still holding his own in 2022 , this last weeks of official irrational "clown world"enterance make me feel that i might grab a laptop now better than later , we never know what gonna happen with China .

Do i need it now : nope at all

Pure precaution .... what's you're thougth on this (now or wait)

Now for the more geeky ones .... another aspect of my concern is the new intel 12 gen's , it's a superb cpu capable of surpassing anything around with 14 cores (some being beefy cores , some more power efficient) ... and the fact that it balance that makes me wonder :

1) Is windows gonna do it well

2) Are daws gonna handle those well  

So my usual "prudence" told me , "zo skipp the better for the already good" 

Now list narrow drastically and to my surprise  a lot of AMD stuff in witch are good , but seems to get hotter than Intel (any feedback here on real users would be really appreciated my friends)

Another concern is the screen size and resolution hence the list , the problem being i wonder if the  QHD + reso (in 16/9 or 16/10) isn't too much for a laptop , my dell is 3k and i'm since day one never using it , of course there's windows scalling but it doesn't works on plugins so no go until all plugins are resizable . My eyes aren't young anymore so any feedback on those QHD + reso would be appreciated (i have this resolution 1440p in 27 " witch is perfect )

Notice that the latptop gonna be used mainly when i go produce on the go (mostly far from humain) lol  no heavy mixing , just post prod fast ruff mixing (like i do on my videos to print the artistic direction closer to the time of creation)

another concern is ports but my choices are at least prodividing 3 usb each time (the dell xps losing on usb c for power ...that sucks)

Price is a concern , i stopped buying 3 grands laptops since i change those more freq than desktop exeption done with the xps that is here since April 2014 and still gives me silent heavy processing power (8 sec at wprime on 8 cores witch is exellent today still)

Another concern is this Windows 11 witch i don't want , is it possible to roll back (from an installed windows 11 not an updated to 11 windows 10 ) 

The only one that has windows 10 pro is the Thinkbook 16 P witch is my actuall number 1 choice but that resolution is making me double think while it was on the spec i wanted ..

NOTICE i have an additionall 250 Euros to add a second 2 TO ssd 

AMD system don't have thunderbolt and are only PCIE 3 not 4 

 

1) Lenovo Legion 5 Pro (AMD) (AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H , 16.0" WQXGA (2560 x 1600) ,32 Go ,1 To SSD NVIDIA GeForce® RTX™ 3070 )   1900 Euros with 3years on site waranty (instead of 2500)

lenovo-laptop-gaming-legion-5-pro-16in-a

https://www.lenovo.com/fr/fr/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-5-series/Legion-5-Pro-16ACH6H/p/WMD00000468

2) Dell XPS 17" (intel I7 11800H , RTX 3050 , 16 gb of ram , 512 ssd , FHD+ screen (1920x1200) 500 nits

xs9710t_cnb_00055lf110_gy.psd?fmt=png-al

 

https://www.dell.com/fr-fr/shop/ordinateurs-portables-dell/xps-17-9710/spd/xps-17-9710-laptop/cn97102sc11

 

3) Lenovo Legion 7 Slim (AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H ,Windows 11 (damm !!),15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) 300 nits , 16 gb of ram (8 soldered) ,512 go SSD ,  GeForce® RTX™ 3060 (71 Wh battery) 

1499 Euros with 3 y on site waranty

lenovo-laptop-gaming-legion-slim-7-15in-

 

 

https://www.lenovo.com/fr/fr/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-7-series/Legion-S7-15ACH6/p/88GMY701595 

 

4) Lenovo Thinkbook 16 Pgen 2 (it's basically like the Legion slim with a 16 screen QHD+ and better heat management (wattage is less on gpu and power scheme more professionally tuned , not pushed crazy like the legion = less noise)

AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H / (16") 2,5K (2 560 x 1 600) IPS, 400 nits , 16 go of ram , RTX 3060, 1TB SSD

1550 Euros with onsite 3 year warranty 

 

?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8MTk5NzI1fGltYWd?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8NzYyODN8aW1hZ2U

 

 

https://www.lenovo.com/fr/fr/laptops/thinkbook/thinkbook-series/ThinkBook-16p-G2-ACH/p/XXTBXPEA600

 

5) HP Omen 16  AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H / SSD 1 TB ,  QHD (2560 x 1440) 300 nits , 16 Gb of ram , AMD Radeon™ RX 6600M 

Price 1384 euros  with regular 3 years waranty (, i missed a crazy deal to get a 120 euros back) 

c07986381_1750x1285.jpgc07589126_1750x1285.jpg

 

https://www.hp.com/fr-fr/shop/product.aspx?id=492Y8EA&opt=ABF&sel=NTB&p=c-offre-gaming

 

I count on you guyz for this ..... do i buy now or wait .... if i buy now , witch one and why ;)

Game on !!

Ports : Legion 5 pro

Screen : XPS 17 (only people that never saw an xps screen can't understand lol)

Bang for the buck : HP  and Legion slim / Thinkbook

Most overwall balanced spec : Thinkbook : power , price , design and specs  (screen is 1600 p !!! ouch or not ouch)

HP build quality isn't on par with others imho , the best quality being xps , legion slim / thinkbook , legion pro / hp 

Thinkboo has windows 10 pro 

Edited by Zo

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Posted (edited)

 

Edited by Zo

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I've always bought HP until this year I switched to Dell XPS. I wouldn't go back to HP. There is something about the way they are set up. Glitchy. I got my son a new top of the range HP for Christmas and it's good, but I think my Dell is better.

Steer clear of Lenovo. I know they are the biggest laptop manufacturers in the world, and bang for buck the most economic. I just don't trust them  for security. Lenovo is part state owned. They have been caught out preinstalling hackware in the past. We are entering a cyber cold war. Just saying.

Is there anywhere you could go to try out the feel and look if the computer? On paper they always look wonderful, but when I go to the shops and check they out, Lenovo screens underimpress, HP keyboards feel plasticy etc.. seeing them in the flesh helps. 

Have you considered Asus?

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I usually step back and wait on a new model of anything to see how the real world experience has been with it, so if I wasn't in a hurry to buy anything I would wait for the critical trusted reviews of the product. Another potential advantage to this is,  since the pack is always going after the newest products companies will be trying to offload older stock at a discount. I don't think a one year old computer with similar specs is going to hurt me in any way compared to me buying a new one.

If you have money you don't mind spending and you don't mind taking a chance on a new model then go for it, just be prepared for the potential of issues no one knew about until later.

The other question I always ask is what are my requirements as compared to what a computer will do ? I want to nudge in the direction of being over equipped instead of potentially under equipped. Too much overkill though and I'm buying capability that's wasted. What are your goals and has anyone else attempted those goals on the same computer build?

I bought an HP Omen a few years ago and I couldn't be happier. My needs might be different than yours. One thing I noted at that time was when shopping for Omens, was lots of computers in that same Omen line were using marketing tactics trying to make the laptop look like a serious gaming laptop when really they were not. For instance, There were Omens running i5 chips and 8gb of Ram. I don't think a computer called a gaming laptop should have anything less that a feisty i7 or similar chip and at least 16gb of memory. If you didn't look at the fine print you might mistake a low end laptop for a higher end one. To me it looked like they were getting people to the table using the Omen name and then offering deeper discounts on what I'll call the baby Omens. The customer then asks, " Would this computer do the job?, I mean it's an Omen." If "gaming laptop" were not in the sale lit, these buyers would have never given that spec a second look.

Manufacturers demos are usually using their fastest chip on the best example of their machine. When you go looking for one these machines might only be 10% of their inventory.

Another thing many high performance laptops have started to leave out on a regular basis is dual onboard drives Instead they can trim costs by making YOU buy a second drive, yet for someone who is looking for portability this works against it. They were still sneaking platter drives into laptops, especially those budget 'gamer' laptops. Not sure if they still are. Mine has a platter as secondary drive onboard and I was ok with that for a secondary on a laptop.

I agree cyber war is where it's going to the next level. This is more serious than obtaining a new computer since we all have our money in the cloud somewhere. Someone said the new crude oil will be in semi conductors. I tend to agree with that, HOWEVER as long as companies who make products have customers with money to spend on them there will be supply, demand and hopefully competition. I don't think we are going to see a scarcity of laptops in the long term. Sure they will be more expensive like everything else.

 

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Posted (edited)

I totally agree with @Tim Smith regarding marketing tactics. I almost bought an HP based on the specs until I read deeper for similar reasons.

Be really careful when you read the CPU clock speed as listed. Laptop companies are tending to list CPU burst speeds only and not the base speeds. As you probably already know, for audio production, the base speeds it more important than the burst speed. I've seen laptops listed as 3Ghz, only to learn that the base speed was under 2Ghz. Always read up on the cpu manufacturer's website on the base speed of whatever CPU is listed. 

Also, I really don't understand why you want to get a laptop with windows 10? Any new laptop running Windows 11 out the box has been designed and set up to work best with Windows 11. If you buy a Windows 10 machine and then upgrade, you run the risk of incomparability. This is especially important for the new CPU security feature in Windows 11. If you get a laptop running security compromised drivers, you won't be able to run that feature.

 

Edited by Philip G Hunt
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Posted (edited)

Thks Guyz for the feedback ...small infos for you to know my style 

owned 

Sony Vaio VGN BX 97 (best dpc latency i seen on any comp : 8 us , yep you read it right )

Macbook pro 17 

HP 8710 w

HP 8530W

HP 8560 W

Dell XPS 15 

Testeed every brands and line (yes also asus witch is better now) (alienware , asus , 

The Zbook have no 16 , checked the studio and price perf is not that great ....i also remeber that hp usually aren't that quiet (but thermals are just exellent)

What's killing me with the xps 17 is ports (3 usb c) so it's dongle and new cables (no big deal but if i can skip it) and a video card that isn't that crazy (i do my editing time to time on laptops for my channel)

Thinkpad X1 extreme was the plan , i should have bougth it when i wanted 2 years ago , i had great prices , nowdyaz prices are crazy ....

By the way isn't Lenovo owned by chinese ?  if so i'm way more confident that us brands lol (any serious computer guy knows that) , glad to see people are concerned about that .... alittle late but ....

The asus that was one the list is the Zeyphirus S17  but one thing that is killing with asus is the power cable in the midlle on the left or right side ....i usually have my Forte csoundcard on left , mous e on right  and machine or keyboard in front ....

I usually stay away from non pro latpops but my son HP gaming pavillon made me look at the omen , they really improved quality (bouth and Envy back then for wifey and it was at that time top quality , all aluminium)

As for windows 11 , 3 reasons ...

Tested it , simply slower .... even Son noticed ....

Not all stuff i have are suporting Windows 11 (by the way anybody tried Camel Audio Alchemy on it ?) 

to be on pair with other system that are still Win 8.1 and gonna be win10 asap ...

Edited by Zo
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Zo said:

As for windows 11 , 3 reasons ...

Tested it , simply slower .... even Son noticed ....

Not all stuff i have are suporting Windows 11 (by the way anybody tried Camel Audio Alchemy on it ?) 

to be on pair with other system that are still Win 8.1 and gonna be win10 asap ...

I understand your reasons for wanting to stick with older OSs, but the hard and fast truth is windows 11 is here to stay. New software and hardware is going to be made with Windows 11 in mind.  Buying a system to work with older programs will mean you lose out on newer (safer) updated OSs.

As Leonardo DiCaprio said 'it's the way of the future.'

I'm running W11 and so far haven't found any conflicts with the software I 'actually' use. I don't really know if some older plugins don't work because I've been weaning myself off them.  The only plugins I've had issues with were mixbus, but I don't think that is a fault of compatibility with Windows 11.  And i disagree that it's slower. It's just a case of tweaking it to suit your purposes.

 

Talking of latency. The best latency I ever got was from a 1999 laptop running duo core CPU 4GB ram 60GB memory. Why? Because it used FireWire. I got zero latency with an Edirol Fa-101. Ever since FireWire was killed off, I'm yet to see anything that comes close.  USB 3 was a flop for sound cards, thunderbolt is too expensive (and Apple-y), Usb-C...?

I am about to delve into Usb-C. I'm thinking of getting a Presonus. Hopefully it can match the Fa-101.

Edited by Philip G Hunt

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FWIW, I just picked up a Dell Inspiron 16 Plus, 16GB, 512GB SSD for under $1000 from their outlet store a couple weeks ago. It's immaculate, and you would not know it's not "A" stock. The chassis is all-aluminum and is a step up from previous generation Inspirons - comparable to XPS build quality, I think. My main DAW is an XPS8900 that was also a refurb and has worked flawlessly for 7 years with just the case fan replaced.  Both are pretty quiet and stream smoothly at low latency with low and stable DPC latency, even with Wi-Fi left active though I do disable Bluetooth. The notebook is Win11, but I'm okay with moving on and have had no issues with it so far. IPS 3K 16:10 display is non-touch but has accurate color for photo editing and looks fantastic. It has a slot for a second SSD, and I will probably add one soon. My last desktop DAW was also a Dell and served me well for 7 years before the XPS. A lot of people seem be down on off-the-shelf machines for DAW use and Dell, especially, but I have had great luck with them.

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7 hours ago, Philip G Hunt said:

I understand your reasons for wanting to stick with older OSs, but the hard and fast truth is windows 11 is here to stay. New software and hardware is going to be made with Windows 11 in mind.  Buying a system to work with older programs will mean you lose out on newer (safer) updated OSs.

As Leonardo DiCaprio said 'it's the way of the future.'

I'm running W11 and so far haven't found any conflicts with the software I 'actually' use. I don't really know if some older plugins don't work because I've been weaning myself off them.  The only plugins I've had issues with were mixbus, but I don't think that is a fault of compatibility with Windows 11.  And i disagree that it's slower. It's just a case of tweaking it to suit your purposes.

 

Talking of latency. The best latency I ever got was from a 1999 laptop running duo core CPU 4GB ram 60GB memory. Why? Because it used FireWire. I got zero latency with an Edirol Fa-101. Ever since FireWire was killed off, I'm yet to see anything that comes close.  USB 3 was a flop for sound cards, thunderbolt is too expensive (and Apple-y), Usb-C...?

I am about to delve into Usb-C. I'm thinking of getting a Presonus. Hopefully it can match the Fa-101.

Philip i'm not talking about audio latency but system latency witch of course impact audio latency ...

I'm not at all agaianst 11 , but i just think it's too soon , i'll give it a year or so to be more solid that's all ;)

Since windows 10 seems according to people around solid .

As for the future , i 'll skip Leornardo to study the past , and the past teached me to never rush on new os ;) 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, David Baay said:

FWIW, I just picked up a Dell Inspiron 16 Plus, 16GB, 512GB SSD for under $1000 from their outlet store a couple weeks ago. It's immaculate, and you would not know it's not "A" stock. The chassis is all-aluminum and is a step up from previous generation Inspirons - comparable to XPS build quality, I think. My main DAW is an XPS8900 that was also a refurb and has worked flawlessly for 7 years with just the case fan replaced.  Both are pretty quiet and stream smoothly at low latency with low and stable DPC latency, even with Wi-Fi left active though I do disable Bluetooth. The notebook is Win11, but I'm okay with moving on and have had no issues with it so far. IPS 3K 16:10 display is non-touch but has accurate color for photo editing and looks fantastic. It has a slot for a second SSD, and I will probably add one soon. My last desktop DAW was also a Dell and served me well for 7 years before the XPS. A lot of people seem be down on off-the-shelf machines for DAW use and Dell, especially, but I have had great luck with them.

Thks for the feedback , yep the inspiron was an option , i don't recall why i skipped (maybe the video card 3050 ) we don't have same options here in France ..

can you tell me what are the ratio compatible lower resolution after the 3 K in your comp ?

Are you working on native resoltuiion or are you applying windows scaling ?

Edited by Zo

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Just now, craigb said:

What are the other DJ's using? 🤔

 

(😜)

Touché !!! lol 

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I can't recommend Jim Rosebury at StudioCat.com highly enough.  He builds three models that you can customize.  Maybe a bit pricey but the support is PRICELESS

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1 hour ago, Zo said:

i don't recall why i skipped (maybe the video card 3050 ) we don't have same options here in France ..

can you tell me what are the ratio compatible lower resolution after the 3 K in your comp ?

I actually looked for a model with Nvidia graphics because I'll be running RC flight simulator software, but also because its been my experience that Cakewalk does not tend to have any issues with Nvidia drivers (with one exception involving a particular VST3's UI that was resolved relatively quickly with an update by Nvidia).

Default scaling was 200%. I tried initially backing it off to 160%, but my eyes couldn't keep up. I'm now at 180%, and everything seems fine. I have not noticed any artifacts or other display weirdness, but obviously I have not been working with it for very long.  At 200% the top of the Track Inspector in CbB was cut off which was the main reason for wanting to scale down a bit, and, of course just to have maximum room for track headers or PRV plus Tempo View, etc.

I've never actually done a lot of audio work on a laptop, and don't expect to now. Other than just having CW as a reference when browsing and posting here and using it as a 'sandbox' for getting familiar with new software/plugins and trying out demos/freeware, the main thing I do on it is editing MIDI which doesn't require great audio quality and can be done while watching news or sports with half an eye on the TV or while having morning coffee and donuts in the recliner.  ;^)

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1 minute ago, David Baay said:

I actually looked for a model with Nvidia graphics because I'll be running RC flight simulator software, but also because its been my experience that Cakewalk does not tend to have any issues with Nvidia drivers (with one exception involving a particular VST3's UI that was resolved relatively quickly with an update by Nvidia).

Default scaling was 200%. I tried initially backing it off to 160%, but my eyes couldn't keep up. I'm now at 180%, and everything seems fine. I have not noticed any artifacts or other display weirdness, but obviously I have not been working with it for very long.  At 200% the top of the Track Inspector in CbB was cut off which was the main reason for wanting to scale down a bit, and, of course just to have maximum room for track headers or PRV plus Tempo View, etc.

I've never actually done a lot of audio work on a laptop, and don't expect to now. Other than just having CW as a reference when browsing and posting here and using it as a 'sandbox' for getting familiar with new software/plugins and trying out demos/freeware, the main thing I do on it is editing MIDI which doesn't require great audio quality and can be done while watching news or sports with half an eye on the TV or while having morning coffee and donuts in the recliner.  ;^)

Makes sens , scaling doesn't apply on some plugins and so it's super tiny , hence my hesitation bewtenn 2 k and Full hd ...

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Went for the Thinkbook for test , been in a shop , the omen is nothing better than my son pavillon gaming  quakity wise ....so i skipped it  ...

Skipped the Legion Slim 7 becuase the thinkbook has sevreal areas that in case of serious job needed during lokdown or some ares superior :

Screen : 2 K versus HD

Cam : FHD versus 720 p

MAterial / color : will certainly edge better imho ...

I was hesistaing with the legion (witch is still a plan B in case i don't have a solid latency) because the legion have a great reselle value versus thinkbook ....

Still my xps working like a charm witch is what bothers me ....

Now need to buy new Tires for car since it's going up also in may (+ 10 to 15 % i heard from dunlop , michelin , continental ...Ect ) 

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On 4/12/2022 at 7:20 AM, Philip G Hunt said:

I've always bought HP until this year I switched to Dell XPS. I wouldn't go back to HP. There is something about the way they are set up. Glitchy. I got my son a new top of the range HP for Christmas and it's good, but I think my Dell is better.

Steer clear of Lenovo. I know they are the biggest laptop manufacturers in the world, and bang for buck the most economic. I just don't trust them  for security. Lenovo is part state owned. They have been caught out preinstalling hackware in the past. We are entering a cyber cold war. Just saying.

Is there anywhere you could go to try out the feel and look if the computer? On paper they always look wonderful, but when I go to the shops and check they out, Lenovo screens underimpress, HP keyboards feel plasticy etc.. seeing them in the flesh helps. 

Have you considered Asus?

Philip , is your dell a new one ? is it silent (zero fan ) when on idle ? my is , the new thinkbook i just got is very well built , latency is exellent , the power is insane , but while super quiet while gaming versus other laptops , it can be quiet when idle !! fans kicks in at 42 degrees !!! then when at 39 they stop and then when at 42 they're back !!

Also i wanted to go in power settings advanced settings to put cpu cooling in passive mode : option is not there since a certain windows upate (yep people ask me why i stay on win 8 !!) 

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7 hours ago, Zo said:

Philip , is your dell a new one ? is it silent (zero fan ) when on idle ? my is , the new thinkbook i just got is very well built , latency is exellent , the power is insane , but while super quiet while gaming versus other laptops , it can be quiet when idle !! fans kicks in at 42 degrees !!! then when at 39 they stop and then when at 42 they're back !!

Also i wanted to go in power settings advanced settings to put cpu cooling in passive mode : option is not there since a certain windows upate (yep people ask me why i stay on win 8 !!) 

I bought my Dell second hand from eBay.  It's an XPS 15 Touch. Fan noise is super quiet. My old HP sounds like it's asthmatic by comparison. My son's new HP pavilion is pretty good with heat, 

You know there is a simple hack to get the power settings menu back, right?

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New computers are kinda fun but a bit of a distraction.

If there are things you want to be able to do but cannot, or you have limited time to mix and waiting on bounces is eating into your time, then sure.

As far as laptops are concerned, I use old cast-offs. If you jack up the buffer, they work fine for just using them as tape recorders. Even really old ones.

I mix on a desktop b/c it's faster.

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7 hours ago, Philip G Hunt said:

I bought my Dell second hand from eBay.  It's an XPS 15 Touch. Fan noise is super quiet. My old HP sounds like it's asthmatic by comparison. My son's new HP pavilion is pretty good with heat, 

You know there is a simple hack to get the power settings menu back, right?

Yep i did the hacks , but it doesn t bring advanced setting i had to edit registry to get cpu power management option back ... ( i also discovered some other option that lets you limit the frequnecies , thresholds ect but anyway , i m not talking low fan i m talking no fan here ...

i managed to create a silent mode on my own by limiting the cpu freq at 1.8 like on battery mode ...

zero fan until 42 degres witch is too low !

my dell can be zero fan until 50 degrees witch is quite never reached in idle ... this is what i want ...

zero control other the fan noise via os , it s bios made ...tried sevral 3 party software but no go ...

too bad cause this is the best bang for the buck around , a superb performer .

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