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Patrick Azzarello

Non-crosssfade clip "joins"

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I've been searching and while there's been a  lot of discussion about this, I didn't really see a resolution to it based on the following scenario: 

1. I record our rehearsals and gigs to a Behringer X32, using the X-Live card. I start the recording at the beginning of the set, and stop it at the end of the set. 

2. Due to the format of the SD cards that X-Live uses, recordings that require more storage than the max file size (@4 gb) supported by FAT32 , and the XLive automagically "roll over" into separate, sequential, audio files.

       2a. I can't simply concatenate the files because of teh format used (32-Bit PCM multi-channel WAV file).

3. I then take these files and import them into Cakewalk, which breaks the multichannel file into separate tracks from each of the files.

4. For songs that span multiple files (see #2 above), I need to butt the clips together. I'd like to do this in a way that is sample accuratee (So that I don't lose data, gaps, or have pops). 

5. Since these are raw audio, and do not alight to "musical time" (e.g., bars and beats), it is not an option to bound the clips to bars and beats. 

Note:I know that the Behringer solution is not the most elegant solution, but it's what I have and it works pretty well for me with the exxception of having to manually contatenate the clips together. I'd rather not waste time discussing how Behringer could do it better (they probably wont do anything anyway), or how it should have been designed. I'd like to find a solution and share it with out Cakewalk users so we can get back to making and mixing music. :) 

Here's what I'd love to do:

A. Import each file into Cakewalk. I'd leave a little space between each on the Cakewalk track view (e.g., timeline)

B. Once imported, I'd then select all the clips associated with file 2, and drag them so they butt up against the clips from file 1. 

C. I'd repeat until I'm finished. 

The problem: 

  I can't seem to do this without having a cross fade. I know that there are some "slip" edits, etc., but I've never had to use them and could use some basic pointers. 

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19 hours ago, Patrick Azzarello said:

 I can't seem to do this without having a cross fade.

If I'm understanding you correctly , it sounds to me like your "snap to grid" setting isn't allowing you to drag the clip exactly where you want it ??  If this is the case , zoom in and turn the snap off. 

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1 hour ago, mark skinner said:

If I'm understanding you correctly , it sounds to me like your "snap to grid" setting isn't allowing you to drag the clip exactly where you want it ??  If this is the case , zoom in and turn the snap off. 

My first thoughts too. 
Turn off snap and make sure Ripple edit is also disabled 

Place the now time at the split 

Hold down Alt key and use the scroll wheel to zoom in. 

Select the tracks on the right and drag them to the precise spot. 

Just a quick question. Have you thought about just recording directly into Cakewalk using the x32.?  
It can do this easily. All you need is a real basic laptop. The one I use is a 2008 Sony with duo 2.3 hz and 4 GB of RAM. It now has a 250 GB ssd drive but I have recorded lots of gigs on the original drive too.  It doesn’t take much to record live audio. I have about 20 gigs I’m someday going to edit they are recorded as sets around 1 hour each. 
I just transferred them to my main daw for editing. 
Here’s the first one I finished editing, I grabbed a bunch of band photos and even a videos  of us playing different songs. 
https://youtu.be/gaJLIgix32s

300 songs to go😮

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11 hours ago, mark skinner said:

If I'm understanding you correctly , it sounds to me like your "snap to grid" setting isn't allowing you to drag the clip exactly where you want it ??  If this is the case , zoom in and turn the snap off. 

Is there a "Snap" option for audio clips that doesn't use the metronomic grid? 

Afaik, Snap to Grid only works if you're working in a grid. As I stated above, this is an entire live set of music, and thus putting a metronomic grid in won't work as far as I can tell. 

Even if this was a recording tracked to a grid, it still wouldn't necessarily work because the players are never precisely on the grid (sample accurate). 

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9 hours ago, John Vere said:

Select the tracks on the right and drag them to the precise spot. 

Just a quick question. Have you thought about just recording directly into Cakewalk using the x32.?  

The drag to the precise spot is what I'm doing as a workaround, but it still can be prone to error (e.g., sample accuracy is what I'd like to have). 

I have used Cakewalk to record live gigs (back to 2000 IIRC), but there are multiple issues for my scenarios where this won't work because of:

1. Backing tracks are playing through the X32 (it's acting as the audio interface for those tracks). 

2. Even if I did bring a second laptop (got a bunch), you can only connect one machine to the X32 via USB at a time, and playing the backing tracks (Ableton), and recording into Cakewalk puts a strain on the machine, and there are also other issues around Windows and starting/stopping/loading the backing tracks (can cause dropouts to the recorded stream). 

Thought about this a lot and recording to SD and then the import/butt join for the tracks is the most robust, least complicated solution (and lets me run and go, not worry about tech crap while I'm trying to play).     

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11 minutes ago, Patrick Azzarello said:

Is there a "Snap" option for audio clips that doesn't use the metronomic grid? 

Snap-to-grid supports both musical and absolute time. 

The absolute time settings are at the bottom of the snap resolution drop down (D in the image below) in the Snap module.

Tools.19.2.png

This along with nudge, it is possible to place clips anywhere on the timeline.

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I believe snap can be set to " landmarks" which includes the clip boundry? If I'm correct they should simply align from clip edge to clip edge and be sample accurate - just make sure to dis-able crossfades.  Maybe I'm missing something here.

Edited by RBH

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34 minutes ago, scook said:

Snap-to-grid supports both musical and absolute time. 

The absolute time settings are at the bottom of the snap resolution drop down (D in the image below) in the Snap module.

Tools.19.2.png

This along with nudge, it is possible to place clips anywhere on the timeline.

Thank you. Been using Cakewalk for 25 years and I still get surprised by things I didn't know about. 

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RIFF (Wav) files have a chunk limit of 4GB, but other formats such as FLAC don't. FLAC is lossless, and Cakewalk will happily import it.
There are command line based methods to automatically convert and concatenate Wav files such as this from here:

ffmpeg -f concat -i mylist.txt -c:a flac output-ffmpeg.flac

Where mylist.txt is:
   file '/path/to/file1.wav'
   file '/path/to/file2.wav'
   file '/path/to/file3.wav'

If this is something you have to do a lot, I might be able to write a little GUI based utility to make it easier...

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I doubt if the x32 can be told to record in other formats.  
 

@Patrick Azzarello I see that explains a lot. I too use backing tracks so totally understand, and especially the part about having better things to do at gigs than fuss with technology.
My live recording set up was extra work but I basically set it up and tried to remember it was there as the night progressed. As a result the levels are all over the map but the goal was just recording to see how we sound and what needs improvement. The band broke up 3 years ago so now these tracks are all that remains.  

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So that worked for me. I haven't had the time to use the snap to clip using absolute time yet, but I'll give that a try when I have more time to experiment. 

Thanks to the community for the help. 

 

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