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Amicus717

A real treasure arrived on my doorstep today…

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The full score to James Horner’s Krull soundtrack! Released for the first time ever, as far as I know. This baby clocks in at over 400 pages.

One my favorite soundtracks, bought on CD in my youth, and in heavy rotation on my iTunes to the current day. It’s a huge, heavy, full throttle bit of orchestral thunder in the old school style but with modern touches (circa 1983).

For many years, I’ve wanted to know the full details of what went on inside the orchestration for this one — listening to it isn’t nearly enough with this score, as the music is so dense and you can sense there are a lot of things going on that are not immediately apparent.  

Really looking forward to reading through it while listening…

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Edited by Amicus717
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Shame about the film 🙂  To be fair, I loved it as a kid when it came out, but looking back at it, it was truly awful!

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2 hours ago, Tim Smith said:

Congrats!

That's an awful lot of midi programming.

I may need to learn how to use macros for this one. 

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2 minutes ago, Kevin Perry said:

Shame about the film 🙂  To be fair, I loved it as a kid when it came out, but looking back at it, it was truly awful!

Well, that's true, although it's developed a pretty good cult following in later years and I think it's now seen as a high water-mark for the golden age of 80's fantasy cheeze.

I saw in theatres as a young teenager and thought it was pretty boss, at the time. Yeah, the story makes zero sense if you think about it even a little, and despite the lavishly appointed sets, Krull never escapes looking like a dolled-up soundstage full of bad theatre fencers. But the music is really great, and that helps a lot. It's also a lot of fun to see Liam Neeson and Robbie Coltrane in pre-stardom roles. 

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I've seen scanning software that will convert sheet music to midi. Here's one program. You take a pic with your cell or use a flatbed scanner, load it in, and it converts it to a midi file. Don't know how accurate it is but I'm sure there's something on YouTube about it. 

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41 minutes ago, Shane_B. said:

I've seen scanning software that will convert sheet music to midi. Here's one program. You take a pic with your cell or use a flatbed scanner, load it in, and it converts it to a midi file. Don't know how accurate it is but I'm sure there's something on YouTube about it. 

I tried one of those, and the problem for me is that they quantize all the notes and play them at equal volumes, so it sounds robotic. I suppose for some forms of music it might work, but it didn't work for me. YMMV

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

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1 hour ago, Shane_B. said:

I've seen scanning software that will convert sheet music to midi. Here's one program. You take a pic with your cell or use a flatbed scanner, load it in, and it converts it to a midi file. Don't know how accurate it is but I'm sure there's something on YouTube about it. 

 

22 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

I tried one of those, and the problem for me is that they quantize all the notes and play them at equal volumes, so it sounds robotic. I suppose for some forms of music it might work, but it didn't work for me. YMMV

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Well, I mainly got the score for the purpose of study, and it's just as well - I can say with certainty there is no sheet music to midi converter in the world that will work with this puppy...barely 10 minutes into it, and I've come across string writing that involved 16 divisi parts across all four sections, and one page that had five bars of music...and five separate time signature changes to go along with them. 

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I like your restraint.  I know I couldn't have resisted making the topic title "Score!!!" 😁

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56 minutes ago, craigb said:

I like your restraint.  I know I couldn't have resisted making the topic title "Score!!!" 😁

Restraint got nothing to do with it. I just didn't think of it. Dammit.

 

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I forced(!) myself to watch it last night (YouTube- almost all of it there).  Yep, it's a bad plot but there's some great bits in it and some good characters.  The bluescreen technology shows its age though!

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1 hour ago, Kevin Perry said:

 The bluescreen technology shows its age though!

Oh, it does! Mind you, that's almost part of the charm. :) I'm actually getting kind of jaded and tired of the excessive, realer-than-real CGI that they currently dump all over today's movies. Sometimes it looks pretty good, sure, but just as often it looks plasticky and fake, and breaks the illusion just as effectively as bad bluescreen work from 1983.

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If you do decide to try scanning it in, one of the most accurate I've found (and I've tried a few) is the latest version of SmartScore, SmartScore  64 Pro or for the slightly less well off, the MIDI only version. The full version will additionally generate Music XML which you can import into e.g. Finale or Sibelius.

It will take note of marked dynamics e.g. pp to ff, and also hairpins, etc.

The latest version also includes a piano roll editor which gives you access to MIDI control lanes so you can draw in the dynamics if you like.

I upgraded my copy last year and am very pleased with the results.

Take a look here www.musitek.com.

Edited by JohnG
typo
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18 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

I tried one of those, and the problem for me is that they quantize all the notes and play them at equal volumes, so it sounds robotic. I suppose for some forms of music it might work, but it didn't work for me. YMMV

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

You always have to do quite a bit of editing with this kind of thing.

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2 hours ago, JohnG said:

If you do decide to try scanning it in, one of the most accurate I've found (and I've tried a few) is the latest version of SmartScore, SmartScore  64 Pro or for the slightly less well off, the MIDI only version. The full version will additionally generate Music XML which you can import into e.g. Finale or Sibelius.

It will take note of marked dynamics e.g. pp to ff, and also hairpins, etc.

The latest version also includes a piano roll editor which gives you access to MIDI control lanes so you can draw in the dynamics if you like.

I upgraded my copy last year and am very pleased with the results.

Take a look here www.musitek.com.

Yeah, I doubt I'll even attempt it. Really, I just want to watch the music happen on the page while listening.

The score breakout matches perfectly with the double CD re-issue of the Krull soundtrack by La La Land Records, which I also happen to have on hand. So I've been literally sitting down and just listening and following along. Very educational.

Anyway, select pages from this score are so dense with notes, lines and esoteric notational whimsy, that at first glance it looks like bizarro wallpaper. I can see SmartScore taking one look and throwing up a BSOD, just because...

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4 hours ago, Amicus717 said:

Oh, it does! Mind you, that's almost part of the charm. :) I'm actually getting kind of jaded and tired of the excessive, realer-than-real CGI that they currently dump all over today's movies. Sometimes it looks pretty good, sure, but just as often it looks plasticky and fake, and breaks the illusion just as effectively as bad bluescreen work from 1983.

Hehe...  I couldn't help but be reminded of that absolutely horrible Scorpion King CGI scene from the Mummy Returns in my head when I read this!  LMAO! 🤣

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1 minute ago, craigb said:

Hehe...  I couldn't help but be reminded of that absolutely horrible Scorpion King CGI scene from the Mummy Returns in my head when I read this!  LMAO! 🤣

Oh yeah! Exhibit A...

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On 1/6/2022 at 11:56 PM, Notes_Norton said:

I tried one of those, and the problem for me is that they quantize all the notes and play them at equal volumes, so it sounds robotic. I suppose for some forms of music it might work, but it didn't work for me. YMMV

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Yes, that's quite true.

However, if you're determined to make orchestral tracks sound better, a tempo map based on your favourite interpretation can bring some life to it. Then you can do some (a lot of(?)) shuffling of note start/end times. But, agreed, It's a lot of work. Not too bad for a simple short song, but potentially months of work for a complete orchestral score!

Note velocities/dynamics are handled in a much improved way with the latest version of the program.

I managed several sections of the Haydn Missa in Angustiis (the Nelson mass) as a rehearsal file for a singer learning the work a few years back.

She was to sing one of the parts with a full orchestra but was unfamiliar with it.

Not so much these days as I approach my dotage.

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21 hours ago, bdickens said:

You always have to do quite a bit of editing with this kind of thing.

I find it easier just to play the parts in, in real time, than to go back and edit every note for velocity, precise timing, etc.

By playing in real time, if I haven't practiced it enough beforehand, I'll play a few wrong notes, but I don't let that bother me, as long as the timing and dynamics are there, I can fix a few notes in the piano roll editor.

I've never attempted anything this huge, though. It seems to be a monumental task.

Mostly I make my own backing tracks for my duo http://www.s-cats.com and make aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box @ http://www.nortonmusic.com

I do this by first recording the drums, then the bass, and layering other parts on top. I record everything in real time, that way I get subtle timing and dynamic expression. When the drums are down, all the other comp parts have to respect the groove and either sync with it or contrast it. Fortunately, I play drums, bass, sax, wind MIDI controller, guitar, flute, and keyboards. Life is too short to play only one instrument.

The longest things I've recorded are 20-minute medleys that we used to play during dinner sets. I did two in light swing rhythm and one more in a rhumba and bossa rhythm. I did these by recording each song separately and then pasting them together in Master Tracks Pro.

But there is more than one correct way to make music. My way is best for me, and will be until I learn a better way. YMMV

Notes ♫

 

 

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Anytime someone mentions Krull, all I can see is the glaive. That’s what I took away from that film……

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