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Peter C

SampleTank v 4.1.4 Groov e Player question

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I've been having a look at SampleTank and noted the other threads here about crashing. My issue has been that it has loaded and worked fine in CbB and saved okay. However when trying to open the saved file CbB just closes down and doesn't generate a crash log. So, taking advice from previous posts, I reinstalled just the VST2 version, not 3 - no difference.  Then did a 'safe' file open (hit shift and open) and interestingly two options came up. The first one asked did I want to load ST, I answered yes. The second asked did I want to open Groove Player. I presume Groove Player is part of ST? (That's my question)  Anyway when I hit no to open groove player, the file loaded and operates as normal and I can't actually see what difference Groove Player makes. ST appears to be working normally. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Peter C said:

I presume Groove Player is part of ST? (That's my question)  Anyway when I hit no to open groove player, the file loaded and operates as normal and I can't actually see what difference Groove Player makes. ST appears to be working normally. 

I never noticed a discrete Groove Player, because it seems to be embedded in the core ST4 interface. Any instrument that you insert which includes a groove has an active "Player/Loop" button on the instrument Parts View. For example there are many drum loops in the Neil Peart Drums library. No crashes here either.

From the manual:

ST4 Loop Player Capture.JPG

and...

image.png.6c496ca9e1735dd5c1dd3750309cf665.png

Edited by abacab

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3 hours ago, Peter C said:

Then did a 'safe' file open (hit shift and open) and interestingly two options came up. The first one asked did I want to load ST, I answered yes. The second asked did I want to open Groove Player. I presume Groove Player is part of ST?

There may be something in SampleTank called Groove Player

but

Groove Player in the context of CbB safe mode is the plug-in used by the DAW for its metronome.

 

Anything running inside a plug-in like 

ST4 Loop Player Capture.JPG

is not going to show up as a separate prompt in CbB safe mode.

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7 minutes ago, scook said:

Groove Player in the context of CbB safe mode is the plug-in used by the DAW for its metronome.

Interesting factoid, @scook!!!

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Oh thanks abacab. I should have said I only have the CS version of ST (trying it out) but everything is where you said it is. And I have now spotted that if you hover over the 3rd icon from the left just above the pitch and mod wheels and keyboard it actually comes up as Groove Player. I still can't get it to open a saved file correctly without disabling GP in safe start-up of ST. But when I insert ST as a softsynth in a project it loads and performs fine.  And it appears GP works even though I choose not to load it. I haven't got any loops loaded so it's possible it won't play those but all drum and arpeggio patterns work as normal. 

Scook I didn't make myself clear, it wasn't CbB safe mode,  it was opening the softsynth in safe mode (I think that's how it's described).  CbB's metronome is working fine so I guess it can't be CbB's groove player.  And I didn't know that factoid either. 

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Not having any IKM products installed, I am sure it is my error.

This is the GroovePlayer DXi message displayed when opening a CbB project in safe mode.

yIGveKe.png

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38 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I still can't get it to open a saved file correctly without disabling GP in safe start-up of ST. But when I insert ST as a softsynth in a project it loads and performs fine.  And it appears GP works even though I choose not to load it. I haven't got any loops loaded so it's possible it won't play those but all drum and arpeggio patterns work as normal. 

Scook I didn't make myself clear, it wasn't CbB safe mode,  it was opening the softsynth in safe mode (I think that's how it's described).  CbB's metronome is working fine so I guess it can't be CbB's groove player.  And I didn't know that factoid either. 

I wasn't even aware that SampleTank had a safe start-up. No reference to it in the user guide.

How do you do that?

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1 hour ago, abacab said:

wasn't even aware that SampleTank had a safe start-up. No reference to it in the user guide.

How do you do that?

When you open a Cakewalk project file, hit SHIFT+projectname and it may present options as per the screenshots below.

Quote

Not having any IKM products installed, I am sure it is my error.

This is the GroovePlayer DXi message displayed when opening a CbB project in safe mode.

No, Scook,  it's not your error because it does appear as though your screenshot is exactly the same as mine! Which may explain why SampleTank's Groove Player (with a space between the words) still appears to be operative. But this is opening a file not CbB in safe mode. 

And another thing I have noticed is that when I do save a SampleTank project it does not always appear on the Start screen. However after opening it safely it then does. But when I then click on it in the start screen that also causes the crash. 

 

 

Screenshot 2021-06-13 190213.png

Screenshot 2021-06-13 190319.png

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It is true, the only safe mode CbB has is invoked by holding down the SHIFT key while opening  a project.

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Oh, I didn't realise that was CbB safe mode. After using Sonar for years and years, it's probably a (my) memory thing. 😀

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No problem, safe mode in SONAR worked the same way.

IIRC, the GroovePlayer DXi goes back to Project 5 and serves as the audio metronome in SONAR and CbB.

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So why would disabling this cause Sample tank to load normally?

 

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That would be a question for Cakewalk and IKM support.

Program crashes are create a memory dump.

When a program hangs, it is possible to force a dump.

Dumps can be useful when trying to resolve program failures.

CbB 2021.04 added improved exception handling. This is documented here

 

Sometimes projects that don't load normally load in safe mode apparently just by the very action of slowing down the load process.

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That's really helpful, thanks. I'll see what I can do with this and report back but don't wait up. Easiest way out is to ditch SampleTank as, for me, CbB is now very stable with everything else I use. 

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I'd rather ditch Cakewalk and keep my SampleTank 4 MAX, LOL!!! Fortunately, I don't have to make that decision as I'm fully invested in ST4, and they play well together here. :)

Sorry for your troubles! 

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Sorry for your troubles! 

Appreciated. 

Final thoughts on this......I still can't generate a mididump because the program doesn't hang, it just closes. 

Interestingly, in my version of Sonar Platinum (Newburyport), SampleTank works as expected. No problems opening files. 

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1 hour ago, Peter C said:

Appreciated. 

Final thoughts on this......I still can't generate a mididump because the program doesn't hang, it just closes. 

Interestingly, in my version of Sonar Platinum (Newburyport), SampleTank works as expected. No problems opening files. 

Can you list the exact steps needed to re-create this? Also what sample rate is your project, and what audio interface/driver are you using?

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Interface is Yamaha Steinberg UR44. USB connection with its own ASIO driver. Sample rate is 96,000 Hz. It's an i8700 system with 2 x m.2 nvme drives and 32gb of RAM.

Steps for CbB:-

Load a blank project.
Insert SampleTank as a VST Instrument with MIDI source track.
Load sound and record on MIDI track.
Save file as a normal Cakewalk project.
Close CbB.

Start CbB.
Open SampleTank project file.
Cakewalk attempts to load the project but just closes with no minidump. 

A similar project created in SPLAT will load without a problem in both SPLAT and CbB. Why? It appears that the SPLAT saved version doesn't include a reference to Cakewalk's GroovePlayer - that can be seen by opening the project file in safe mode. But once the SPLAT version is saved again in CbB it reverts to type, i.e. a safe start is needed to successfully open it - presumably because CbB now puts in the GroovePlayer reference. 

I should also say that when the project does successfully open in safe mode the project window defaults to quite a small size - presumably because it's in safe mode.

The work-around for me is to simply start the project in safe mode.

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15 minutes ago, Peter C said:

Steps for CbB:-

Load a blank project.
Insert SampleTank as a VST Instrument with MIDI source track.
Load sound and record on MIDI track.
Save file as a normal Cakewalk project.
Close CbB.

Start CbB.
Open SampleTank project file.
Cakewalk attempts to load the project but just closes with no minidump.

I just did exactly this, and with no problems. I tested Cakewalk ST4 projects at 48KHz and 96KHz. Running Focusrite 2i2 USB with their ASIO.

Are you using the default project template, and have you done any customization to the metronome settings? It's weird, but the metronome seems to be related to the issue in some way, based on your tests. I have no idea why, so just guessing...

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Yes default template, no no metronome customization. I've sent you the two files.

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