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miasmyr

[Feature Request] Record audio and Midi into Matrix Cells

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Hi,  

It would be great if Cakewalk fully optimized the Matrix view, with options to record and edit audio and Midi such is in Ableton Live.  Essentially having a clip launcher inside Cakewalk the same way Digital Performer incorporated it in their update to DP10.  This would be useful for not only performance but brainstorming  and trying ideas before the Arranger stage.

  In the Matrix view, you can have clips of different lengths playing together giving it far more flexibility when mixing different ideas together on the fly.  the timeline gets very messy having so many different ideas scattered about, having a pool of cells and scenes to choose from is much neater and would improve workflow tremendously.   It could also work nicely to convert  your Matrix scenes to arranger tabs and build from there.

If each cell opened up either a piano roll clip or an audio clip in which you could edit them further and include the clip automation, that would be highly effective.

Thanks,

Paul

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I'd like to second this

I had submitted a thread some weeks ago confused about why content in the Matrix View didn't seem to be able to update while being played (needed manual stop + restart):

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php?/topic/29104-unable-to-modify-midistep-clips-in-matrix-view-during-playback-must-stopre-launch/&tab=comments#comment-237336

If you look at the 10 second video embedded in the thread, you can see the impact it has on the feedback loop.

The ability to have MIDI/audio content linked realtime to Matrix View clips, such that each iteration of a clip did a fresh read of the underlying content source if the "last editted at" date, or file content hash has changed (any mechanism to detect updates, you get the point) would enable a really fantastic workflow.

I'm sure it's not anywhere near this easy, but hopefully you get the gist here:

image.png.57048465a6d9a2a7992f21bc8adb0fcc.png

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Is there any way to get in contact with the Bandlab team members that work on the DAW?

I would be willing to sign an NDA + Non-compete agreement and an Independent Contractor, and write this feature myself for free.

If it were OSS, I'd just write and send the pull request and be through with it, but obviously I cannot do that.

I am not joking, and mean no offense. It's just that I'm fairly certain it's likely this will never come and the only thing standing in the way of this at least having a sliver of a chance to happen, is someone willing to let me do it for free, at no cost or risk to Bandlab's IP.

There's a solid chance that the technical complexity is so high that I absolutely cannot do it, but I'd like to at least give it a shot.

Should I leave my contact information here or what?

https://github.com/GavinRay97

I'm not sure what your codebase is written in, but I managed to pick up C++ and do this for JUCE:

Modify juce_AudioProcessor.h and juce_VST3_Wrapper.cpp to allow registering custom VST3 interfaces + provide user AudioProcessor with "hostContext" pointer #902

Maybe I could contribute here, too?

---

Edit: Yes, it is C++

The .pdb file with debug symbols comes from a Jenkins job on your CI/CD server, where the binary gets built, it's path is:

`"D:\Jenkins\workspace\BL_Cakewalk_Release\Repositories\SONAR\2021-09\Cakewalk\x64\Unicode Release\SONAR.pdb"`

For your HTTP client, you're using the Microsoft `cpprestsdk`:

https://github.com/microsoft/cpprestsdk

The classes related to the matrix view look like `CMatrixView*` and `CGrooveMatrix*`, and it seems the UI is in  JUCE-based (see screenshots attached), with additions from the base Microsft MFC UI stuff?

There's something I've never heard of before in here: `CJLibrary`, which appears to be something called:

https://codejock.com/

"Visual C++ / ActiveX Controls for Desktop Application Development"

A bunch of pre-made MFC/VC++ UI component templates it looks like?

image.thumb.png.97b2d94eb17ec316a15576ff1d65dd61.png
 

image.thumb.png.6c23a4a8603d19a71bddbaeff9ba1610.png

image.thumb.png.a37090a429e48b3715df0bdeeb69e1f1.png

 

Edited by Gavin Ray
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This forum is probably the best way to get in touch with the developers. They participate here regularly. And the best way to pitch in and be part of the development process is probably to become a beta tester. Won't hurt to ask.

I suspect there have been calls to extend the functionality of the Matrix View since the day it was introduced, but I've been around for 3 1/2 years now and not seen it get any attention. I'm not (yet) familiar with that kind of workflow, but as I get more into creating electronic music ITB, I should explore it.

The suggestions that more people respond to on the forum are the ones that are most likely to come to fruition, so don't give up if there's something you'd really like to see.

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@Gavin Ray, one way to attract the attention of the development team is to invoke a name.  For example, @Noel Borthwick is the team leader.  Perhaps he will see this thread and contact you.  Also, you might want to contact Noel or one of the other team members by email.

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@Gavin Davies thanks for your interest. There is no way to contribute to actual development other than being a developer because Cakewalk isn't open source.
Matrix cells store a copy of data and there is no linkage with tracks so it cannot be edited in realtime unlike the step sequencer which has native cel data.
The cel data can be copied out of a cel into the TV via drag and drop and edited there and copied back but there is no direct way to do that in real time today.

We have update to the matrix in our backlog but it won't be in the immediate future. Recording and direct editing were considered in the original spec for the Matrix but did not make it in. 

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I'm glad to hear that work on Matrix is somewhere on the to-do list. It looks to have a lot of potential for developing Abletonesque workflows.

One thing I would like is a right-click (or Tetris button, not sure what that thing on MIDI clips is called) Send to Matrix Cell for both audio and MIDI clips.

I like integration between the various views.

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On 8/30/2021 at 3:10 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

There is no way to contribute to actual development other than being a developer because Cakewalk isn't open source.

Understandable -- I wish the situation were more amenable to folks offering to contract pro-bono, but if  that's not viable then there's nothing that can be done, aye.

On 8/30/2021 at 3:10 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

Matrix cells store a copy of data and there is no linkage with tracks so it cannot be edited in realtime unlike the step sequencer which has native cel data.

Ah so the cells take a copy of the class/struct, and don't store a reference/pointer to the current item. And this is why there's no update reflected until playback is stopped, because the "play" function is called with a non-referenced copy of the data that doesn't reflect realtime changes.

On 8/30/2021 at 3:10 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

We have update to the matrix in our backlog but it won't be in the immediate future. Recording and direct editing were considered in the original spec for the Matrix but did not make it in. 

This is encouraging to hear, at least! I think it would bring a ton of value.

Thank you for addressing the topic 😃

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1 hour ago, Gavin Ray said:

Ah so the cells take a copy of the class/struct, and don't store a reference/pointer to the current item. And this is why there's no update reflected until playback is stopped, because the "play" function is called with a non-referenced copy of the data that doesn't reflect realtime changes.

Yes a matrix cell has a full copy of the underlying data stream. While the base data type is similar, clips in tracks are more complex than data in matrix cel’s, hence its not trivial to share data directly across tracks. Editing operations are different etc.

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