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Logan_4600

Take Lanes state Today

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Hi everyone! Back to business in the new forum! So, if many of you, like me, followed the continuos releases of Sonar through the years, I bet y'all remember how divisive Take Lanes were, and, mostly, how buggy they were. I've tried, really tried, but Track Layers were so essential to my workflow that I'm still on 8.5. So, beign 2018, post SPlat era, what is the state of TL? Is there any other new retro-feature that resembles Track Layers? How did you overcome them?

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Take Lanes are more or less the same as they were since they were introduced in Sonar. There are no new features that harken back to Track Layers.

Personally I don't  believe there is anything you could do with Track Layers that you can't do with Take Lanes, albeit specific workflows that are now less efficient. Definitely a Swings and Roundabouts situation, nothing's changed there.

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The functionality of Take Lanes is very similar to Layers, but how you get to that functionality differs. Because of this, people tried to use Take Lanes the way they used Layers, and when that didn't work, they assumed Take Lanes were buggy. This isn't to say there couldn't be bugs, but a lot of those were due to unfamiliarity with a different workflow. For example, if you do manual editing with the Edit tool instead of using the comping-specific tools, Take Lanes work a lot more like Layers.

I put a lot of effort into sorting this all out, and wrote up the results for my Sound on Sound magazine column. Although it's about X3, the information still applies to CbB. I think you'll find the column very useful in making Take Lanes act like Layers (especially the section on editing), as well as understand some of the benefits of Take Lanes.

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I have been consistently asking for items to allow the ease I had with layers.

Right now, I find it as easy comfortable for my normal workflow.

...except for zoom issues and such.

I spend far too much time getting to a workable zoom.

Why must the track be emphasized larger than the lanes when they are open for editing? If I lasso/select multiple clips in lanes why must me resulting zoom have a tall track and shorter lanes when I wanted nly the lanes to begin with.

Why must I be forced to see the selected/promoted clips on the track while editing clips? Yes, it makes it easy to see which are the selected, but confuses my eye and more so if I have lanes open on more than one track.

 

oops... sorry, I didn't mean to push this thread into my old complaints, but it's always on my mind and in my face.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Craig Anderton said:

The functionality of Take Lanes is very similar to Layers, but how you get to that functionality differs. Because of this, people tried to use Take Lanes the way they used Layers, and when that didn't work, they assumed Take Lanes were buggy. This isn't to say there couldn't be bugs, but a lot of those were due to unfamiliarity with a different workflow. For example, if you do manual editing with the Edit tool instead of using the comping-specific tools, Take Lanes work a lot more like Layers.

I put a lot of effort into sorting this all out, and wrote up the results for my Sound on Sound magazine column. Although it's about X3, the information still applies to CbB. I think you'll find the column very useful in making Take Lanes act like Layers (especially the section on editing), as well as understand some of the benefits of Take Lanes.

Craig! a pleassure to see you in here! Actually, I've read that particular article back in the day (and many many other of yours! ;) ). But, I still have lots and lots of issues whenever I try to get back to them trying to accomodate myself to Take Lanes. Maybe I'm just obfuscated, and that´s it. But jeez, I still feel Layers were just way more simple and straightforward

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9 minutes ago, Keni said:

I have been consistently asking for items to allow the ease I had with layers.

Right now, I find it as easy comfortable for my normal workflow.

...except for zoom issues and such.

I spend far too much time getting to a workable zoom.

Why must the track be emphasized larger than the lanes when they are open for editing? If I lasso/select multiple clips in lanes why must me resulting zoom have a tall track and shorter lanes when I wanted nly the lanes to begin with.

Why must I be forced to see the selected/promoted clips on the track while editing clips? Yes, it makes it easy to see which are the selected, but confuses my eye and more so if I have lanes open on more than one track.

 

oops... sorry, I didn't mean to push this thread into my old complaints, but it's always on my mind and in my face.

 

 

And the simplicity to just sort them out with a click! Simple, easy, quick! I swear I demoed every other version of Sonar available and I've never, ever could stand Lanes, or make them work for me

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Setting the record mode to "Sound on Sound",  enabling Auto Punch and then checking "Mute Previous Takes" pretty much gives me the layers functionality I used in Sonar 8.5.

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22 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Setting the record mode to "Sound on Sound",  enabling Auto Punch and then checking "Mute Previous Takes" pretty much gives me the layers functionality I used in Sonar 8.5.

But, wouldn't we be losing all takes but last?

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17 minutes ago, Logan_4600 said:

But, wouldn't we be losing all takes but last?

No, it stores all the takes as separate take lanes.

By checking "Mute Previous Takes", means you can't hear the other lanes while you're recording.

The only extra step you need to take, is to solo the take you want to keep at the end when you've finished recording and want to play it. 

Edited by msmcleod

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OMG, Mark, I think you may have just solved it for me. Does this work in Loop mode?

I've been trying to figure out how not to get CbB not to chop up subsequent takes into weird misplaced clips if I happen to abort a take, and if this is it, I'll be a much happier solo recordist.

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The only bug that had tripped me lately is around normalizing.

Edited by Gswitz

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I remember, in the past, that there was a "rebuild layers" command, that - in my opinion - it was a good idea.

The command was for "compacting" into fewer layers the various layers and I liked it.

If something similar could be added in the future ….. it would be nice.

Bye,

 

Giorgio

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On 12/30/2018 at 5:00 AM, Giorgio Gabriel said:

I remember, in the past, that there was a "rebuild layers" command, that - in my opinion - it was a good idea.

The command was for "compacting" into fewer layers the various layers and I liked it.

If something similar could be added in the future ….. it would be nice.

Bye,

 

Giorgio

Yes! A very handy and time saving feature, use it all the time.

Guess only chance I have is to try out msmcleod method. (Eitherway, I've always felt that the transition from 8.5 to Xnn was basically going to a new DAW. I know, it's been like what? 10 years now? That dust should've off settled by now, but it's a big move I still dont have time for all the learning curve and hassles, even though I've being trying them out every now and then with every version´s trials)

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21 hours ago, Logan_4600 said:

I've always felt that the transition from 8.5 to Xnn was basically going to a new DAW.

....but it's a big move I still dont have time for all the learning curve and hassles, even though I've being trying them out every now and then with every version´s trials)

 

After the Gibson fallout, I tried out two different DAWs that I was familiar with. When Bandlab got involved and CbB was introduced, I dropped both DAWs like hot potato's. Main reason? I was intimately familiar with Sonar, and CbB was just an updated version.

 

So even though the transition from 8.5 to CbB will be a bit of a learning curve, it will not be like going to a new DAW. But you will need to be open to new things. The amount of 'openess' you bring to the table will determine the level of difficulty you will encounter.

 

I will sing the praises of Take Lanes all day long. Once I allowed myself to learn the workflow of this method of comping, I won't go back to any previous version of Sonar/CbB, or another DAW for that matter.

 

Does Take Lanes have it's own quirks? Yep. The one that Keni points out about the zooming is an excellent example.

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On 12/30/2018 at 3:00 AM, Giorgio Gabriel said:

I remember, in the past, that there was a "rebuild layers" command, that - in my opinion - it was a good idea.

The command was for "compacting" into fewer layers the various layers and I liked it.

If something similar could be added in the future ….. it would be nice.

Bye,

 

Giorgio

Take lanes was essentially built on top of the layers infrastructure. "Rebuilding layers" automatically happens behind the scenes and is no longer required as an explicit operation.

The main reason why Take lanes was built was to provide an actual UI dedicated to take management. Lanes allowed you to do that but had a lot of manual requirements operations that were non intuitive to the main task of take management that many other platforms offered. Hence we had to make changes.

I do agree that take lanes was a change of workflow for people who were used to simply recording lanes and manually comping them later but it was a trade off we had to make to add tools that were more current. And it would have been way too difficult to maintain both the old layers workflow and take lanes simultaneously in the UI. We'll try and improve on this feature in the future. The next release also has a small tweak to take lanes...

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31 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Take lanes was essentially built on top of the layers infrastructure. "Rebuilding layers" automatically happens behind the scenes and is no longer required as an explicit operation.

The main reason why Take lanes was built was to provide an actual UI dedicated to take management. Lanes allowed you to do that but had a lot of manual requirements operations that were non intuitive to the main task of take management that many other platforms offered. Hence we had to make changes.

I do agree that take lanes was a change of workflow for people who were used to simply recording lanes and manually comping them later but it was a trade off we had to make to add tools that were more current. And it would have been way too difficult to maintain both the old layers workflow and take lanes simultaneously in the UI. We'll try and improve on this feature in the future. The next release also has a small tweak to take lanes...

Thanks Noel!

 

I disliked Lanes for quite some time, but now find it quite easy to work with other than the viewing/zoom issues, so here's hoping some progress happens in this direction soon. For me, that would clear up the issue...

 

 

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4 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Take lanes was essentially built on top of the layers infrastructure. "Rebuilding layers" automatically happens behind the scenes and is no longer required as an explicit operation.

The main reason why Take lanes was built was to provide an actual UI dedicated to take management. Lanes allowed you to do that but had a lot of manual requirements operations that were non intuitive to the main task of take management that many other platforms offered. Hence we had to make changes.

I do agree that take lanes was a change of workflow for people who were used to simply recording lanes and manually comping them later but it was a trade off we had to make to add tools that were more current. And it would have been way too difficult to maintain both the old layers workflow and take lanes simultaneously in the UI. We'll try and improve on this feature in the future. The next release also has a small tweak to take lanes...

(Off topic) Noel, this is the first time I do actually have a chance to directly interact with you, so basically, thanks for giving me (us) Sonar!

(On topic again) I'll never argue with you about tech, I'll just say that, for me, Take Lanes never worked, and I've tried several times trhougout the versions. I really still miss layers after all this time. But, maybe, like you said, if you're working on them, I could make the jump soon

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After all that said, what I really work on are clips.  Would be great if the clip object can be part of the Take Lane or whatever.  My issue is the envelopes in the Take Lane.  For example, when I create a gain envelope for a clip, that envelope should be only for that clip and not the entire lane and all of the other clips in that lane.

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53 minutes ago, micv said:

After all that said, what I really work on are clips.  Would be great if the clip object can be part of the Take Lane or whatever.  My issue is the envelopes in the Take Lane.  For example, when I create a gain envelope for a clip, that envelope should be only for that clip and not the entire lane and all of the other clips in that lane.

Hi micv...

 

you have that choice. Select clip envelope followed by type. Track envelopes are intentionally for track.

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