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John Darrow

MIDI Program Change message bug (SOLVED)

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There seems to be a bug with the MIDI program change message in Bandlab. I have a MIDI  .cwp file that works correctly with my old copy of SONAR 7 but it doesn't work with Bandlab. Both use the same default general midi .ins file.

I checked the MIDI being sent to my external synth using MIDI-OX. Bandlab sends an extra PC message, C0 00. This causes the program change to be overridden and always changed to the first patch. SONAR sends the message correctly.

 

MidiPC1.jpg

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Not sure if anything midi has changed since S7. I don’t think so. But two places to look are the events list. And for sure the midi track header. 
the track header midi bank and patch dialogue boxes are ultimately what happens. They override all other data 

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Thanks for your reply. Everything looks normal to me. BL is definitely sending MIDI messages C0 0B (PC: Vibraphone) followed by C0 00 (PC Acc. Grand Piano)

 

MidiPC2.jpg

Edited by John Darrow

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18 hours ago, John Vere said:

the track header midi bank and patch dialogue boxes are ultimately what happens. They override all other data

FWIK the track header midi bank/patch change overrides only the first appearance of it in the event list

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1 hour ago, John Darrow said:

BL is definitely sending MIDI messages C0 0B (PC: Vibraphone) followed by C0 00 (PC Acc. Grand Piano)

What will happen if you delete the Patch change event from the event list, save *AS* a temporary project and reopen?

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If I delete the entire clip so that there are no events in the event list and then I change the patch via the header, the same thing happens - 2 PC messages. Very strange. I beginning to think that I may have an installation problem. I uninstalled and reinstalled but it hasn’t fixed it.

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There is no other track. I opened a new,  empty project, create only a midi track and then output a single PC message.

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Just looking at your screen shot 

Is it the vibraphone patch you wanted?  
And what does the  “normal “ patch mean. It should be a number did you type that in?  So what I’m seeing is 2 conflicting PG messages. 
 

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1 hour ago, John Darrow said:

If I delete the entire clip so that there are no events in the event list and then I change the patch via the header, the same thing happens - 2 PC messages. Very strange. I beginning to think that I may have an installation problem. I uninstalled and reinstalled but it hasn’t fixed it.

The only other thing I can suggest is changing Bank Select Method and see if any of the 4 methods can play nicely with your setup. You can find them in the inspector far down right.

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2 hours ago, John Vere said:

Just looking at your screen shot 

Is it the vibraphone patch you wanted?  
And what does the  “normal “ patch mean. It should be a number did you type that in?  So what I’m seeing is 2 conflicting PG messages. 
 

‘Normal’ send the message without bank data. Choosing other bank methods sends bank data (msb,  lsb) before the PC message. The vibraphone patch is what I expected but it is immediately followed by Patch 0, ( acoustic piano).

Both PC messages have exactly the same time stamp. It could be that 2 data bytes are sent instead of 1, with the second byte always zero. I haven’t checked to see if the entire message is repeated or just an additional data byte. Midi-ox doesn’t show the raw data.

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So when you change the bank select method then you're getting the correct vibraphone patch but with the bank data added, followed by the phantom piano PC? Is that one also coming with bank data? I started wondering if there is any sort of a MIDI loopback in your setup? 

Edited by chris.r

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16 minutes ago, chris.r said:

So when you change the bank select method then you're getting the correct vibraphone patch but with the bank data added, followed by the phantom piano PC? Is that one also coming with bank data? I started wondering if there is any sort of a MIDI loopback in your setup? 

Same as in my original post but preceded by the bank bytes. No bank data before the ‘phantom’ piano PC.

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Honestly, I have no more idea how to help any further :( It's been a while since I was last sending PC to external gear but it may be now good time to install MIDI-OX and see what's going on here on my setup simply because I may need sending soon again.

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I'd check the main ins file to see if your gear is listed & correct. Then set the Bank & Patch & MIDI channel to the sound you want.

In my case I had to create my own ins file and only have issues when a track or project goes funky.

Also, try opening the S7 project in CbB, save as new, then close & reopen.

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It cannot be ins file related. The format of the message that is sent is incorrect with any ins I have tried, including the default general midi file. Also, as I said before, the message is correct when sent from Sonar 7 using the same default general midi ins file.

What is the S7 project?

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The only way I can reproduce this behaviour, is when there's also a Program Change set within the track's MIDI inspector, as well as the one in the event list.

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58 minutes ago, John Darrow said:

It cannot be ins file related.

That's my understanding as well. The ins files are only to help speed up with surfing through the preset names and banks (provided that someone did already the hard work and handed it to you). IIRC the only thing that could matter is that you can specify the right bank select method for your instrument in it. But bank/preset changes should work even with just the numbers in the Event List.

Since Mark has confirmed that he can reproduce it in his post above, question is whether it is a bug or something is wrong with your settings? Unfortunately I can't fire up my old trusty Cakewalk Professional 3.0 in Windows 10 anymore (or don't know the secret way but any compatibility settings don't seem to work), so I can't just save a MIDI file and load in it to see what is going on with MIDI events, and that used to be my quickest way before if I had to check some weirdness in the Event List. Since Sonar times and later, some MIDI events are sucked out from the event list and get populated in the track headers whether you like it or not, not much I can do about it.

Edited by chris.r

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What happens when you delete that Normal from the event list. My guess is it will now work. I've never used that event. You set the Bank to NONE in the inspector. Choose a patch and it should work. Works for me on Yamaha, Roland and Korg outboard synths. 

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