Jump to content
Starship Krupa

Phrase samplers for use in Cakewalk

Recommended Posts

Since CbB remains without an integrated or bundled phrase (drum machine style) sampler, my thought is that it might be helpful to compile a list of whatever we're using instead. I'm not talking about things like Kontakt or Sampletank, but rather instruments whose purpose is mostly to play back phrases when triggered by MIDI events. They all allow a certain amount of cropping and manipulation, reversing and loop options for the audio samples.

My current favorite is Speedrum Lite, which is freeware, simple but not incomplete, pretty much along the lines of what I'd like to see bundled with Cakewalk.

Others I've tried that fill the bill are Sitala, freeware, similar in features to Speedrum Lite, and TX16wx, also freeware, way more features than the others, but with corresponding complexity. I find I can get my phrase sampling jobs done more quickly with Speedrum and Sitala, but for fancy multivelocity stuff, I'd go with TX16wx.

It would of course be great to have such a thing built into Cakewalk, but these are what I've been using to get by until the feature is included.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2020 at 11:04 AM, Starship Krupa said:

My current favorite is Speedrum Lite, which is freeware, simple but not incomplete, pretty much along the lines of what I'd like to see bundled with Cakewalk.

T H A T    I S    P R E T T Y    C L O S E    T O    W H A T    W E     W O U L D     L O V E    T O    S E E    I N    C A K E W A L K    A S    S A M P L E    T R A C K   ! ! :D 

 

that plus selectable root note and without the pads as the project's track itself would be a single pad essentially, then we can further process it with the effects

ability to cycle through samples in browser smoothly during playback would be essential

envelope should be draggable

and that's it, built-in the DAW, ready for you anytime, without loading external plugins and taking additional pc resources... and without crashes :) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe @Xel Ohh would like to chime in. Or at least I'm calling your attention to this thread, because I kind of see you as the flag-bearer for the "Cakewalk Needs A Phrase Sampler" movement. 😃

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Maybe @Xel Ohh would like to chime in. Or at least I'm calling your attention to this thread, because I kind of see you as the flag-bearer for the "Cakewalk Needs A Phrase Sampler" movement. 😃

Thanks... I think I have tried all these samplers named but the speedrum lite... I might have to look into that one to see what it does..😄 But we all know that Cakewalk needs its own.. Until then we will keep looking at different samplers out there that will fill the void for now..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those waiting for an integrated phrase sampler, I just discovered that with both Sitala and Speedrum Lite, you can drag a clip directly from an audio track and drop it on a pad.

I don't know if everyone else knew that this was possible and I just missed it or what, but this is going to help my workflow in a big way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am waiting for is a sampler that can sample data live.

Drop the sampler in an audio FX rack and control it from a MIDI track.

To me that is sampling.

Clip players I have a plenty.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, scook said:

What I am waiting for is a sampler that can sample data live.

Drop the sampler in an audio FX rack and control it from a MIDI track.

To me that is sampling.

It's amazing how easy that is to do in Reaper. You can route an audio input to an instrument track in Reaper. If the instrument, like for example TX16Wx,  supports audio input and live sampling you are good to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem recording audio into the sampler modules in Cherry Audio Voltage Modular, various loopers and the like in CbB. Unfortunately, the sampler modules are very basic and loopers just are not the same.

TX16Wx is a standout. According to the developer recording was tested with Reaper only and he is not interested in addressing how audio recording is implemented.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, scook said:

What I am waiting for is a sampler that can sample data live.

Drop the sampler in an audio FX rack and control it from a MIDI track.

To me that is sampling.

And this is not currently possible, to route live audio directly to a sampler in CbB? I know if you say it isn't, it ISN'T, but I'm trying to clarify. I'm relatively new to this, to say the least.

Yes, that is "sampling," but that feature isn't important to me. I'm fine with doing my audio capture into a track and then transferring it to the sampler and then controlling if from a MIDI track

This illustrates why I've been so keen to try to define what "sampler" means, not wishing to seem pedantic, but it seemed to me that "sampler," when talking about specific functions, can mean different things to different people.

I think it might serve the interest of advocacy for this/these feature(s) for people to be more specific about what features they're talking about rather than just saying "we need a sampler." What if the developers added a "sampler" that only allowed for recording into tracks and then importing it into the sampler from there? Or if the "sampler" didn't allow the user to take audio and spread/stretch it across multiple notes, or if it were an .SFZ player/creator?

For some people, those would each be what they think of as a "sampler."

We did hear from at least one longtime power user who was opposed to inclusion of a "sampler" because he had already invested in large amounts of sample libraries and didn't want to deal with "another proprietary format." I don't think he and I were talking about the same thing.

Hmm, this gives me an idea....

To me, Kontakt and Sampletank are sample players that can also perform other operations. They cannot help me in my quest to drop heavily-effected dialogue phrases into electronic compositions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

And this is not currently possible, to route live audio directly to a sampler in CbB? I know if you say it isn't, it ISN'T, but I'm trying to clarify. I'm relatively new to this, to say the least.

Software "sampler" plug-ins that actually sample live data are pretty rare.

As I mentioned above, synths that process audio may be placed in an audio FX rack. Some developers make FX versions of their synths, some just code the synth to accept audio input. Most of these work fine when placed in an audio FX rack. I have one synth that can sample and play back live data but it is not really designed as a sampler, the samples are short and intended to be used as oscillators . The modules are limited in what they can do with the sampled audio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

Or if the "sampler" didn't allow the user to take audio and spread/stretch it across multiple notes, or if it were an .SFZ player/creator?

I would cry by then :D:D 

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

We did hear from at least one longtime power user who was opposed to inclusion of a "sampler" because he had already invested in large amounts of sample libraries and didn't want to deal with "another proprietary format."

That's why I'm suggesting a sample track that would allow us to do it all, be it triggering and mangling samples live, playing like a piano/synth or creating drum kits and what not, just keep it simple in form and functions so we don't have to read another manual and deal with more formats... and load huge 3rd party software if all you need is to deal with just a few samples.

Edited by chris.r
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, scook said:

Software "sampler" plug-ins that actually sample live data are pretty rare.

As plug-ins go that appears to be true.

But I think the point of requesting an integrated "sampler" is for an alternative to being dependent on what a 3rd party developer chooses to enable in that regard.

Both PreSonus Studio One 4 and above, and Tracktion Waveform 9 and above, have an integrated multi-sampler that can record live.
 

Quote

 

Studio One:

SampleOne XT is a full-featured sampler that builds on the strengths of our original SampleOne instrument. It features triggered
sampling, automatic time-stretching, a full range of tone-shaping tools, and flexible onboard effects.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Record view lets you record audio directly into SampleOne XT, for immediate use as new samples. To do this, first select the Input to
record, which can be any hardware audio input, send, output, or Instrument output.
 

 

Quote

 

Waveform:

Multi Sampler is a general purpose sampler instrument. While it looks simple and is easy to learn, it has a deep and interesting feature set. Drag in sounds from Audio clips, the Browser or your file system. Map zones to the keyboard, record directly to the sampler, and create slices using beat detection. Modify each sound layer with trimming, looping, pitch, panning, reversing, filter, and comprehensive envelopes, and LFOs. You can also choose one-shot triggering and trigger different samples based velocity. Also, you can load SoundFont files by drag and drop. Use the right side scratchpad to collect files that you need to edit, slice or just want to keep on hand to use later

 


Here is an example of using Sample One XT's live record mode to sample a bass guitar. Obviously not everyone wants to multi-sample their own instrument, so this is just proof that an integrated sampler can record live audio. Studio One also includes another sampler called Impact XT that is more suited for drum samples and triggering via pads rather than by keyboard.

 

And I presented the above information only as examples of what is possible if Cakewalk were to add an integrated "sampler". I am not trying to promote other products here. Just showing that the idea is already "real" elsewhere, for those who may question the need in Cakewalk.

Edited by abacab

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the Studio One example(s), probably because it's the same thing that I'm already familiar with from Mixcraft: Alpha Sampler is equivalent to Sample One and Omni Sampler is equivalent to Impact.

I'm pretty easy to please as far as features, I guess, I'm most interested in having a phrase sampler where I can drop existing audio into the sampler and then have filters, reversing, volume, and trimming. It might be fun to be able to have individual "pad FX" like we now have clip FX.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New version of Sitala is release.

This one supports the VST2 opcode for instrument names so, the pad names show up in the PRV and step sequencer note names area.

Something few synths support.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2020 at 6:38 AM, Starship Krupa said:

I like the Studio One example(s)...

The Waveform's one is not a slouch either :) 

On 12/11/2020 at 1:01 AM, abacab said:
Waveform:

Multi Sampler is a general purpose sampler instrument. While it looks simple and is easy to learn, it has a deep and interesting feature set. Drag in sounds from Audio clips, the Browser or your file system. Map zones to the keyboard, record directly to the sampler, and create slices using beat detection. Modify each sound layer with trimming, looping, pitch, panning, reversing, filter, and comprehensive envelopes, and LFOs. You can also choose one-shot triggering and trigger different samples based velocity. Also, you can load SoundFont files by drag and drop. Use the right side scratchpad to collect files that you need to edit, slice or just want to keep on hand to use later

One thing I'm missing here is dragging a midi clip onto sampler where the DAW will convert it to audio automatically on the fly. Maybe it's there just not mentioned.

That type of processing is also missing in Cakewalk, generally. We can either freeze or bounce through a command, simply dragging a midi clip onto audio track will do nothing (will keep it midi).

Edited by chris.r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, chris.r said:

That type of processing is also missing in Cakewalk, generally. We can either freeze or bounce through a command, simply dragging a midi clip onto audio track will do nothing (will keep it midi).

Hmm. Works a treat on my system, but then I have a registered Melodyne Essentials.

Do you? I found this functionality via a mouse slip. Imagine my astonishment.😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...