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Laurence Levin

Getting high latency on VI's with newest builds of Bandlab by Cakewalk.

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I love the features, interface, and feel of Bandlab by Cakewalk. I'm trying to record myself playing Pianoteq 6 with Bandlab by Cakewalk. Previously, the latency was undetectable to my ear. Starting several days ago, I started getting horribly long latency even though my settings hadn't changed. The latency feels like 1/4 second when I play notes on my MIDI controller. 

I tried  a Behringer Xenyx Q802 USB and Focusrite 4i4 3rd Generation (with recommended ASIO drivers on each device) with Sampling Rate 9600, Buffer Size 256.

The VI has extremely low latency in the standalone version and with Sonar Artist - same settings as Bandlab by Cakewalk. 

HELP!!!

 

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OMG! You are correct sir! This is a show stopper! I don't have problems with controller latency anymore. I was overjoyed until now my VST's are taking a half a second from keypress to audio! THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED ASAP! PRETTY PLEASE!!!!!!!!

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18 hours ago, Ron Benvenisti said:

OMG! You are correct sir! This is a show stopper! I don't have problems with controller latency anymore. I was overjoyed until now my VST's are taking a half a second from keypress to audio! THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED ASAP! PRETTY PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Any ideas? I now have to use my VSTs on a different less powerful machine sending MIDI there with NO LATENCY and recording back into Cakewalk via ADAT.  😓

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Posted (edited)

If you have plugins in the master bus that load the system a bit, you'll get this.  I tend to have Izotope Ozone in my master bus effects, and unless I deactivate it during monitoring of a VI, I get the latency you are talking about.  Same if I have effects in the soft-synth's channel.  That's always been the case, though, when monitoring realtime soft-synth input within Cakewalk or Sequoia or Nuendo or ProTools.

My reply here does NOT address your point if you truly are experiencing a change that is simply due to software update, of course.

I have a Lynx Two audio interface (PC card).

Edited by Jon White
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Thats the one thing I miss from StudioOne, seing total latency used, as well as on each track as well.
Protools cover this very well too. As I recall Reaper do it on the plugin chain loaded on a track.

Bakers, please give us pdc used, would help immensely feeling in control when doing late recordings in the mixing process more than anything.

All we got now is guesswork.....

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Thanks for replies!!! The bad latency is off and on, and I can't pinpoint it. It is telling that I do NOT have this problem with Cakewalk Sonar Artist. 

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16 hours ago, Laurence Levin said:

Thanks for replies!!! The bad latency is off and on, and I can't pinpoint it. It is telling that I do NOT have this problem with Cakewalk Sonar Artist. 

Plugin derived latency should behave no differently between SONAR Artist and Cakewalk by BandLab. As mentioned various plugins will introduce different levels of additional latency on top of what your overall hardware latency is set at. I'd be careful of making sure your configurations are set 1:1 between SONAR and Cakewalk by BandLab. We've done a significant number of optimizations that make the app a lot more streamlined. If you can provide a reproducible example where the latency handling is different between the two versions, we can investigate, but most latency problems I've seen boil down to either the project (plugins) or something the audio card is doing. 

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41 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

Plugin derived latency should behave no differently between SONAR Artist and Cakewalk by BandLab. As mentioned various plugins will introduce different levels of additional latency on top of what your overall hardware latency is set at. I'd be careful of making sure your configurations are set 1:1 between SONAR and Cakewalk by BandLab. We've done a significant number of optimizations that make the app a lot more streamlined. If you can provide a reproducible example where the latency handling is different between the two versions, we can investigate, but most latency problems I've seen boil down to either the project (plugins) or something the audio card is doing. 

Thanks so much Jonathan. Right now, it's working fine. How would I give you a reproducible example? I'll do more sleuthing to see under what circumstances. As stated, I've had the problem with a Behringer Xenyx interface and currently with the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen. 

As I'm kind of attached to Bandlab, and this Scarlett can still be returned, are you getting issues with this interface?

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4 hours ago, Laurence Levin said:

Thanks so much Jonathan. Right now, it's working fine. How would I give you a reproducible example? I'll do more sleuthing to see under what circumstances. As stated, I've had the problem with a Behringer Xenyx interface and currently with the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen. 

As I'm kind of attached to Bandlab, and this Scarlett can still be returned, are you getting issues with this interface?

I'm not aware of any issues with Focusrite interfaces right now. We did some testing with them a little while back, so they should be okay. 

If you're in a state where you can find a difference between the two apps, if you could provide a video showing the difference and your audio preferences per each app, that would be helpful. 

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I just started having the same problem - no latency with my keyboard controlling TruePianos before Version 2020.08 (Build 100, 64 bit).  Now I get upwards of 1 sec latency if there's a plugin in the Master Bus (I have LP MB there), and no noticable latency if I turn the plugin off.   I can press a key on my keyboard with normal pressure and easily raise my hand 8 inches off before the note sounds.

Here are my audio settings - both before and after the 2020.08 update.

image.thumb.png.cf3aeb40976a4817a29c216f3d706b76.png

Please believe that I changed no settings since the 2020.08 update.  While the workaround is straightforward - disable the plugin while recording - the situation is unacceptable. 

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Some plug-ins designed for mastering have inherently high latency and shouldn't be used while recording.
Which plug-in is it?

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@Scott Abbey can you share your project file with us so we can check it?
There have been no changes that could have affected latency like that. Did you try reverting to the last release to verify that this is a new issue?
LP MB has some delay but nothing close to 1 second so there is something else going on.

Another thing to check. What is the ThreadSchedulingModel variable in preferences | Configuration file set to? 

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On 8/9/2020 at 10:00 PM, Ron Benvenisti said:

OMG! You are correct sir! This is a show stopper! I don't have problems with controller latency anymore. I was overjoyed until now my VST's are taking a half a second from keypress to audio! THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED ASAP! PRETTY PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Any ideas? I now have to use my VSTs on a different less powerful machine sending MIDI there with NO LATENCY and recording back into Cakewalk via ADAT.  😓

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Posted (edited)

I believe I have figured out what was going on.

On this project I had about 4 Waves plug-ins for vocals and, two plugins for each of two audio tracks.

I haven't tested exactly which plugin might be the culprit as I setup a vocal chain for my wife, and I don't want to screw around with that because it is tweaked to perfection. Everything is ready for her vocal and I'm done.

I made another copy of that project and deleted all the audio tracks and, no midi latency.

So it must have been one of the plugins. I will research that later. Fortunately, for this project I was able to use the synths I needed on my Sonic-Core machine as standalones. The SC box is connected via MIDI, ADAT and audio. with both machines clocked. I think I just never noticed it before because when I record her, I disable the VSTs and just give her a little reverb on her bus. That's because when I have all the VSTs running in her FX chain, there is latency which makes it impossible for her to sing. 

After she's done her best take (I rarely have to touch her vocals), I turn the chain on and we can hear her blissful voice, and I can then mix and master. 

My theory is that some audio VST is causing the MIDI problem.  I'm going to spend some time on tracking that down after I finish this project.  At that time, I will post exactly which one(s) I found. I suspect it is in her vocal chain, which is turned off when I do my MIDI stuff and lay out those tracks before the vocals go on. This time I had it on to do some MIDI touch-ups with a flute and celeste here and there and must have forgot to turn it off. I know it's a long story but  I'm sure the solution will be short.

The bottom line is it is not a Cakewalk problem but some wayward audio VST which I recently installed several.

I greatly appreciate all your input on this head scratcher!

Edited by Ron Benvenisti

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Posted (edited)

Since I cannot see in Cakewalk I made a list of plugins I use to keep track of latency
C1 Compressor Comp & Gate: 0 Comp-Gate & Comp SC: 340
C4 Multiband Compressor 64
H-Comp Hybrid Compressor 64
H-EQ Hybrid Equalizer 65
L1 Ultramaximizer 64
MV2 64
PS22 Stereo Maker Split / X-Split: 4 Spread: 2
Renaissance Axx 64
Renaissance Compressor 64
UltraPitch 8239
Waves Tune LT 3072
Waves Tune 3072
SSL E-Channel 1
SSL G-Channel 1
SSL G-Master Buss Comp 3
API 560 65
Manny Marroquin Delay 64
Manny Marroquin Distortion 128
Manny Marroquin Reverb 1
Manny Marroquin Tone Shaper 2968
Manny Marroquin Triple D 129
Kramer HLS Channel 161
Kramer Master Tape 44.1 kHz: 59 48 kHz: 64
PuigTec EQs 149
Maserati ACG 64
Maserati HMX 1
Maserati GTi 197
CLA Guitars 44.1 kHz: 100 48 kHz: 106
L3-LL Ultramaximizer 64
L3 Multimaximizer 44.1 kHz: 3528 48 kHz: 3840
L3 Ultramaximizer 44.1 kHz: 3528 48 kHz: 3840
L3-LL Multimaximizer 64
NLS Non-Linear Summer 4
Renaissance Channel 65
L2 Ultramaximizer 64
Morphoder 639

This is all mine with non-zero latency.
This is all on Waves site for the plugins or bundles even, easy to take notes.

Latency is calculated as Cakewalk is to run transport, every time, how biggy would it be to just do like StudioOne - have a field in gui, and update with what pdc is used? That is how much tracks with zero latency are delayed and thereby all tracks as total.
It would help immensely.


I doubt it's more than one manhour to do this.

Edited by LarsF

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17 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

@Scott Abbey can you share your project file with us so we can check it?
There have been no changes that could have affected latency like that. Did you try reverting to the last release to verify that this is a new issue?
LP MB has some delay but nothing close to 1 second so there is something else going on.

Another thing to check. What is the ThreadSchedulingModel variable in preferences | Configuration file set to? 

Where do I find the Prefs file?

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Funny thing. If I delete the synth tracks and then recreate them, there's no latency. Profit.

Not so fast! I save it, fine. I save, exit and reload it and BOOM, it's back.  Weird. 

In any case these are the VSTs:

Vocal Chain VSTs:

Antares  Mic Mod EFX
Ozone Imager
ERA 4 Plosive Remover
Waves DeBreath Mono
Waves DeEsser Stereo
Waves CLA Vocals
Waves Vocal Rider Stereo

Audio Instrument Tracks (2) Both Have:

Soundspot Propane
Voxengo Span 2.9

So, I guess once I have the MIDI parts done (and hope I save and not exit or CBL doesn't crash, which it very rarely does) I'll just freeze the synth output audio.

If I want to add some more synth stuff, I'll just make new tracks and freeze the audio.

It's a bit of a hassle but that's what I have to do.

The question now is: Why when I add MIDI there's no problem. When I save exit and reload, the latency returns, how does that happen and what is the cause?  I don't recall this happening with previous releases.


 

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