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Jesse Screed

Is freewill a hoax?

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55 minutes ago, Jesse Screed said:

I'm so glad you didn't back away.

Without diverse ideas we will never come to an understanding.

The key to communication is learning to speak other people's language.

¡Si! 

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33 minutes ago, SteveStrummerUK said:

A timely haiku ...

 

 

The free will of a

Mod will soon close down this fred

In before the lock

¡Si también!  😁

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On 3/14/2020 at 1:32 AM, Tezza said:

Until a car slams into you or your head explodes from brain stroke or you are raped or stabbed or some other life changing event occurs to you that you had no choice or control over whatsoever.

There is no free will, and you wouldn't want it even if it was possible for humans to achieve it, which it is not.

Humans are the most indoctrinated species that has ever breathed life on this planet. From the moment you are spat out of mummy's tummy, the brainwashing begins and doesn't stop until you die and I'm pretty sure you don't get any say in that either.

 

 

This seems as if you are referring to control not free will. I could be wrong. How do you classify indoctrination? Training for adulthood is not indoctrination.

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Posted (edited)

This forum is often censored. It has rules that state that certain subjects may not be discussed and individuals among the participants who sometimes feel the need to be offended on behalf of others (even if the others in question are not offended) and call in the censors, so I'd say debating the notion of whether or not freewill exists is pretty much redundant.

Edited by paulo
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Back to Hume's point: the fact that 99.99% of people choose not to excersise it does not mean that free will does not exist.  Neither does the fact that things happen which are beyond one's control. 

The existentialist position is summed up as "man's existence preceeds his esscence."  My cat here is a predetermined being.  He is a hunter and a carnivore.  He can not choose otherwise.  In fact, it would be harmful to him if he could.  Despite the fact that he has a ready source of food available for the taking that he need do no work for, he still exhibits predatory behavior and will still hunt down and kill things. 

I, on the other hand, can be a hunter or a vegan.  I can even be one thing one day and another the next. If a debilitating health condition forces me to abandon a long held career,  I can allow it to devastate me emotionally and psychologically  or I can view it as an opportunity to grow.

If the cat (assuming his natural state without the human intervening to do the deed for him) can no longer hunt, he dies. That simple. 

Back to Neal Peart's point: even if you do not choose to exercise your free will, that in and of itself is a choice.  We really have no choice but to choose.  One way or another. 

As Sarte put it: "man is condemned to be free."

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Posted (edited)

A Haiku (I'm just freestylin' right now)

IF I thought like you

The world would suck eggs and die

Nothing to see here

😀

Edited by Jesse Screed
forgot the smiley face

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1 hour ago, Byron Dickens said:

"man is condemned to be free."

Very good!

I still have a hard time pronouncing phenomenology.  It is a very big word, and so objectively subjective.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, DeeringAmps said:

th_popcorncat.gif

Is this the cat that controls the internet, or the one that is nuking us?

Why does he(?) eat so fast but the tub never gets empty?

Oh Mio Oh Myo

Edited by Jesse Screed
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1 hour ago, Jesse Screed said:

Is this the cat that controls the internet

If I told you, he'd have to, well you know....

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On 3/15/2020 at 4:38 PM, Jesse Screed said:

Cats rule the internet?

Obviously!  They keep stepping on my key board.

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Posted (edited)

I'm exercising free will at the moment, by not getting banned due to my beliefs.   You have the free will to buy our CD's, by the way.  

Edited by michaelhanson

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7 hours ago, michaelhanson said:

Obviously!  They keep stepping on my key board.

Then, when they think you're not looking...  They post in your Facebook account! 

Cats-CatUsingLaptop.gif

😆

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Posted (edited)
On 3/14/2020 at 3:49 PM, Tezza said:

You may have your view of the world as a utopian garden of eden adorned by selfless humans because that has been your experience, I would think it would be a sheltered one. Or it may be that it is just a delusion you have created for yourself so you can feel good about the world and your place in it. You see what you want to see. You might not even be aware you have created this delusion.

 

Can you actually show (copy and paste) in my writing where I said that the world is a "utopian garden of eden"?  I never said or implied that, those are YOUR words.  Look, if you want to debate something, at least debate fairly and don't make up quotes that the other person didn't say.  At least make an attempt to understand what the other person is saying before reacting.   If you don't understand what someone is actually saying, how is it possible to agree or disagree?  

I said very clearly there is some free will in some people.  Maybe you've had experience (when you speak of your own experience you sound a lot more down to earth and reasonable) of people who have been very self-destructive, I certainly know people like that as well.  I know many people who also strive to live up to their potential--creative, ethical, emotional, moral, artistic, spiritual.  The world is neither all good nor all bad because within every single person is light and dark, we can CHOOSE to evolve and grow and mature and integrate, or we can CHOOSE to self-destruct in self-pity, negative emotions, scapegoating,  bad habits, etc.   I'm not saying that anything is easy, just saying it's possible.   And if you've spent time helping people in Rehab, I'd think you of all people would believe that if a person sincerely wants to help himself (herself) then others might be able to offer help as well.  Is not that free will?   Sometimes it's difficult to ascertain the difference within one's own psyche between "I can't" and "I won't").   Human psychology is complex, an amalgamation of so many things--biology, genetics, evolution, culture, family life, parenting, education, personal insight, trauma, people in one's life who've demonstrated courage, love and empathy,--and one's own hunger for discovering what is true, beautiful and good.  I try to see the world in two distinct ways, neither one any more real than the other:  How the world factually is, and how it ought to be.  If we only see the world as it factually is we can sink easily into despair.  If we only see the world as it ought to be we can become inaccurately judgemental and cynical.  Best to  do both in my opinion.  

Does not some kind of human volition, or will, enter into all this?  Does not some degree of decision and choice have a mighty (but not absolute!) impact on the quality of one's life?  Yes, of course there is good luck and bad luck that we have no control over.  But good luck and bad luck cannot explain why one person achieves a certain amount of happiness and success and another person shuts down and gives up?  It's a bit more complicated than that, yes?

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited by jsg

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Posted (edited)

Deleted due to poor taste in humor by my own standards which are pretty low already. 

 

Edited by Starise

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On 3/15/2020 at 12:51 PM, Byron Dickens said:

Back to Hume's point: the fact that 99.99% of people choose not to excersise it does not mean that free will does not exist.  Neither does the fact that things happen which are beyond one's control. 

The existentialist position is summed up as "man's existence preceeds his esscence."  My cat here is a predetermined being.  He is a hunter and a carnivore.  He can not choose otherwise.  In fact, it would be harmful to him if he could.  Despite the fact that he has a ready source of food available for the taking that he need do no work for, he still exhibits predatory behavior and will still hunt down and kill things. 

I, on the other hand, can be a hunter or a vegan.  I can even be one thing one day and another the next. If a debilitating health condition forces me to abandon a long held career,  I can allow it to devastate me emotionally and psychologically  or I can view it as an opportunity to grow.

If the cat (assuming his natural state without the human intervening to do the deed for him) can no longer hunt, he dies. That simple. 

Back to Neal Peart's point: even if you do not choose to exercise your free will, that in and of itself is a choice.  We really have no choice but to choose.  One way or another. 

As Sarte put it: "man is condemned to be free."

Yep!

 

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