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Max Arwood

Help - audio dropouts

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- Didn't want to post in Kevin Smith's thread.

I was running smoothly in Win7 with some help by Mathew Sorrels. Then, we got the ASIO update.  Dropouts started with the ASIO update and continued through the next update.  I waited until a second update before I decided to post this, hoping it would be resolved.  Since things were not going so good with the ASIO update in Win7, I decided to upgrade to Win 10.  I could also keep the Cakewalk updates going and hoped that this would help.  Since the ASIO and the Win 10 upgrade, I have had multiple crashes daily, and can't play projects that worked fine before these 2 upgrades. I have an older i7 2700 Studio Cat computer.  I also have an older sound card.

I have turned off and tweaked everything in Win 10 I could find to do.

 

Latency monitoring - 

Current interrupt to process latency 58.-79 then bounces to  100+every few seconds

Highest measured is 326

ISR routine exception time 86.59

Highest reported DPC routine execution time 251

Total hard pagefault count 377
 

Any help would be appreciated - Thanks,

Max Arwood

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There could be trouble there. That's a whole lotta pagefaultin'. I just ran Latency Mon to get some comparison and while most of my numbers were similar, my pagefaults were 3.

In order for us to help you better, we need you to click on the other tabs.

Under "Drivers," click on the column header to sort by Highest execution (ms) and tell us what the first couple of driver names are and what the execution times are.

Under Processes, click on Hard pagefaults and tell us what are giving you all those hard pagefaults. Those are a big red flag.

If you could tell us how much RAM you have and what your HD config is (SSD, spinny, what's where) that would be helpful. I put mine in my sig.

Also, Starship Krupa-fy your Windows Defender with that folder exclusion thing I posted.

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It might help other advise you if you listed What your audio interface was. Saying  it’s older doesn’t help much. Did it have drivers that are 100% made for windows 10?

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#2 Post
Windows 10 Pro 1909 build 18363 (x64)
ASUSTeK Computer P8Z68-V PRO GEN3
Intel i7-2600k @ 3.40GHz (GEN2)
Logical Processors 8
Ram 20455 MB total
Hard Drive seagate SSD 2tb (boot drive)

Controlled Folder Access is off.  Do I need to turn it on?

12 Hours running - Hard Page Faults
Cakewalk 78958 (not playing anything)
NVidia 72116 
mspeng 6208(Windows Defender - It turned itself back on)
Explorer 1398
svchost 623
system 576
smartscreen 401 (Windows Defender)
svchost 116
svchost 100
svchost 84

Drivers Highest execution (ms)
echo24.sys 0.118599
classpnp.sus .079784
scsiport.sys .049376
agd.sys .031917
storahci.sys .031917
postcls.sys .031382

Drivers - highest IRS count (12 Hours Idle-only thing active - Macrium nightly backup)
Wdf01000.sys  47076
echo24 (Sound card) 46467
dxkrnl.sys 7182
usbport.sys 1795
mrccbt.sys 905 (Macrium Reflect)
mrigflt.sys 420(Macrium image gardian-turned off?)


--------------------------------
Reset latency monitor then played a 2 min song - Hard Page Faults list
Cakewalk Hard Page Faults is 342 
svhost 56
chrome 6
chrome 7
 

Reset latency monitor again played a 30sec of a song - Hard Page Faults
Runtime broker 63
Cakewalk 40
Chrome 7

Reset latency monitor again played a 30sec of a song - Hard Page Faults
Cakewalk 33
searchprotocolhost 12
explorer 5
chrome 2
 

Thanks,

Max Arwood

 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, John Vere said:

It might help other advise you if you listed What your audio interface was. Saying  it’s older doesn’t help much. Did it have drivers that are 100% made for windows 10?

No, audio driver is windows 7 - no updates - no support.  It is a 64bit driver.  Should I tell windows to use win 7 compatibility on the audio driver?     (Can't  - it is a  sys file.)

Edited by Max Arwood

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Removed the newest NVidia drivers.  That did help some.  Still short of power to use Cakewalk with a few plugins.

Max Awood

 

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Run Latency Mon right after you boot up.  No Cakewalk running, no recording interface attached, etc.   Just basic PC with Windows.   See if Latency Mon shows any problems.  If it does you need to get that corrected before attacking any other (if there is other) DAW dropout issues.  

One issue is NVIDIA.  EVERY PC that I've had and tested for DAW work had dropouts with NVIDIA Video.  My own,  the many Dell's that I do field testing for, others on this forum.    On my DAW desktop If I use the Intel CPU Video or an AMD Radeon video card there are no dropouts.    On the Dell test PC's (mostly laptops) if I disable the NVIDIA and force them to use the Intel CPU video there are no problems.   The Intel CPU video is more than adequate for DAW work.

 

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Yes NVidia all gone using windows built-in driver.  With a clean boot  - Different things will end up showing Hard Page fault. One time it will be the windows virus msmpeng program on top next time securityhealthhost , next time searchprotocolhost , tiworker , next time nothing??   It seems like any program I load will cause hard page faults. 

I did memtest 2x both time all ok. What do I do now?

Thanks,

Max Arwood

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I use the built in Windows defender (and Malwarebytes) and that does not cause any problems on my DAW Desktop or Laptop.

 

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Passei por esse problema e ainda o tenho de forma amenizada.

1 - Minhas configs estão listadas em meus comentários.

2 - Instalei o Asio4All e consegui melhorar bastante meus dropouts. Ainda são constantes e, de quando em quando, tenho que usar o config da minha placa para reiniciar.

3 - Já relatei ao suporte esses problemas, mas não chegamos a uma solução.

4 - A questão de DAW, ASIO e interface é um gande problema agravado pelo Windows 10 para algumas interfaces antigas.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/5/2020 at 12:06 PM, Jack Stoner said:

Run Latency Mon right after you boot up.  No Cakewalk running, no recording interface attached, etc.   Just basic PC with Windows.   See if Latency Mon shows any problems.  If it does you need to get that corrected before attacking any other (if there is other) DAW dropout issues.  

One issue is NVIDIA.  EVERY PC that I've had and tested for DAW work had dropouts with NVIDIA Video.  My own,  the many Dell's that I do field testing for, others on this forum.    On my DAW desktop If I use the Intel CPU Video or an AMD Radeon video card there are no dropouts.    On the Dell test PC's (mostly laptops) if I disable the NVIDIA and force them to use the Intel CPU video there are no problems.   The Intel CPU video is more than adequate for DAW work.

 

C’mon, i run nVidia drivers on a desktop and a laptop.  I have disabled the nVidia hdmi audio, the nVidia experience and whatever else i can during fresh installs. No problems.

Latency Mon is green, on both.

I can record a concert (3 x 40 mn ) without problems on the laptop.

Perhaps its a little too general to blame nVidia per se ? Not looking for a dispute,  just saying.  

FYI, The Echo web page states that they do NOT support W10 - the problem is perhaps there...........

https://echoaudio.com/pages/windows-drivers

cheers,

Jerry

Edited by Jeremy Oakes

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Jeremy,  my NVIDIA experience on many different PC's were all the same.  Some may work OK but none that I found.

There was a thread a while back on the gearslutz forum about dropouts and general consensus was avoid NVIDIA.

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Max, I'm here if you need assistance.   😉

 

Nvidia video cards can work fine in a DAW.

They can also cause high DPC Latency.

ie:  When the RTX-2xxx series were first released, they were causing high DPC Latency.

 

BTW, This issue isn't limited to Nvidia.

The latest v1909 Win10 update (with updated drivers for UHD-630 graphics) is causing high DPC Latency.

 

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Max, if the upgrade install of Win10 is a "mess", I'd start with a clean install of Win10.

Yes, it's a pain to go thru... but well worth it for a rock-solid foundation.

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I think I would like to dual boot win10. keep the upgrade and start in another “fresh install“. What is the easiest way to do add the second partition and install win 10 again?  Fresh?’ I have 500 Tb to work with that could be allocated. 

 

This way I could see if the install is bauched or if the audio card needs to go. 

 

Thanks,

Max Arwood

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Posted (edited)

Hi Max,

I would do the clean install of Win10 on a separate physical drive.

Much easier to "clean-up" (once you've fully migrated)...

Edited by Jim Roseberry

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Posted (edited)

So...

You have an older, Echo interface (Last drivers for Win 7/8, correct?).  It was working fine until a recent CW update....

Updating O.S. to Win 10 increased instability.  No tweaks have fixed the problems so far...

Seems to me you have two options:

1) You have Macrium installed.  Assuming it's for doing system images/backups, and that you have been using it....  Use Macrium to restore back to a point where it was working fine -- then stop running anymore CW updates.  You could probably update to Win 8.1, but who knows if everything will remain as stable.

2) Get a newer audio interface and update to Win 10 to fully support it.

Edited by JonD

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I did a full image of my drive before I moved to win 10.  I also have 2 6tb seagate running.  Back up - Oh yes Macrium!  I would not do without it!  I am going to start in a clean install this weekend. If that does not work. I will have to shop for a new audio box of some type.  I love all the cakewalk updates!  
 

Thanks,

Max Arwood

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