Jump to content
cclarry

MIDI 2.0 Specs Confirmed

Recommended Posts

Below is part of an email that went out to MIDI Association members on Mon Jan 27th.
**********************************

MIDI 2.0 Adopted at Winter NAMM 2020!

Hi ,

At the Annual Meeting of the MIDI Manufacturers Association during Winter NAMM 2020,  MMA members in attendance unanimously completed the adoption of the core MIDI 2.0 specifications including five core documents.   

  • MIDI Capability Inquiry (Update)
  • Specification for Universal MIDI Packet (UMP) Format and MIDI 2.0 Protocol
  • Common Rules for MIDI CI Profiles
  • Common Rules for MIDI-CI Property Exchange
  • Property Exchange Foundational Resources and Basic Resources

At the annual meeting afternoon session, there were demonstrations by Korg, Roland and Yamaha of prototype MIDI 2.0 devices sending and receiving MIDI 2.0 protocol messages.

Details about MIDI 2.0™, MIDI-CI, Profiles and Property Exchange

Edited by TheSteven
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, simon said:

I wonder if this is all too little, too late ?

Yeah...We're all thinking that now...until all the new and shiny 2.0 compatible gear and plugins start showing up . Then BOOM the GAS kicks in. ...and just when you think you've got it under control,  CCLarry pops out of the shadows with a ridiculous deal that you can't pass up.... There's no turning back after that. 😄

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, simon said:

I wonder if this is all too little, too late ?

JMO: If all the people who (1) equated MIDI with song files that could be downloaded in massive numbers and played in media players on sound cards and then (2) declared "MIDI is dead" when audio files could be downloaded in massive numbers take to social media platforms to condemn MIDI 2.0, I don't think the people who actually use MIDI for their creative efforts will be able to counteract the negative PR.  I, for one, hope that massive downloading of MIDI files is dead, that nobody tries to make all existing on-line MIDI files 2.0-compliant, and that "all those people" don't learn of MIDI 2.0.  :P 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, simon said:

I wonder if this is all too little, too late ?

We are all still overwhelmingly using MIDI 1.0 on a daily basis. Any improvement to this protocol is welcomed. And that's what MIDI 2.0 does. Along with new features along with that I think it's a win for everyone. 

Did it take way too long? Good things are worth the wait!! : ) 

 

@TheStevenThanks for the link 

Edited by Grem
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Grem said:

We are all still overwhelmingly using MIDI 1.0 on a daily basis. Any improvement to this protocol is welcomed. And that's what MIDI 2.0 does. Along with new features along with that I think it's a win for everyone. 

 

I totally agree - and it helped revolutionise electronically produced music. In the intervening 40 years (!!!) manufacturers and software vendors are using their own, diverse, workarounds.   It's possible that they are too late to the party ?

 

 

Edited by simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll need to read over this. Should be backwards compatible. 

Yamaha had their version of midi, Roland had theirs. Will this help to pull the standards together better?

I'm a little afraid to look at it for fear my eyes will glaze over.  I'll look anyways. If you don't hear back from me I nodded off.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Starise said:

I'll need to read over this. Should be backwards compatible. 

Yamaha had their version of midi, Roland had theirs. Will this help to pull the standards together better?

I'm a little afraid to look at it for fear my eyes will glaze over.  I'll look anyways. If you don't hear back from me I nodded off.

yes - kind of backwards compatible - but not over 5 pin DIN for example.  A midi 2.0 device can detect a mid 1.0 device and allow for it (kinda).  But it's a protocol specification rather than an actual physical transfer medium.  

MIDI 1.0 was (is!) amazing and universally accepted, even though, as you say, there were 'minor' tweaks that manufacturers could do.  Glad to see timestamping in there as a 'standard' for example.  Just I think they've missed the boat.

International standards are amazing and to be encouraged...we wouldn't be where we are in the 21st century without them (the web-tcp/ip-the metric system-piano keyboards etc etc) - it's just they are about 25 years too late.  

We shall see.......

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're using soft synths.. and if you need higher resolution that what MIDI 1.0 provides, you would use automation instead of controller events anyway.

It will still be a while before CbB and third party VSTi plugins use MIDI 2.0 (which both will have to to make MIDI 2.0 worth while)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, simon said:

yes - kind of backwards compatible - but not over 5 pin DIN for example.  A midi 2.0 device can detect a mid 1.0 device and allow for it (kinda).  But it's a protocol specification rather than an actual physical transfer medium.  

MIDI 1.0 was (is!) amazing and universally accepted, even though, as you say, there were 'minor' tweaks that manufacturers could do.  Glad to see timestamping in there as a 'standard' for example.  Just I think they've missed the boat.

International standards are amazing and to be encouraged...we wouldn't be where we are in the 21st century without them (the web-tcp/ip-the metric system-piano keyboards etc etc) - it's just they are about 25 years too late.  

We shall see.......

 

Well so I did the speed read of the protocol and I agree it's exciting for sure. A few things I would love to see. A DAW control surface that instantly sets itself up to every control in the DAW, maybe a  hub that converts some devices from midi 1.0 to midi 2.0 (I kinda doubt that one.) Way more than 128 velocity layers ( this one is likely). 

I am very glad I haven't bought that Komplete Kontrol yet......the grass is probably greener in this case. NAMM 2021-2022 could yield some amazing capable new midi gear!! MIDI 2.0 cerebral cortex implants are probably a few years off yet.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Starise said:

 A few things I would love to see. A DAW control surface that instantly sets itself up to every control in the DAW, maybe a  hub that converts some devices from midi 1.0 to midi 2.0 (I kinda doubt that one.) Way more than 128 velocity layers ( this one is likely). 

a midi 2 device should "adjust" when they 'sense' a midi 1 device so a hub shouldn't be necessary.

Velocity has had a massive upgrade - from 7-bit to 16-bit but that's only part of the story - it also allows for 'meta data' such as articulation or tuning - or whatever.

Everything that has been done looks amazing - and is exactly what you would want....but........

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"the biggest advance in music technology in  decades" does not seem like a statement made in reality.

Recording "in the box"  

Modeling

Sampeling

Software emulation of complex hardware systems (think AXE FX, Kemper, Helix)

All come to mind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see sampling changing much with 2.0. Very few libraries go to the limit of what MIDI is capable of now. Synths on the other hand could greatly benefit from it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure that an extensive MIDI 2.0 discussion belongs in "Deals," but that seems to be where thread currently exists. So . . .

Quote

MIDI 2.0 Means Two-way MIDI Conversations

MIDI 1.0 messages went in one direction: from a transmitter to a receiver. MIDI 2.0 is bi-directional and changes MIDI from a monologue to a dialog. For example, with the new MIDI-CI (Capability Inquiry) messages, MIDI 2.0 devices can talk to each other, and auto-configure themselves to work together. They can also exchange information on functionality, which is key to backward compatibility—MIDI 2.0 gear can find out if a device doesn't support MIDI 2.0, and then simply communicate using MIDI 1.0.

This raises a red flag for me. Though it is technically true, it is somewhat misleading. MIDI 1.0 messages are indeed one way; however, MIDI 1.0 communication can certainly be two-way. It just typically uses two one-way cables. 

Simple example: With WebMIDI and MIDI 1.0, one user of the same line of gear I use has created a website to poll midi ports and update firmware on MIDI 1.0 gear.

Yes, the gear is connected with two one-way cables, but the communication [handshaking] that allows for the OS to be updated is definitely two-way.

Notice, the above PR doesn't say, MIDI 2.0 messages are bi-directional.

Since this seems to be a major premise, I am concerned that existing two-way MIDI 1.0 communication might very well be undone, made null-and-void, broken, etc. because of what seems to be a misleading premise.  Just a red flag at this point--I remember how the developers at Casio messed up with their misinterpretation of "F7" in sysex communication/handshaking. With the CI model as shown and the misleading PR, it is not clear that developers and manufacturers won't make even worse goofs. If they think that two-way communication didn't happen with MIDI 1.0, they might make it no longer work--because they were misled.

Just a small red flag at this point.

BTW, from what I can see  so far, the MIDI 2.0 and MIDI CI models / environment / protocol / what-ever-you-want-to-call it use packets. So far, I haven't gotten to the point where parallel handling of messages is described, but that should be amazing, esp. with time-stamped packets being passed around. I can't help but wonder how messages received later but with earlier time-stamps will be handled.  Looking forward to reading more!!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, User 905133 said:

I am not sure that an extensive MIDI 2.0 discussion belongs in "Deals," but that seems to be where thread currently exists. So . . .

Agreed but here it is.

If you're curious there was an earlier post & discussion on MIDI 2.0 in the Coffee House forum section back when the proposed spec was announced. Many of the same topics/issues debated there along with additional information.

 

 

Edited by TheSteven
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/31/2020 at 4:09 PM, simon said:

I wonder if this is all too little, too late ?

Common rules is enougth , trust me ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...