fret_man

If I already have the RX8 Groove3 tutorial(s), someone pleasee tell me why I should pay $38 for this.

+1. Their Taylor, nylon, and 12-string are all great, too. They had a great sale last June, so hopefully that'll happen again.

Hi Doug, in my opinion AmpleSounds and OrangeTree have much better guitar sounds. I suggest waiting until one of them to go on sale.

... and he needs to have a 50% off sale.

Yes, I have been naughty or nice!

And in case anyone's curious, the EQ I came up with looks like this:

So, I recorded two channels: 1 thru a mic and 2 thru DI. I played each note from the lowest to the highest (~3.5 octaves)and measured the RMS of each channel for each note. By comparing these I generated an EQ curve to convert the DI sound to be more like the mic and it sounds GREAT! The DI was a little boxy sounding (which the EQ gloriously fixed) and the DI seems to impart some sort of compression effect because it's notes don't die down as quickly. It's probably not the transducer per se but more due to sound transmission thru the maple wood, bracing, etc. Still, it is a highly useable signal and will definitely solve my tracking issues. I'm glad I brought up my frustrations because y'all made some very good suggestions. Even tho' I use Studio One now, the Cakewalk Forum has always been a great place to stay and share. Thanks!

Thank you, Greg. I really, really appreciate your responses to my tirade above. I don't want to be that guy who goes off halfcocked with unwarranted complaints. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations but guitar VIs are so good now-a-days that I figured Mandolins would be there as well. But I'm thinking not quite yet. I made a few edits above based on what I've learned from playing around some more with the new file I recently downloaded. That helped a lot. I admit I need to learn Kontact much better.

Thanks, Matthew Sorrels. Yes, I think #079 is correct. According to their Acoustic Slide manual there are two ways to do this: This is achieved by two methods. Firstly, you can right-click on any automatable knob and use the MIDI learn option to assign the MIDI CC #. The second method is to manually drag a MIDI CC # from the listing of CCs in KONTAKT's automation section on KONTAKT's left sidebar onto one of the knobs on Steel Strings' interface. This is accessed in the "Auto", then "Midi Automation" tab. I wish this was in the Mandolin manual as well.

FYI, I found out it IS possible to specify the fret position by using MIDI CC. Unfortunately, I have yet to find out which CC. I requested a list of the various CC options but haven't seen any yet. It is not in the user guide.

Thanks, Jerry. The Schertler is a sound body / microphone pickup that sounds very realistic live. No piezo quack here! Still, I'll look into the IR idea. I didn't know those existed for mandolin modelling.

Thanks, guys. I forgot my mandolin has a built-in Schertler pickup. I should have remembered because I paid a pretty penny for that and it sounds fantastic live! Will give that a shot. Also, I noticed that the longer I sit there mucking with things the more I hear problems and get more frustrated. Gotta take a step away more often.

Firstly, I apologize for this long message, but I need to share my frustration recording mandolin. I have a very difficult time tracking myself due to having no soundproofed rooms available. And now that it's nice outside it is even worse with dogs, kids, street noises, rain, wind, etc outside. I've tried RX8 and have had some success but it takes a long, long time to get a result that's clean and not all phasey/watery sounding. So I have switched to just go ahead and play the piece using Midi-Guitar or Melodyne to convert it to MIDI. This captures my timing and dynamics, but I have to edit it to restore hammer-ons, pull-offs, and set where on the fretboard I'm playing. Sometimes the MIDI conversion misses some of the faster trills so I have to restore those as well. Lots of work but I can do it MUCH faster than waiting for quiet to record clean takes and/or using RX8. So now it comes down to finding a very good mandolin VSTi. My vision of a good clean mandolin sound can be heard here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHMjGQ3iNAM. Yes, he plays it too fast - showing off, I guess, cuz he can. But he has a great sound. I favor the sound of archtop "bluegrass-style" mandolins as opposed to the classical "potato bug" bowl-back models. Those seem much too shrill and strident to me and is what I expect to hear when the Sheriff walks out of the saloon onto a dusty main street to stare down his ugly nemesis in a cheap Western movie. Flat-top Celtic models are better. But archtops have that magic woodie quality to them while the other models are too steely. So that's the desired sound I'm looking for. Also, the only fret buzz you hear in that video is on the low G string. Us players try very hard to not get that. The same is true with fret noise as the fingers slide up/down and note release noises (which is really another form of fret buzz). It is important to me to not have those if I don't want them. My musical style swings from Classical, Bluegrass, Folk, New Americana, Classic Rock, World Music, ... I guess quite a range there. My current projects are mostly duet & ensemble instrumentals so realism is important since the mix is so sparse. So, armed with those goals, I've listed all the mandolin VSTi's I've found below: https://8dio.com/instrument/advanced-guitar-series-mandolin-for-kontakt/ ($118). This IS a potato bug and is very thin sounding. It may be a great classical model, but not for me. 👎 https://www.vir2.com/instruments/acou6tics/ ($400 for 6string, 12string, classical, guitalele, Uke, Mandolin). May be quite the deal but it doesn't sound very good to me. Again, a very thin sound. 👎 https://www.indiginus.com/the-mandolin ($59). Sounds like another potato bug (even though their picture shows an archtop) for cheap western movie music. 👎 https://www.boldersounds.com/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=122 ($60). Sounds passable. I've heard nice things about his stuff so, lucky for me, I picked this up on sale a few days ago. 👍 https://www.orangetreesamples.com/products/evolution-acoustic-bundle ($790 for Songwriter, Flatpick, Classical, Steel Strings, Jumbo 12, BG Banjo, Mandolin). Again, sounds promising. The banjo does, too. 👍 My conclusions after playing with these last two are: BolderSounds Pure Mandolin: This is not as tinny as the bowl-backs in 1, 2, 3 above, but not as full/woodie sounding as OrangeTree's mandolin. The killer for me, though, is the A string pairs are not in tune with each other! They beat against each other no matter which fret you play and reminds me of a new, amateur musician that hasn't developed his ear yet. Sad, as this could have easily been caught and fixed before the sampling session. Also, I am convinced this is an archtop based on the documentation that came with the software, but it sounds like a cheap laminated model. My apologies to the owner but this just doesn't capture the richness these mandolins can have. 👎 Update 2021-4-6: This VSTi contains 3 different instruments: Sustain (with a scripted tremolo), Tremolo (sampled), and Chop Chords. The Tremolo instrument has variable speed, which I like, and, strangely, the mistuned A string pairs don't sound so bad - probably due to the masking effects of all the other stuff happening during the tremolo. So 👍 for their Tremolo instrument! It sounds very natural and is the best I've found so far. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to handle double-stops (2 note chords that are tremolo'd together) very well. It sounds like two mandolins playing and results in lots of busyness. This seems to be true for ALL mandolin VSTi's so far. So that leaves me with OrangeTree's Evolution Mandolin. It is the best of what I've found so far but there are still many problems: It sounds like the action was too low on this mandolin because EVERY NOTE on EVERY STRING has fret buzz. I can minimize this by adjusting the velocity curve in Setup to favor soft and keep all velocities below 50 (which severely limits the dynamics I can achieve), but they're still not gone. Playing up the neck sometimes helps. Since I have to play at such low velocities, I have to turn up the output to restore the volume. This makes other items too loud, so those have to be turned down as well. Lots tweaking is required, but it is still impossible to get a clean sound. Edit: not sure what's happening but the more I use this the less this is an issue for me as long as I adjust the velocity curve to "soft" and play at low velocities. Maybe it was the new files I just re-downloaded? I seem to be making this work. Some of the Round Robin samples still have sympathetic body vibrations even though they are turned off in Setup. Pick noise is a similar story. So is note release noise. Sure wish I could get rid of these but I'd like to keep the Round Robin sample cycles. This seems to be a post-processing editing error. Aarggh... Edit: not all notes have this problem, but some do, and only on some of the Round Robin samples. I wish I could select fretboard location with keyswitches. That's how players play - moving around the fretboard. All I can do is a) force a single fretboard location for the entire song, and b) force which string each note is played on, which gets cumbersome when playing up the neck. That's a lot of manual keyswitch placement but it works. This seems like an oversight to me since much cheaper VSTi have this keyswitched fretboard location feature (like BolderSounds). Edit: Fret Position CAN be selected via MIDI CC command #079. I haven't gotten this to work yet but I'll assume this will do what I want. So I retract this statement. Since I have to play at such reduced velocity I noticed that pick noise does NOT track velocity! This doesn't follow reality. Hit the string hard -> loud pick noise -> loud note volume. I might even consider this a bug rather than a feature. Edit: I'm told pick noise DOES track velocity. Yet I have to reduce Pick Noise even more to maintain balance for me. The fret noise engine is broken. Fret noise occurs when the fingers slide along the lower wound string pairs. It seems there needs to be enough space between the notes before fret noise will be inserted. Ok, I can work around that. Well, when I play a note, then a rest, then play the same note again on the same fret, fret noise is placed in the rest! Guys, there's no finger sliding when you're playing the same note back-back! I think I even heard it when I was playing on the high unwound strings! I just turn this off since it doesn't work the way real life does. Sheesh... Bugs - the worst involves pick modeling, which is a cool concept as it models how close/far the right hand plays to the bridge. Unfortunately, if you enable it, then change your mind and disable it, volume goes away and tonality is very light/brittle. If you go back to enable it, the bug stays. The natural middle position has the same quiet/brittle sound. You have to delete/reload the whole instance of the instrument to restore it. Lesson: don't bother with pick modeling until you're ready to leave it set. Update 2021-4-6: I re-downloaded the library per Greg's suggestion and this problem has gone away! Not sure what happened, but Yay! Hammer-ons and Pull-offs sound artificial and awful. I usually find a way to do without them even though it's not what I want. How could they accept this as OK? Resonance is normally thought of as sympathetic string vibrations. If you play a high D, the low open D string starts vibrating. That's part of the sound of acoustic instruments, but that's not what this is. For OrangeTree, resonance is sounds like the vibrations of the strings behind the bridge and/or behind the nut. Anyone who has done enough recording knows to wind some leather, cotton, or rubberbands thru those strings to dampen their vibrations because mics will definitely pick those up. Why would anyone want to hear those is beyond me. All the players I know take steps to keep them from vibrating. I wish they had modelled the desired sympathetic vibrations instead. So, to summarize, I am somewhat disappointed in OrangeTree. I'll have to wait for Ample Sounds to do their mandolin. They seem to do things mostly right. In the meantime, I'm making due with OrangeTree, working around its short-comings. But I do appreciate an value Greg's responsiveness and activity on his forum. He seems to be one of the good guys. Please let me know if I'm missing something. I would LOVE to get OrangeTree working better.

Well. I was one of those causing the slow downloads. I loaded up on a LOT of instruments.

Ba-ha-ha🤣! I know this is a punch line, but I don't get it.😕

Don't forget their Chinese instruments require iLok.

Will Volumes B and C be free addons?

Right now Orangetree's Evolution Acoustic Bundle is on sale for $ 1,253 789 USD. This is 37% off. Is this the normal bundle selling price or is this "special"? I see they often have BF sales, end-of-year sales, and maybe a summer group buy. I guess my question to the group is: if I don't need this RIGHT NOW, is it still a good time to get this bundle? I've been looking for very good mandolin and banjo instruments. Thanks all!

It appears Addictive Keys got an update.

I like the ability to emulate other playback systems. But I have a mono Avantone which handles much of that need. Still, the other systems would be nice, too. Also, lower latency correction is nice. But those two items are all I would use, I think.

They have an NS10 model so you can make ALL your speakers sound like NS10s. ... No, wait. You wanted it the other way around...

Funny, I only use systemwide Sonarworks with no problems at all. In fact, when I invoke the GUI it fixes samplerate problems for me. I've tried to get Windows to stick to 48ksps but when I close Studio One I can't then run Finale or Youtube. The cursor just spins and spins unless I reboot. However, if I first invoke Sonarworks then Finale and Youtube work just fine. No more rebooting.

SoundID Reference is the new product name. Main features seem to include: Resizable GUI. Includes a dark skin. Ability to apply correction only over a user-defined frequency range. Ability to emulate a variety of playback systems - earbuds, laptops, car, phones, other studio monitors, etc. Ability to specify a target frequency response - not just flat. Lower latency correction filters. GUI is easier to navigate. Very easy to pick any of the +280 headphone models. On the music consumption side, a SoundID app is available to allow users to optimize their own listening experience. Currently only useable on Android phones and Windows/Mac desktops. It is not clear, but it may only work with streaming services, not locally stored mp3s. Upgrade from Reference 4 Speaker & Headphone is $119.

And I bought into the Ample Sound ecosystem....... Perhaps I chose poorly.

I have a current WUP plan and went to Waves Central, saw I have updates, and performed the update. Lots got downloaded. Re-invoked Waves Central. I no longer see any pending updates, but my products still only show 12.0.0. Is this a bug? Anyone seeing 12.7 listed for their products?