TVR PRODUCTIONS

On 12/4/2023 at 2:11 PM, Steve Schultz said:

I am having trouble getting a signal to a midi track using the midisport 4x4.  I am coming out of an old keboard controller into the midisport  and out to the computer using the usb.  Cakewalk recognizes the midisport but no signal.  Am I doing something wrong?

 

My Midisport 4 x 4 works fine here in WIndows 11 and latest CW

On 11/17/2023 at 12:32 PM, John Vere said:

I think you somehow worded that wrong? Or if what you are saying is that generally we should keep updated with both software and operating systems then this is not the case. This is a case of software made for W7, then updated to for  W8 and  W10 ( versions up to 2015)   not running on the a currant OS. 

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I work in Application Support so I completely understand why a software vendor will stop updating older versions for Operating Systems that are not even supported by Microsoft. It is a lose lose. If something does not work, the developers cannot go back to Microsoft to work it out.  They have to abandon it at some point otherwise end users will be complaining that the software no longer works. Not worth it to put up with that.

 

 

 

 

Time moves on.  It doesn't pay for to keep old applications current on an Operating system that is not even supported by Microsoft.  Makes total sense. You might not like the price but hey, I went to Walmart last night and was not thrilled that the mega sized box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal was $6.50!  That is insane. It was $5 a couple of years back. That is nearly 30% more.   Same with Steinberg I guess. 

I would be hesitant to use any reverb in fear of muddying up the sound. plus, wont there be natural reverb in a big room?  I suppose I am thinking too much. My fear is having it sound like Karaoke, which a woman I work with does.  She sings good but it is cheesy to me to have her standing alone in a restaurant on the side of the room while singing to some disco song.  Right now I am recording full songs in Cakewalk to hear how it all blends. Then I will mute my voice, guitar, bass and bass players vocals.  I will see how that works.  I guess the best thing to do is to  go into a studio or other large room and play the backing tracks that I made while we play along. Then, record that with a video camera and get an idea of what people will hear. 

The click track would be for the mellower stuff that would be required in a restaurant of low volume place that does not want dancing. So, something like And I Love Her will have those bongos and claves, They are there but are quiet but I am afraid of straying from them if I don't use the click.  Backing tracks are unforgiving and if anyone falls behind or goes ahead, it is going to sound bad.  I had a disastrous moment when playing bass in a Van Halen tribute band a few years back. I thought it would be great to have that iconic horn intro from Running With the Devil open that song. So, I ripped it from the song.  That sound ends abruptly so I had to come in with the bass intro at that very moment. So, I had to cue myself by adding a 4 click count on one side of the stereo recording that I played from my Minidisc player.  Problem was that those shows were so packed with people and loud that I missed the first click so the sound just ended and there was dead silence.  I came right in but that 1/2 second was embarrassing enough to me to leave it out in the future. Its not fun to worry about the technical stuff while you are playing.  That needs to be done by someone else but I have to pay someone 

The Beatles, as simple as they sound, are anything but.  Since I will play guitar and the other guy plays bass and sings, I would need a click or something on mellow songs like Norwegian Wood. There is no driving rhythm on that song and a few others.  Of course, we could play it as a duo and no backing track but I want the sitar in there.  There are a few songs such as This Boy that have 3 vocals so I would put the George Harrison harmony on the backing so it blends in. Not many people would notice. I wouldn't do this with 5 part harmony Beach Boys songs or even Here There and Everywhere where there is heavy backing vocals. I would not even attempt a harmonizer.  Not all Beatles harmonies are 3rd or 5ths. A song like If I Fell would be a disaster using a vocal pedal.  I would not do anything crazy with harmonies other than the subdued George Harrison vocal that no one will really notice but needs to be there.  Nothing obvious or it would be karaoke.

My thought is that nearly all of the music will be on the multi track.  If we add someone like a percussionist, I can simply turn that track off.  If my friend doesn't show up at all, I can put his bass back in and I would not be screwed. In other words, I would never have to worry about someone not showing up again. I would think the Multitrack recorder should be almost as easy as a CD but am not sure of how good the controls are.  I would hope I could just scroll through songs, one after another.  I would keep it right next to me.   But my big fear is that I can mix something in my house and it would not sound right in the venue.  If those volumes are not balanced when I add me and the bass player, we are stuck with that for the night.  The ability to control each instrument gives me a greater comfort. This all stems from me being a perfectionist, which almost takes the joy of performing.  BTW,  I would not need to  record one track at a time. I am recorded these tracks in my DAW and I could export 4 independent channels simultaneously to 4 tracks on the multitrack.  So, I can perfect them in the DAW and simply send them out to the recorder.  would have 2 bar count in so I could hear the first 4 and then cue the bass player.  I am curious why you bought the Zoom L8.  Did you have the same thoughts as I do?

Thanks for this informative thread. It is timely as I am planning on putting a few different shows that feature myself (guitar) and a friend (bass) with backing tracks that I create from scratch. I do not want it to sound too Karaoke.  So, we are sticking with songs that are not so over the top crazy that would look too weird with two guys up there.  I was going to do it the way I used to do it with a mono track on one side that goes to the PA system and the other side would be a click track that I would hear.  But, I hate the idea of being married to a mix that I made in my basement that may sound way off in  a venue. So, my idea now is to get some type of digital multitrack recorder that  can have separate tracks (drums, piano, synth, backing vox, etc). I could output them in stereo at the venue (the click would go to another bus to my ear phones).  I would then still have the ability to change the volume levels as needed in a particular room.  Has anyone ever tried this. Of course, I would need to make an emergency copy to another device using backing tracks on one side and click onthe other like I used to, in case the multitrack goes kaput during a live show.   Gonna be challenging, especially one songs with a third voice that I will need to record with the backing tracks and having to blend with our two voices.  

That works. I also just cut and paste it but putting the pay head at the exact point at the beginning of the track, click on the track that it is going to and paste.  It will go to the same location

On 8/31/2023 at 6:40 PM, Milton Sica said:

@Morten SaetherThe posting clearly states that there is no roll back version

 

So I think you should EXPLICITLY warn in the disclosure that this version, even though it is an early access version, will not have a reversal.

What is everybody waiting for? A new update?  Is there something wrong with the current build or some major new features coming that I am not aware of? It seems stable to me.

I never mastered any of my songs. I simply made the best mix I could and left it at that. If I wanted to master a song in something like Samplitude, how do I do that?  Do I simply import my mix from Cakewalk into Samplitude?  Do I export individual tracks from Cakewalk and bring them into Samplitude? I think I should be just be using the stereo file but I am not sure.  Thanks for any input.  

I used to have to jump through hoops to send midi from cakewalk to my external Roland XP50 years ago.  The problem was the XP50. I had to go into the midi settings and set it to receive the data over the correct channel.  I would set up so that channel 1 was on midi channel 1. Channel was midi channel 2, etc

9 hours ago, HOOK said:

Yes.  Thank you.  That is turned off.  But what I figured out last night is that this happens in the clips pane, but not in the mixer view.  I CAN shut it off in the mixer view.  But generally, with my work flow, I'm turning monitoring on and off in the clips pane, so it's a bit of a drag.

I have also noticed that it can always turn off in the mixer view. I have always had the same issue

Suite is only $149 for upgrade right now

Korg isn't doing anything. They said that no one else has complained about it. They are suggesting that I uninstall the vst3 and install an older vst2. Somme support, huh?

On the other hand, I submitted the log to Cakewalk last week and also never heard back from them. I dont know how long it usually takes for them to get back to anyone. 

I appreciate the suggestion, but that is just a workaround.  Yes, a workaround that will allow me to  use the projects. But so many of those projects were still in progress, that I would not be able to finish any m1 parts or even alter the lines I played. I would prefer it just to work instead of having to go through all of that.  It doesn’t seem to be too much to ask but Korg should be the one fixing it.  I am not discounting your suggestion.  It would work great if most of the projects were completed but they aren’t. It is like updating an iPhone  to the latest OS and I can no longer test, so I have to roll back to the last iOS, except now, I can only read my tests but cannot write new ones.  Or something like that.

i am confused about why the old projects  do not open if the same korg vst2 is in the sam location.  It should not matter that the new vst3 is in another location if that isn’t included in the project.

On 9/9/2022 at 11:45 PM, Lord Tim said:

Yeah, that's ridiculous. It shouldn't be this hard (and usually isn't for most/all other manufacturers).

If you scroll up to my post a little earlier, my suggestion was to just go back to the old version and freeze it off for now. If you remove all traces of the new VST3 one and install the old one, does that actually work without crashing? I'm not sure if you were clear on that or not. Not a fix but could get you out of trouble temporarily.

 

I want to keep using the vst3. So I opened one project last night in safe mode, bypassed the m1, then replaced them all with the vst3.  It was a pain in the ***** to find the patches (7 of them) but I finally did it.  I don’t understand why it just doesn’t work.  The original dll is in its location and so is the vst 3.  They both should work but since I updated, every project crashes that uses the vst2.  Korg is useless.  I emailed them again yesterday asking them what the hell they are doing?  It’s been a week since they suggested anything.  I submitted the crash log to cakewalk a few days ago and am waiting to hear from them. 

So, after uninstalling everything and re installing the original M1 vst and then updating the new one, here is what I have:

C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\KORG\M1.dll (1/28/2018  version1.8.0)

C:\Program Files\Common Files\KORG\Collection\M1.dll (7/98/2022  version 2.3.3

C:\Program Files (x86)\KORG\KORG Legacy\ M1.dll   (1/28/2018  version1.8.0)

C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3\KORG\Korg.vst3

So, the vst 3 is there in the last folder (which is  a folder that CW scans for plugins.

When I open a new project and want to insert an instrument, I only see M1 vst3.  SO, shouldn't I be able to open an old project, skip all the m1 plugins, then replace them each with the vst3?   I just tried one and it works but of course, it plays Universe, which sounds ridiculous. So, again, I am stuck trying to figure out the sounds that I used.  Why is this so difficult? It is just a simple upgrade of a plugin.

On 9/4/2022 at 11:44 AM, abacab said:

@TVR PRODUCTIONSAfter giving this issue another minute of consideration, I have another question...

When you rolled it back, did you run the old full M1 installer, or just copy the old ".dll" file over the newer one?

I have done so many things, I cannot remember at this point. I absolutely never copied a file. I just leave the files where the installer places them.

I just uninstalled everything. I then reinstalled my original m1.  Old projects work. I then  installed the new one so it is all fresh.  Crash is back. The crash is still pointing to M1.dll, which, according to some, is a vst2. But Korg support themselves say this is what I should be using.  Since I just installed the latest June release of M1, wwhat file should be on my computer and where should it be located? 

I  have not submitted the error log because I do not know where to do that. Last time I tried, it would not let me send a file larger than 2Mb or something like this. 

SO, after all of this, here is my question. After updating to the latest vst3, should my older projects all crash that were created with the vst2 version?  In my mind, I would think they would open as usual (if the old vst2 is still there) and I would have the option "replace vst instrument) and choose the newer m1 vst. But if it crashes instantly, that cannot be done.  I can hold shift down and say NO to all the M1 instances.  At that point, shouldn't I be able to replace the old M1 with the new? That seems logical to me. I would be able to replace it with any other vst instrument so why not the new M1?  Will I lose the actual patch?  That would be a problem.

My biggest question is if everyone else is going through this very thing?  It should behave the same on everyone's computer since it is the same file.  Thanks to everyone who is chiming in to assist.  It sounds like there are some crazy workarounds to get it to work but I don't think it should be that complicated.  Korg has been no help. They just said the following but that doesn't fix their new vst3

f you revert to an older version, moving the location of the dll will prevent it from starting properly.
In this case you must specify the default VST2 folder. Reinstall the old version and make the folder path the default VST2 path.

On 9/5/2022 at 9:27 AM, abacab said:

He said he was using the ".dll" which implies it was the VST2.

My original crash was caused because I updated to the most recent M1 upgrade that was supposedly fixed so that it would remember the settings and patches. This was done in June or July.  Either way, the crash was caused by M1.dll. Are you saying that is the older vst2?  Korg support tech asked to verify if the plugin path is Program Files/Common Files/VST3?  The only file in that path is C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3\KORG\M1.dll.

So, Korg is telling me that M1.dll is what belongs in the VST3 folder.  But i am confused because you are saying that if it is a .dll file, it must be a vst2.  I think I should just break out my old Tascan Neo 24 digital recorder.  I have never had vst issues before and this one is a real problem.

That was pretty much what I said in my post other than copying the folder to the newer project. But if you are saying that the midi notes will return but not the patches, that won’t really work for me.  There are over 1000 patches and I really cannot begin searching all of them to figure out what I chose three years ago.  That is one hairy workaround.  Wouldn’t be so bad if I had one or two projects but it’s probably more than twenty.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Too bad the m1 plug-in just cannot work like it is supposed to.  
 

on a side not, is freezing a track essentially the same as exporting a track to a wave audio file?  Just wondering.  I never freeze midi tracks because there are times I want to manipulate some notes at the very end, right before mixing. 

22 hours ago, Bob Greene said:

TVR Productions,

     I had the same problem, as the M1 is one of my favorite softsynth plugs. The way I stopped this problem:

I went to my PLUGINS Cakewalk folder, cut the Korg folder and placed it outside anywhere Cakewalk would NOT look for plugins. I then restarted Cakewalk and let it tell me that the M1 plugin was not available and ok'd it. Once the project opened,  I opened another instance of the M1. , then I took all the MIDI data that had been written for the M1 and put it in the new M1 folder and latched it to the new M1. Then I deleted the old M1 instance. I closed the project and Cakewalk all the way out. Then I replaced the Korg folder back into the plugins folder of cakewalk. I then fired Cakewalk and the projects in question and they now worked fine with all my presets that I had saved beforehand. I re-added M1 on several projects, as I use it a lot, before I put the Korg folder back into the plugins cakewalk folder. So, if you have several projects with the M1 , make sure you fix everyone of them before replacing the plugins back in, as I did.  Otherwise, you will be repeating these steps needlessly multiple times... lol .   If this for some reason doesn't work for you, please let me know. I will try to help you as much as I can.

 

Thanks Bob. I am a bit confused.  I moved the m1 folder so it is not where it should be. I opened a project that used the old M1. I got the errors and I clicked ok all the way though. I am not sure what you mean when you say to take all the midi data from the old m1 and throw it into the new M1 folder.  What folder are you referring to? I work in IT and can figure out anything but I am not sure what you mean here.  Do you mean I need to insert another M1 instrument track.  What would happen if I copy and paste the entire midi track from the old track to the new. Save and re-open?  

I have never frozen a track. How would that prevent the crash I am getting now just for having the m1 as a vst in the project?

I will definitely move on but those sounds are so unique, it would change the feel and sound of all of my songs that I created using the m1.

I have 2.3.3 and I cannot open any project that used my older M1 vst. I can use the M1 in a new project and reopen it but that does not help me at all with the 20 or so older projects  that used the M1 vst2.  And to top it off, the fix that was supposed to keep the M1 settings does not work. I just recorded the  M1 House Piano and when I closed and reopened Cakewalk and the new project, it plays the Universe sound. So, big fail all around regarding the M1 vst.

As for holding the shift key and opening in safe mode, what would that accomplish? I opened, an old project in safe mode,  said NO for all of the M1 instruments and it opened fine. One problem, 80% of my project is missing.  So, unusable. 

Now, I can create new projects and be ok, albeit with all of its settings being lost evert time I reopen.  Or, I can try to get the old vst, but then that will probably break all the new projects. I certainly am not going to keep two versions of the dll and replace each in explorer every time I want to use the m1. I would just uninstall the m1 at that point and never use it again.  Not a great choice. Why do programmers constantly break crap when they attempt to fix things?

update. I completely uninstalled the latest m1 vst.  Installed my original from 2018.  It loads as a stand-alone but now no projects load the m1, so currently, I lost nearly every project I ever made.  Fun times.