Marcello

Hi guys,

so I'm recording at home my guitar with Cakewalk, using an Amp sim in within the DAW from Overloud.

Now I would like to use my DD-200 Boss pedal as an effect instead of the plugins within the DAW.

For convenience I would like to be able to re-amp the delay effect for the following reasons:

- The effects should sound better after distortion (amp sim in my DAW) as it is usually placed at the end of the signal chain

- If I place the delay effect before the audio interface and before getting into my daw the guitar will be recorded with the delay, not clean, this means that if I would like to change the delay settings after recording for some reason (like delay time, intensity, type or whatever) or maybe because I notice some mistake, I will need to record everything again, while if I re-amp the delay I can re-play the clean track recorded in my daw, and re-amp it back with the delay where I would be free to change the settings.

Now, I have read that instead of buying a re-amp box, I could use whatever Boss pedal (like my boss tuner for instance) as a reamp box, because apparently it has the same functionality, watch the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-RUSK9nOeQ

Can you confirm this can be done?

Also, since I have an interface with only one input, it's a really basic Seinberg UR12, I would need to buy a new audio interface so that with 2 inputs/outputs I can re-amp it.

I'm just a bit struggling to understand which one would better fit for my needs.

I would like, if possible, to be able to not switch cables and do re-amping in the second step after recording, but I would like to be able to do that simultaneusly, with that I mean recording the clean track while reamping at the same time, because I would need to hear the Boss DD-200 effect while I record the track.

So based on these infos, how many output/inputs I would need to have in my audio interface?

I'm considering these 2 models, of course there is a big difference in price, so I would like to get the Focusrite 2i2, but not sure if with those 2 line outputs would be enough,

maybe I could use the headphone output to be able to listen to the track while I record, and the 2 line outputs on the back to re-amp? Or do I need to get the 4i4 Focusrite?

Please notice the delay pedal effect would be better recorded in stereo, in any case I should also consider the price difference, if it worth it.

2i2

4i4

2 hours ago, John Vere said:

What many do like me is record the wet live signal with the effects and split it ( at my Boss tuner). And record a second track dry at the same time. 
Best of both worlds. But I almost always use the wet track.  Myself I need to “play” the effects especially delay. 

ah ok, so you split one guitar signal to the delay and one to the interface directly through the Boss tuner, I get it, but this doesn't solve the problem you cannot anyway change the delay amount/time/delay type and all the pedal settings, if you make a mistake or you figure out something after you recorded and you want to change it, you have to record it again. 

What you are doing is to record a track with delay and one without it, but still you are recording with the delay, while if you use the re.amp box you can just play the "clean" guitar already recorded in your DAW and press REC on the empty track where the delay effect is applied and redirected through the re-amp box.

Not sure I explained myself.

Also in any case you are firstly passing through the delay pedal first, not after, which still by default the distortion should be applied before the effects.

9 hours ago, Base 57 said:

Typically the Boss delay pedal goes before the amp. 

If you want to route a recorded track back through the pedal then you should use the reamper. But nothing is forcing you. 

If you are looking to track through the amp sim then loop back through the pedal while playing live, latency will be too much without a very fast computer and interface. 

mmm, I get it guys, I understand what you are saying but I'm a bit sceptical.

Anyway I asked a friend who has a recording studio, the difference is that if you place the delay pedal before everything,  after recording you cannot change anything, if you made a mistake, you have to record it again.

For instance you didn't set up the delay time properly with the song, or you want to change something, maybe too much delay or too less, you have to record again everything, while with the re-amp box you can always change the delay settings after recording because you recorded the clean guitar without effects.

In terms of sound is relative, usually it should go after the distortion, but as you said someone use it before, it shouldn't be a big deal.

So this is the main issue, not the sound.

I might buy it at the end.

1 minute ago, John Vere said:

So why don’t you do like I do and plug your guitar into the pedal and record it. As I said I will mostly record this way. Amp sims come in handy but they are not a replacement for the real thing. 
 

Even if you bought the re amp device it might sound horrible and that would suck. 

Sorry I didn’t explain myself well maybe. I won’t record with a real amp, because I’m home recording and I live in a condominium, so I just can’t, I don’t have a studio.

I use the amp sim from Cakewalk, which is great, and my guitar jack goes directly into my interface.

Now I want to use my delay Boss pedal, as an effect, and that should go after the amp, not before, at least if I want to record a proper sound correct???

then I should need a re-amp box correct?

1 minute ago, bdickens said:

You're really overthinking it.

I can't tell you how many guitarists have a delay pedal in front of a distorted amp.

I know! But since I’m recording an album is pretty different from just playing live.

20 minutes ago, John Vere said:

The easy way out is just use a delay pedal in the box.  Which amp sim are you using? There are lots of options. Problem solved. There's nothing special about the boss delay pedal. I find it a bit grainy compared to the Mooer. 

I understand, I could use the Overloud plugin effects and save money, they are ok. But on this particular delay pedal there is an amazing shimmer delay sound  much better than that in Overloud. So maybe I’m making too much mess for this shimmer delay, but sound so good, and also the way I have to play this shimmer delay is like a violin sound, so I use the Ernie ball volume pedal together with the delay to make this Orchestra violin sound with the guitar, that would be impossible to play from within the plugins in my daw.

15 minutes ago, John Vere said:

The easy way out is just use a delay pedal in the box.  Which amp sim are you using? There are lots of options. Problem solved. There's nothing special about the boss delay pedal. I find it a bit grainy compared to the Mooer. 

On 11/9/2021 at 6:58 PM, rsinger said:

You'll find plenty of delay pedals on pedal boards.

https://static.musiciansfriend.com/thehub/binaries/content/gallery/mf/interviews/eric-johnson-pedalboard.jpg

There's a memory man and Belle Epoch on Eric Johnson's pedal board. They're before the amp. Try it and see. You run into problems if you want to push the amp's input or you're driving the amp really hard.

Interesting comment from EJ -

The HUB: Does your setup change at all for studio recording?

EJ: It’s pretty much the same. I mean, I’ll use different pedals in the studio that I normally wouldn’t use live just for overdubs or something, but typically that’s the go-to sound that I could kind of cover everything I need to and, if I need to change it from there, it could be just a matter of setting the tone different, treble or bass or whatever, or different guitars.

 

I don’t do live, only studio recording. I don’t care about  live, I’m talking about the studio recording, normally the delay should be placed after the distortion, since I’m not using a distortion pedal But an amp sim software, or normally I anyway always use the amp distortion, then I need to go from my DAW to the delay pedal, then back from the delay to the DAW again through my audio interface, this is possible only with the re-amp box.

now Im just wondering whether this big change in sound quality  worth the money cause I have to buy a new audio interface and the re-amp box, everything would cost 200 bucks.
not sure it’s clear enough

On 11/9/2021 at 4:35 PM, msmcleod said:

It depends... if your pedal has a line level input, then you don't need a re-amp box.

If it's just got a HiZ guitar input, then you will need one.  Most of the time you can get away with a passive DI box rather than a dedicated re-amp box.

You should be able to get a passive DI box for around €15 -  €20.

No it doesn’t it’s a simple Boss pedal with jack input. I didn’t understand why the DI box would be fine, I thought I read that’s for other stuff, the re-amp box is what I need, not DI box.  I found one for 60 euros

18 hours ago, John Vere said:

Myself if I’m using a pedal it is going to be where it was designed to go.  Directly from my guitar and Before my amp.
I rarely record electric guitar directly because electric guitar needs an electric guitar pre amp to respond to. The whole thing with playing electric guitar is the pick ups, the pedals and the amp all reacts to your playing.  And your playing is effected by the sounds you’re getting. You play to the effects.  
My preferences is to use my pedals and amp to get the sound I want and record it. 
But sometimes your not dead sure and then a boring dry guitar track might work better. I often record both the amp and a dry signal. My Boss tuner has 2 outputs.  

Some interfaces offer a dedicated hi z jack which is a decent option if your plugged in directly. 
If I do go direct I use a Zoom multi effect pedal last in the pedal chain. My delay pedal is second last My overdrive pedals first. 

If I want clean and dry I just put the Zoom on bypass mode. The Zoom seems to give me a better punchy track than if I go directly from my  guitar. 
But the thing is there are no rules you can’t break.  So just try it. It will either give you a sound you’re after, or suck. 

This is because you are using the distortion pedal and you can place it before the delay, I use the amp distortion so the only way to place the delay after the amp is to use a re-amp box. 

Hi there!

I'm recording some stuff at home and I have purchased a very cool delay pedal for guitar I would like to use in some of my tracks.

I'm recording with cakewalk and and amp sim from Overloud.

Now, I don't have a re-amp box in order to place my delay pedal after the amp sim in my DAW, as it is usually recommended.

Is it really much better in terms of sound quality to place the delay pedal after the amp with the re-amp box?

Or is just fine for the guitar to pass to the delay pedal first and then to the amp sim in the daw?

Do you suggest me to buy a re-amp box?

Thanks in advance.

This is the track, is it too quiet in your opinion? try to compare it with some other references.

Skip the first part is only solo

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VNQJSj152Zxw1PFJGIHYQAMPEb89fZY9/view?usp=sharing

On 7/23/2021 at 8:10 PM, NOLAGuy said:

@MarcelloI  just got a notification yesterday from PluginBoutique.com (a legitimate site handling only legal versions of plugins) with an offer for customers of PlugIn Boutique to get Ozone 9 Standard for $49 (80% off) as part of a Summer Izotope sale on various products (Only good until August 1st).  You can sign-up with PlugInBoutique today and "may" be able to take advantage of the offer by looking around the website for Ozone 9 offers. I am an owner of Ozone Essentials, but that does not appear to be the criteria for this offer.

Be aware that sometimes, not always, such large discounts may be related to a new version to be released, but I think the current version of Ozone 9 Standard is quite powerful and very usable (from my use of the demo) being a novice user, and I am going to purchase it. If you register on the site and don't find this offer, send me a note, and I can forward the email info I received.

On 7/23/2021 at 8:30 AM, Max Arwood said:

Yes John - I am totally with you here - Low frequencies can push your readings to the max (not me a different Max lol) - Your song might not sound loud if you have too much stuff down there!  Also 1k-3k can make it too loud. Voxengo Span is a great free app for looking at frequency balance/volumes.

 

I don't think this is that great of a list - but it has a few good ones listed. They left out several - ADPT Streamliner, Levels, MLoudness, Waves WLM Plus. One of my favorite.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/12-of-the-best-vstau-metering-plugins

On 7/31/2021 at 6:42 PM, Craig Anderton said:

I didn't see this addressed specifically in the thread, but when a streaming service says its target is -14 LUFS, that doesn't mean your master has to measure -14 LUFS. It can be whatever you want, and the streaming service will turn it down to meet their target LUFS level. Sometimes you want to master "hot" to get a certain character, and that character will be preserved when the song is turned down.

One of the main reasons to meet a streaming services specs is because they often transcode to compressed audio. Meeting their specs will usually guarantee the least amount of distortion and other artifacts when the music is compressed. However, for the best transcoding performance, what's more important than meeting the LUFS spec is meeting the True Peak spec, which is typically -1 or -2 dB.

The best aspect for me about a streaming service's spec is that it means I can master something like an acoustic or jazz album to -14 LUFS, which is a decent amount of dynamic range, and it won't sound super-soft compared to everything else. (BTW some streaming services will turn up music below -14 LUFS, but others don't. So when artistically possible, I make sure a master doesn't go below -14 LUFS.)

@Craig Anderton Yes Indeed, my friend who's a mixing engineer and did some mastering before, told me that he mastered my tracks to stay at around -14 LUFS int because more than that would sound worst, I think he means that would sound too hot and harsh, at the same time I have to be happy with the volume not being too loud, at least not as loud as my other reference tracks.

Thing that bothers me is not when I listen to the record on speakers or amplifiers, but when I listen to it from my mobile phone, iPhone in my case, which  has a maximum level to protect ear damage which is not in relation with lufs, so if the song is low I cannot raise the volume until a certein point.

I'm not sure he took into account the low frequencies being too high 

There you go indeed, so Spotify won't normalize anymore, I guess if you have premium account, Bandcamp also never did. Does it make sense still to master at -14 LUFS integrated as recommended for streaming platforms?

My mastering engineer ,which is more of a mixing engineer actually, told me that the master version he did at -14 LUFS integrated in terms of quality sounds much better of that done at -10/-8 LUFS integrated. Is this possible??

The more you raise the volume (meaning pushing the track more against the  limiter in the master) the more sounds shitty?

I cannot hear the difference honestly but if I compare the master he did with some reference tracks, it's much lower in volume.

https://newsroom.spotify.com/2021-02-22/five-things-to-know-about-spotify-hifi/

Hi Guys,

I want to use my guitar pedals instead of plugins in cakewalk, I will still use the guitar amp sim, but I want to use my delay pedal.

I will have to buy a re-amp box and also,  Since I only have a steinberg UR12 interface with one single input,  I'm thinking to get a focusrite with two inputs, but I just have one doubt:

the interface needs to have 2 outputs as well ?

There are these 2 versions, which one should I get??

4 minutes ago, scook said:

Use it as a learning experience.

Projects work at one sample rate but the clips may be at different bit depths.

ok so from my understanding if you recorded at 16 bitrate and you export at 32 bitrate doesn't really matter, but if it's the opposite you should dither otherwise gets lossy correct?

6 minutes ago, scook said:

This

means all future recordings will be 16bit.

To see the bit depth for existing clips use

 

Bloody hell some tracks were recorded at 16 and some at 32, what should I do? I export it in WAV at 32 anyway?

I remember I recorded this one at 32 but I'm not 100% sure I did. DOn't remember

11 minutes ago, scook said:

Record Bit Depth is set in Preferences > File > Audio Data

As a rule this should be set the same as Audio Driver Bit Depth in  Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings

Main menu Project > Audio Files shows details about clips referenced in the project.

Thanks man!!

This means it was recorded at 16 or at 32?  I suppose 16? what is render referring to?

Hi guys, I have started recording some songs at 41000  sample rate and 16 bitrate, then I figured out it was too low so the next songs I recorded at 48000 sample rate but then I don't remember at which bitrate, maybe 24 maybe 32, thing is that I did back and forth exporting some old songs recorded at 16, and now in my Preference settings I have 16 by default, but is there a way to check at which bit rate the tracks were recorded in cakewalk??

2 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

In your screenshot, it looks like two mono tracks were created.

Did you have Import as mono tracks checked?

Right dude! Thanks a lot!!!

Guys! I have an issue 

I exported my mix in WAV, entire mix, indeed it creates one WAV file.

Then I need to import this file in a new project for the master, but when I do Import > audio

it creates 2 tracks, I don't gt it, this never happened, it seems almost like one is mono and the other stereo, doesn't make sense, do you know how to fix this??

If I just delete the second one it sound shit, like in mono.

37 minutes ago, Ted K. Ling said:

Different people have different needs, as far as levels they are working to.  Some use -18LUFS, others stick with -23.  The ability to change this is to allow the graphic to truly represent their "goal".  On your first graphic you had an excessive amount of overs (the red dots at the top of the graphic) which (I think) made you "panic" a bit, like "WTF is going on here ...".  If, for example, you had Youlean set up @ -14LUFS (which of course is louder than the default -23), you would not have seen so many of the "overs".  But, this obviously does not change your mix ... it's only to give you a clue what's going on.  Also, you can get a graphic representation of dynamic range, not just loudness, by clicking on the oscilloscope button.

But you've moved on and are getting great info from others here.  My post was only a heads-up in case you didn't know too much about Youlean.

Good luck with you productions.

I think I'm getting it, guys, the post has been going for quite long, thank you all.

I basically didn't figure out that I had to balance the threshold in the limiter with the input gain,  so I increased the input gain quite a bit to stay below 0db and then decreased the threshold, now the gain reduction is not that heavy and persistant in the whole track, it sounds slightly lower then what I expected but I'd rather not risk to squash it and have a lower volume.

On 8/4/2021 at 2:55 AM, Ted K. Ling said:

Looking at your graphics, it looks like you have the Youlean set at the default of -23 LUFS (that's where the red bar starts).  I dunno if the free version can be changed, but the purchased one (cheap at around 30$) you can change all that (see Settings, the cog-wheel - there are a few different windows of options).  You would get a completely different read out if you set it up to -14 LUFS.

Anyway, just mentioning this.  Good luck.

mmm ok than if you can change the meter settings, what do you need the meter for? I mean if I need the meter to tell me not me telling the meter LOL

9 hours ago, John Vere said:

The Dynameter does look like a great tool. It makes a complicated task a lot easier. I will pass on the $125 Can price tag as my music seems fine without it but I would defiantly think about it if it was more like $30-$40. I think that's what the You Lean meter was and it has more than paid for itself.  

I think the reason I don't have an issue is the way I use compression and limiting. I always set them so there is very little activity on the meter. Even my Multi band. If a certain frequency is showing too much compression I go back to the mix and seek out the offending instrument. This is were sub busses come in handy. Just mute a sub buss and if the issue goes away you have narrowed down your search.  I tend to push most instruments to the wall and then back them off a bit. The limiter/compressors are only used to catch peaks not to squash. I find -12 to -14 LUFS just fine. 

yea that's way too much just for a meter. How do you check if there is too much compression or not happening? I honestly cannot tell just by listening yet, some meter? how do you use them usually?