Sonarman

12 hours ago, Tezza said:

 

I never had problems with either my LX or GX controller with Cakewalk, they both worked as expected, I cannot decide which to use though, not a fan of the GX keyboard action but like it's size.

 

@Tezza Are you sure abt GX having diff key action compared with LX? I felt the same perhaps when I got my hand on both these models but the Nectar support keeps telling me both has the exact same action.. 

You could also use Clip effects, Instead of Process>Apply effect you can select Process>Insert effect. Now the clip will get a fx rack and you can add as much plugins there. This way no need to bounce to clip(unless required to save cpu load).

Thanks, that does help. Wondering why the select tool cant be utilized for this though.

I tried selecting more than one note in PRV by ctrl+click using the Select Tool. To my surprise it doesn't work. It works for clips so I thought this would work for midi notes as well,  but it didn't. I know this can be done using the smart tool but when the grid is zoomed out its hard to focus and select multiple notes using the smart tool which is why I tried using the select tool for this.

Quote

For example, one particular track showed the exact same velocities as the other pasted sections when I compared them in the piano roll.  However there was a nearly 6 decibel increase in the sound after it was pasted in another section. 

Are you feeding the copied  midi data to the same Vsti or different one. Or are you feeding it to a different instance of the same Vsti with the same patch? Is it possible that the other patch us setup with different volume or velocity sensitivity levels? 

But mostly your issue seems to be of doubling coz usually doubling causes 6db rise in volume.

@marled I think Grem pored a bit of insight on your issue in one of the previous posts. Not sure if you had it noticed.  I'll quote it here.
 

On 5/23/2019 at 7:44 PM, Grem said:

has to do with CbB saving extra data/info for the clip so that it can revert back or undo.

Others have reported strange behavior that was due to info that is 'traveling' with the clip for reasons of reverting and undo. So I am not sure if this is a bug or expected behavior.

And this waveform line simply disappears if I turn looping on in groove clip.
 

Wicked. I am actually importing a Vengeance factory loop directly into the grid.  However I tried different files including final mixdown's I made from CbB. This shows up with everything. And yes since you are using 24/44 in your DAW you might not experience this in the same bar as mine, try switching the clip to bar 3 bar 5 etc.  And different tempos.

Here's the video. Eventually I believe this abt a half sample misaligned waveform is also causing redundant fadein and outs while looping the clips manually using copy paste or copy drag. 
 

19 minutes ago, Grem said:

@Sonarman look here to make zero crossing settings: https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR X3&language=3&help=Dialogs2.076.html

 

I can get the clip right back on bar 2, but it takes a little drag/drop/drag/drop to get it just right without snap settings. With snap settings it just snaps to the bar 2 mark. Is this what your referring too?

How does it sound? Does it sound like a click at the beginning of the clip? Is it out of timing?

Yes its possible with the snap turned off as well, requires a little more effort dragging. But since I kept my smart grid turned on and smart gird was trying to snap to 1. sample I was not able to place the clips precisely at 2.01:000. 

When I zoom in the clip looks like this with the blue line extending till the previous sample ruler although the clip is aligned at bar 2.
 

No there is no problem with the sound it sounds fine, but when I try to loop the clip by copy pasting to the next following measures some of the clips create fade in and outs randomly which is what in the first place made me to zoom in and check for errors.


Btw snap to zero crossing is turned of in my preferences and I dont think it has any effect on this.

1 hour ago, Grem said:

@Sonarman I did what you described/ asked. So yes I changed the tempo. I also zoomed in as far as it will go, sample level.  And yes, I did as you asked, when zoomed in max I was able to move the clip, get it back exactly to bar 2, and I was able to get the now marker on bar 2 also.

If you want a clip to fall exactly on the beginning of a bar, you can use snap settings of a musical time. IOW measure, half, quarter, eighth, act. 

There is also a setting (not at my computer) that puts edits at the zero crossing, eliminating the need to zoom in and check.

Thanks Grem. Now this means something else has to be looked at. And perhaps I did use snap settings indeed, it all looks nice and snappy but when i zoom in all these discrepancies show up. 

Update: Yes once I zoom in I am able to move and snap back the clip to bar 2 by changing the snap setting to musical time. The problem was smart grid changing its settings to 1 samp. thus preventing me from snap the clip back to bar 2. The now time also follows the snap settings.

So now going back to my first post

Quote

1)Firstly the grid line disappears. 
2)I am not able to movie the clips or place the now time precisely at the place where CbB ruler says the the 2nd bar is(Or any other bar I
try, but i didnt came across the same issue when I tried this in bar 4 & 7 so I guess this is specific to some measures.)
3)Prior to zooming in the now time stays at the precise 2nd bar but if I move it after zooming in it wont get placed in the same place again. 
4)The waveform in side the clips appears displaced from its original location. 

1) This does happen but ain't a big issue maybe.
2)@Grem and @dreamkeeperhelped with this, I'm able to move back the file to the precise location by changing the snap settings from 1 samp. to musical value.
3)Same as point 2 this is also possible by changing snap settings.
4)This does happen.  And since @Grem could not reproduce this in his setup this further complicates things. Hope few more guys try reproducing this.  I will try to post a video demonstrating this.

2 hours ago, dreamkeeper said:

It seems that you can only move to whole sample positions (which makes sense). Depending on sample rate and tempo, those positions may not align precisely with musical time. So it's inevitable that there might be a small offset between sample and bar/beat. You can check that by adding a sample ruler.

That said, grid lines shouldn't disappear of course.

I did anticipate something of this kind as an explanation for this.. Could be true. However the way CbB handles this is still eccentric. It is expected that the clip might not be able to align precisely to the musical time if what you say is true.  yet after zooming in the now time wont precisely align to the beats as well, how could that be the case?

3 hours ago, Ndumiso said:

Thank you, I'll explore all your suggestions. I always undock the console view but found it annoying that every time I do it, I'll have to maximise the window. 

You can open an empty project, then undock and maximize (and customize various other views the way you need it)  and save it as your default project template. This makes things way easy everytime you start a project. 

5 hours ago, Grem said:

How are you zooming in?

I just tried what you asked, I zoomed in to the sample level, and my clip stayed exactly at Bar 2.

I can not reproduce your issue.

 

When you zoom in so far, the grid lines disappear depending on your snap settings. I had it set to 128th note and the grid did disappear after I zoomed in beyond that level of note resolution.

Yea, thanks for checking. Couple of things to make sure, 1) have you changed the tempo? While kept at 120 there seems to be no issue. I also tried changing the tempo to various rates and at some tempos (40, 80, 120, 100, 200,etc) this issue doesn't show up. It does show up in tempos like 70, 98, 138, 139, 170, 101,...

2) Like @chris.r suggested you will have to zoom it to the maximum. Even after reaching sample level keep zooming in untill it max out. Now try to move the clip or now time a little and try to place it back at bar 2. 

I have kept display vertical lines in front of the clip in track view settings, so even after zooming to sample level i could see a grid line in exactly 2:01:000 but this line disappears when I zoom in further maximum. This may or may not be a normal behavior when someone zooms in max, but I am zooming in to make sure if the clip is aligned on the grid and the grid line disappearing dont help. This aint a big issue still if the other issues doesn't show up. The clip in itself looks misaligned and not sure of its position. like this...



So now when you try to drag the clip or now time new issues show up.  You cant click or drag the now time or clip precisely near  2:01:000, and the clip wont move to its previous location what ever you might try. Its as if something is messed up in the grid's algorithm that sonar itself is unsure where exactly the clips should be placed.

3 minutes ago, chris.r said:

All I can say is that I had most of the issues above in 32-bit Sonar for years, so just to confirm.

I see. I'm running 64bit, the issue is consistent in both my PC's one running W7 and another running W10

Yes its a bug. If I recall correctly all tracks will have the the output of previous tracks -1 or something. But there was an easy fix.  Someone asked me to change the audio driver to ASIO and this bug disappeared.  If your issue is identical to mine you can try changing the audio driver from preferences>driver mode.

I find it rather easy without using screensets. Just undock and maximize the console. now toggle anytime using Key D. Screensets can be very handy aswell if you wanna customize various views in various ways.

Now sure what exactly u mean by proper scaling but in CbB you can dock mixer to the multidock and use keys D and Shift +D to view and hide the dock. You can also float the dock and then do the same incase you wanna see the mixer full screen without the control bar and other views.

So I just zoom in to check whether the loop is placed perfectly on the grid and this opens up several issues. I'm not sure whether this is a
display issue or a bigger issue. I Zoom in (really microscopic to the extent the smart grid turns to 1 sample) and a few weired things start
to happen. 
1)Firstly the grid line disappears. 
2)I am not able to movie the clips or place the now time precisely at the place where CbB ruler says the the 2nd bar is(Or any other bar I
try, but i didnt came across the same issue when I tried this in bar 4 & 7 so I guess this is specific to some measures.)
3)Prior to zooming in the now time stays at the precise 2nd bar but if I move it after zooming in it wont get placed in the same place again. 
4)The waveform in side the clips appears displaced from its original location. 

Its really messy this ain't the first time I noticed this, have came across this soo many times but today it was really annoying coz it was
hindering my workflow. I always thought its a display issue in the gui but today while trying to loop some bars it created fade out to the
nearby clips although the loops are exactly 1measure long with the same tempo. So I zoomed in to see what the issue is and its a real mess.
One of these issues seems to disappear(displaced waveform Issue no 4.) if I turn the Looping on in Grove clip properties

Not able to recreate this issue when the tempo is kept at 120. Happens in various projects though. My current project is 138bpm.

It might be a little hard to write what I am facing.
May I just ask you to open an empty project and change the bpm to 138. Now import a audio loop or something and try to keep it somewhere, lets
say bar 2. now keep the now time at bar 2 and zoom in really hard to check whether the loop is kept precisely at bar 2 you will come across
all sorts of complications I am going through. Hope its a known bug or there is some explanation why this happens.  

Another display issue I have seen a many times in Sonar is the Waveform in clips show as if there is data at the end of clips when kept at a
particular horizontal zoom in/out level. Clips look fine when kept at other zoom levels.

I do think marketing had never been top notch even when Gibson or others had us.  Bandlab can sure gear up the marketing now coz its easy to sell "A superior DAW thats free!" But do they really care abt it? coz they are not actually selling it just giving away for free. Gosh! 

Regarding CbB sounding superior to studio one. I had the same experience. Yet all null tests indicates they are same. One thing to notice is that S1 uses different pan law which can influence your mixes. The null tests indicate that the data remains the same inside both daws but either they  do sound different or its all abt the GUI that makes people think so(and thats totally possible!).  To me studio one's interface although great, feels too digital and binary unlike CbB interface which keeps me all inspired while working. 
 

To OP's question

Is Cakewalk gaining users/popularity with Bandlab?

Its hard to say unless Bandlab provies some data regarding how many new downloads of CbB happened through Bandlab. Anyway one thing we can do is keep track of the num of youtube views for cakewalk tutorials num of facebook likes for Cakewalk page etc etc.  I once did a count on the fanbase of various DAW's facebook pages. This count I did post Sonar's doom by Gibson on Dec 2017. If someone is curious enough he can check how much of change has happened in the fan count of these pages. I'm curious to know but lazy to check. 


This is the facebook fanbase of these official facebook pages on Dec 3 2017.

Cakewalk Soft 143k
Presonus 218k
Pro Tools 140K
Avid 185K
Steinberg 203K
Ableton 622k
Ableton Live 253k



 

On 3/8/2019 at 6:11 PM, Tezza said:

I've got both at the moment, I liked the LX61 but too big for my setup so I got the GX61 but was surprised that the keybed was completely different to my original LX model, more piano like than synth like. Still ok, just a difference I wasn't expecting.

It seems some of these low end models have poor quality management, my GX61 keybed was pretty hard like piano keys yet totally uninspiring to play with terrible plastiky springy responce . I sent it back. Recently i met a friend of mine who had the same model and when i tried playing on it it had a pretty decent synth responce. The keys were much easy to press. This and a few more experiences demoing midi controllers in shops makes me think these manufactures have very little quality control and they keep experimenting with the responses often. I found varying responses in m-audio keybeds accross the keys in diff octaves in the same keybed . Also some of the maudio keystation keybeds have very hard black keys and some of them are fine to press but if you happen to buy the fine to press boards they are gonna give you some strange velocity problem while pressing the black keys.  Its pretty messed up, I'm speaking from my own experience and lots reviews I found online also agrees with it. But who knows you might have a smooth experience, however make sure you buy from a shop that accepts returns. My retailer charged me 15% for using it. These manufactures are playing with quality in case of midi controllers. The low end Yamaha and Casio keyboards actually come with a 3year warranty. Which shows their level of quality maintenance compared with these so called midi controller manufactures.  

The biggest lesson I learned in buying a keyboard controller is always try them before buying. If keybed action is something you care about on then dont listen to any opinion coz everyone likes different keyboard action. For eg: There are tons of good review and opinions on the keyboard action of Nectar Impact series and M audio Keystation series and I bought both of these one after the other and totally disliked them. I would say even the bottom range of Yamaha PSR and Casio CTK has much better keys. Now im saving money on buying something else my options are Novation slmk3 or NI Komplete A Series or S series. Which ever it is I'm not gonna buy before I demo them. If you are looking for Hammer action you better off buying a digital piano, the casio privia and yamaya p115 are good ones, even better choices Roland FP30 and Kawai ES110. Always demo before buying.  These dont come with mod wheel and pitch bend though. 

If controlling CbB with pads, knobs, and faders is your necessity then there is a wide range of options all with soo many pros and cons. The nectar impact is very good in that but the keybed sucks. But who knows you might like it.

6 hours ago, synkrotron said:

Sorry, I should have stated here, and elsewhere, that I am using ASIO driver, currently set to 384 samples (I have tried lower but I get too many dropouts, crackles and pops)

And regardless of the so called "round trip" latency, I am getting much more than that when using External Insert.

I see

You might also try checking whether you have applied any manual offset or timing offset in preferences > audio> sync and caching. By default they should be in 0.

Try setting  the driver mode to ASIO as the audio driver in preferences >Audio>Playback and Recording. Then go to preferences>Audio>Driver Settings and adjust the buffer size by clicking the ASIO Panel, you should be able to get a minimum of 200-500samples round trip latency atleast.