Jerry Gerber

Thanks InstrEd!   I am able to work in the staff view the way I do because I was composing and playing music decades before I even knew what a DAW was.  I think the better of a player one is, the more likely it is to transfer that knowledge of phrasing, articulation, gesture, intention and musicality in general to music that is sequenced within a DAW.  

9 hours ago, InstrEd said:

I

1 hour ago, bitflipper said:

Damn, this is so good, Jerry! Jeez, I wish I knew how to make brass that expressive.

Thanks bitflippper.

If your brass samples don't have built-in dynamics (the samples are of actual instruments going from p to f, or pfp, or f to p, etc. then you have to do it with cc7 or cc11.  That's how I did it before I had the VSL library.  If you write for 3 trumpets, and they're all playing the same line, make sure you de-tune them from each other a little bit, maybe 5 or 10 cents, and also make sure you stagger them so that one starts on the beat, one starts maybe 10 ticks early and one starts 10 ticks late.  This will open up and give a much fuller sound and create more distinction between 1 trumpet and 3, or 1 trombone and 3, etc.

Also, since brass sit in the back of the orchestra, if you give them a little longer reverb and very slightly more reverb, that can make a difference.   Experiment, there's no right way or wrong way to sequence music...

Jerry

On 6/16/2020 at 5:44 PM, msmcleod said:

In the next release, the staff view will respect the global snap setting for note positioning. The note duration settings will remain unchanged.

In other words,  you'll be able to independently set the note duration and the snap positioning. 

Dear msmcleod,

Any chance you know when this new version with the snap function fixed will be available?

Thanks,

Jerry

Yep, the problem was the themes.  When I reverted back to one of the 2 original themes, I see now that the Inspector uses icons now rather than text.

I sure hope the themes I like are being updated, I'll head over to that section of the site and check....

Best,

Jerry

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

As of 2020.04. the pro channel tabs have been replaced with icons. If you're getting text, then it's probably because you're using a custom theme.

This post details the elements that need changing:
 

 

Great, thank you.  This might be because I am using themes.  I hope the theme-makers update their work because there are a few themes I really like a lot...

Jerry

Hi,

In regard to the latest CWB update:

I just noticed that the Inspector now has an added function called "Arranger".  But this added tab cuts off the text from "Pro Channel" and and I don't see a way to expand the Inspector so that all the text shows..  It looks cramped.  Even when I undock the Inspector the "Pro Channel" tab has some garbled text in it...

Any solution to this?  Can I remove the "arranger" tab from the Inspector?

I attached a screenshot using Microsoft Word (.docx) that shows the glitch...

Thanks,

Jerry

Pro Channel.docx

1 hour ago, AndyB01 said:

Seriously impressive work to compose in that way and get results like this - Tom had it with 'I'm humbled' - #ditto. Andy

Thanks Andy, and thanks for listening!

Jerry

Yep, as I always do.  I use the mouse to pop notes on to staves, occasionally I'll play parts in, but nearly the entire composition is composed using the mouse, the staff view, the event list and of course tons of controller data, tempo changes, velocity changes and attack/release data.  Since I am using VSL, I've got a very large pallet of articulations and sample sets, which helps a lot.

Thanks for listening, glad you enjoyed it Bjorn..

From the album Virtual Harmonics

Scored for VSL Symphonic Cube

PLAY

Also keep in mind that when you export Cakewalk notation to a program like Sibelius or Finale, it's best to export as a .mid type 1 file, not XML.

First of all, if your piece has more than 23 staves you won't be able to export all of the music as XML.   Also, if you export as XML the graphic inaccuracies will be exported too, so you'll have to edit them in your notation program.  With a MIDI file export,  the MIDI data will export accurately.  You'll still have to do some editing, but there's less chance of errors cropping up than with XML.   

In perfect conditions, I'd use XML upon export, but we don't have that so I prefer to use MIDI to maintain better rhythmic accuracy.

Jerry

2 hours ago, Tobias said:

Fair point, but there are some simple (maybe?) tweaks only that I am really asking for, not the full on Finale/Sibelius feature set.  To me at this point, the staff implantation is a bit like having a word processor that does not contain all the letters of the alphabet, like 5-6 are missing for some reason.  The musical alphabet contains different note values that can be displayed visually, and it does in CW but only to a point. I guess I dont understand the cutoff point of what is include and what is not. whole notes up to 32nd notes and triplets is included in staff. There are no other tuplets like quintuplets of sixtuplets or polys etc, which I guess is as easy/or hard to process as an eight note for a computer as they are just different number of "ticks".  You can step record these things using ticks and tuplets but they are not able to be displayed correctly which makes editing hard(er). A 16th note quintuplet for example ends up being a group of 4 16th notes with an extra 16th mashed in between.  My question here is if it harder to display those than triplets or eights, or is it just that CW decided to stop where they did for some reason?  

I am ignorant about how difficult and/or time consuming it would be to expand the visual vocabulary a bit to be more complete. Could be it is a real pain. 

 

I have no idea whether programming the staff view to include 32note triplets, tied triplets, dotted triplets, etc.  is quite doable and the will just isn't there, or whether it's a very difficult programming problem.  I do know that the original code for the staff view is quite old so I suspect it's probably quite  a complex job.  But there's good news:  The display of these events has no impact on MIIDI precision upon playback.  If you program tied 32nd notes or dotted 16th note triplets, you'll get exactly that on playback.   When I export a .mid file into Sibelius it's not a big problem to edit and clarify the notation.

The other good news is that even though Cakewalk doesn't display 64th or 128th notes, the fact is they are not often used, at least not nearly as often and 32nd and 16th notes.  So, the workaround is this:  if you're working on a piece that suddenly requires 64th notes, simply double the tempo and write them as 32nd notes.  Or, leave the tempo as it is, and when you export the file to a program like Sibelius, correct the notation there.  I know it's not perfect, but I'll take the limitations and imperfections of Sonar over every other DAW on the market because of all the things that Sonar is that other DAWS are not.

Jerry

1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said:

Interesting mix of traditional sounds and synths.

Are the voices samples?

As always I'm humbled...

t

Hi Tom,

The voices are from the Roland XP-30, there's a vocal sound set that I had came on a ROM card.  I believe they are probably a mix of samples that were processed by Roland..

Best,

Jerry

I've written this before, but keep in mind that the notation editor in a DAW is primarily about MIDI sequencing and editing.  It's not a scoring program, which is essentially a graphics program.  To prepare a score with parts for performance is not a recording function, it's a publishing tool.  I do all my scores in Sibelius, but I do all my MIDI work in Sonar.  I wouldn't expect, or even want, a DAW to be a publishing tool, better in my opinion to have the DAW for the creation and production of music and the full-fledged graphics program like Sibelius for publishing and final score creation. 

53 minutes ago, Tobias said:

Another vote for staff improvements here!  I do realize a DAW and full fledged scoring apps like Finale/Sibelius are somewhat different and it might not be possible or feasible to get to that level at a reasonable amount of work based on the interest for such a thing from the CW community. I have said before that notation is really the only missing link in CW for me. I can manage to work around it either writing by hand or in other programs like mentioned above, but I would obviously prefer to be able to do it all within CW. But I do realize the implications of including scoring to that level, most likely mega effort involved. 

I hope maybe there could be some updates with  more notation options like different tuplets and polyrythms etc.  But hey,  I am very happy with the  product as is, but one can dream, right ?

19 hours ago, jieva said:

Not many people seem to care about staff view but for me it is really important, especially for writing orchestral stuff for games and films etc.  Cakewalk can do almost anything except place a note where you want it.  After years and years of it being fine someone decided to remove the snap (and indeed the note values at one point).  I have decided to migrate to reaper.  It has been a bit of a struggle but once you get the hang of it then I can do most things there now.  I would come back to cakewalk if staff view had snap.  I also work withing a group of people and that means that we will all switch.

I appreciate the tremendous effort that goes into some of the latest features but in reality I would not use the arranger view and while being able to visually see changes to a wave in a clip when you apply envelopes is tremendous bit of engineering it does not change the fact that I can't enter the notes on time.  I could use the piano roll for maybe 2 instruments at a time but that is so hard compared to looking at a full score of instruments and moving individual notes around or seeing  where instruments are in conflict etc.  

I really don't know why Bandlab don't say anything at all about it or seem to grasp that it is important for some of us.

I am thinking of doing some youtube vids of my experience of converting over to reaper and how to do some of the things in reaper that are difficult to find in reaper but easy in cakewalk.  Such things as assigning a midi channel to a track or working out how to do the routing of a track so that it resembles the synth rack, bouncing audio, splitting and joining clips (Items in Reaper) etc

 

 

 

I bet if the staff view were given as much attention as other aspects of the program, many musicians who abandoned Cakewalk would come right back.  I did after spending 18 months with Digital Performer.  Cakewalk is the most underrated DAW on the market, it is as powerful as any other DAW, ergonomically superior to the other DAWs I've worked with (Cubase, Reaper, DP, and a demo of Pro Tools)  and makes complex operations easy and simply, but not so simple that precision and detail are sacrificed.  Being in the education market, I would think the notation editor would be of supreme importance--regardless of how many musical styles don't depend upon or use notation, the fact is that it's going to be around for a  long time and scoring to picture, classical music, complex arrangements and other styles of music are going to employ notation in one way or another.  Sonar is also beautiful to look at; I've worked in Cakewalk since 1991 and still am excited to be looking at and working in the program.  It's solid as a rock on Windows 10. 

I left Sonar because of the staff view, but after using DP, the staff view in Sonar has much that is more to my liking.  I often write for lots of instruments and I write complex, long pieces.    DP's editor is set up to imitate an 8.5x11 piece of music paper, which is fine for short works with few instruments.  But Cakewalk's notation is more like an arranger's pad, it's much easier to scroll through pieces with hundreds of measures and I can see much more music in one screenful, horizontally speaking, and vertically, the number of staves I can see at once is larger than DPs (23 vs 18).  And the event list--just having color coded MIDI events as Cakewalk does makes it so much easier to see what's going on.  Tiny text and no color coding is really hard on the eyes... 

Jerry

2 hours ago, msmcleod said:

In the next release, the staff view will respect the global snap setting for note positioning. The note duration settings will remain unchanged.

In other words,  you'll be able to independently set the note duration and the snap positioning. 

Hi msmcleod,

that would be really great, thanks.  I also hope the other staff view issue, which is being able to right-click to get the editing menu is restored so that CTRL doesn't have to be held down at the same time...

Jerry

www.jerrygerber.com

From the album Number 11: The Path
Scored for VSL Orchestral Cube and the following synths: Roland XP-30, Native Instruments Massive, Cakewalk Rapture & Virsyn Tera.

PLAY

Really enjoyed listening to this song.. Straightforward, nice guitar part, your voice is easy on the ears!

Jerry

1 hour ago, DeeringAmps said:

As always Jerry a pure delight!
A question, did you write the piece for the poetry, or just select a piece that fit it?

Once again thanks for sharing.

t

 

Hi Tom,

I chose 12 poems for an album I did a while back.  I composed music for each of the poems.  I started another all vocal album this year but due to Covid-19, I can't bring singers and narrators into the studio to record, so I'm working on a new symphony until I can bring people into to the studio.

Thanks again for the kind comments!

Best,

Jerry

From the album In Praise of Poets

PLAY

Jerry

3 hours ago, Lynn said:

Outstanding!  I was mesmerized, as I always am by your offerings.  Your skills and taste are beyond reproach, and you raise the bar yet again.  Can't wait to listen again.

Hi Lynn,

Well, I am glad there a some people who get my music and like it.  I think composers like me, who work in the virtual medium but don't write pop-like music, are in the minority.  Thanks for your comments!

Jerry

This track appears on my album In Praise of Poets

PLAY

Jerry

6 hours ago, jieva said:

No - The notes don't snap at all.  They seem set at 32nd positions.  The notation looks fine but the timing is hit and miss.

 

Yes, this is correct.  No matter what note value is chosen, the snap function is always hit or miss.  I find the workaround is to make the staves bigger, this helps.  It used to be that when you choose, say, an eighth note, the snap would follow the eighth note and snap into place at the place where you want it to.    Does Bandlab read these comments?  

This issue and the issue where we have to press CTRL-right click to call up the context menu for MIDI editing should be repaired.  We should be able to call up the menu just by a right-click, which requires only one hand rather than two...

Jerry

7 hours ago, jieva said:

Please please please can we also have snap back in the staff view it drives me crazy without it

That would be the best thing that could happen for the staff view.

Both methods have their advantages.  For accuracy I also prefer exporting type 1 .mid files.   But for clarity of notation that requires less editing, XML works well .  But since I cannot find a way to export more than 18 tracks (the maximum allowed to view at one time in the staff view) I'll just stick with .mid file exports....

Thanks,

Jerry