Misha

Hi Folks! For a couple of years I was considering of purchasing Blue Cat's PatchWork for some stuff outside of Cakewalk. Still can not decide if I need it or not. One of the things in Cakewalk that I do not like, is that even if VST FX is turned off, but present in the bay, it will use CPU resources, because if I remember correctly it is called "hot", meaning it is always on standby. Unless global FX is turned off of course. The list of features and possibilities of BC Patchwork is astonishing, but I was wondering if somebody with experience with this plugin can help me to understand if it will work the way I hope it will in real world. Workflow I am after: Usually I work with about 15-20 tracks. I want 2-3 FX scenarios, that I can recall/change easily. FX light, with 1-4 FX instances for tracking FX heavy, for mixdown FX sketch pad, medium FX load to try out different FX stuff. Is this possible to achieve with BC Patchwork? To have these "FX scenarios" and change them quickly depending on situation? Thank you!

I think, it reminds us that there should be a balance between new and shiny default features of plugins and how it interacts with actual system it is being installed on and running project Perhaps a more generous & universal monitoring system (analyzer) , that will allow not only monitor but adjust latency related items in a single place? Settings could include something like: Wizard-for new comers / Intermediate for someone like me / and advanced, for seasoned users. I know it is probably a little dumbed down request, but most likely would benefit many..

Martin, I followed instructions from Fabfilter: Windows: Click the Start button, type 'regedit', Enter to open the Registry Editor. (You might have to give permission to continue.) Navigate to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\FabFilter. Right-click and select New > DWORD (32-bit) Value. Name it GraphicsAcceleration and ensure its value is 0.

Martin, Now sure what plugins you are using, I guess process is somewhat similar. This was for mine: "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\FabFilter. Right-click and select New > DWORD. Name it GraphicsAcceleration and ensure its value is 0."

Thank you everyone for help and encouragement! I spent quite some time today trying different scenarios, eliminating / re-inserting / re-routing VSTs. Finally, I believe I fixed it. Issue was not multiple instances of same FX or even huge number of take lanes... What worked: 1)Disabling graphic acceleration for plugin group in regedit. 2) Disabling "look ahead" items. 3) Turning off "True Peak Limiting" in limiter. P.S. azslow3, I like that : "you can not reduce the size of your shadow by running faster..."

Starship Krupa, Thank you for reply! interesting! So lets say if I upgrade and do not like what I see, I can replace Core folder and it will run the version that I copied last? That seems like a very simple solution. I wonder, if it will de-authorize at some point if left on same machine without updating? Here is the thing. Right now Cakewalk is near perfect for what I am doing (and was doing for many years). My biggest issue was take lane behavior and HUGE thanks to Noel and crew that was addressed. I have seen in the past with some software titles "updates" screwed up workflow and even reduced useful features, so having the "previous" version could be very useful.

azslow3, Thank you for reply! "It is good to identify which plug-ins introduce which latency and what is complete routing"... I am messy with my plugins. If I feel one is needed where it is needed, I will just slap it there, without too much thought how it will affect latency. Machines are getting faster and software smarter, so I hope this latency "thing" is a downhill battle. But for now... Instead of wrestling with particular plugin or plugin manufacturer, I think the easiest path would be to automate how FX engine works. On playback / Off on recording. I guess, since nobody answered it is not that simple. If a particular plugin could be excluded from recording and included on playback on main FX engine, it would worth to investigate and try to address the issue of particular VST. But as I understand it is all or nothing on main FX engine. Scook, Thank you for the link. Interesting plugin, but again it is same scenario. I do not want to give up the plugins I am using, even if they report PDC incorrectly. I rather disable FX engine on recording, however, automating it would save time by not clicking around constantly I feel I have to explain why I want to automate, instead of just clicking FX button. In a session, when I try out different phrasings, I can have dozens (sometimes over 100) takes of different parts, so I constantly Record->Listen->Record->Listen...over and over This is my workflow. I am not looking for suggestions on my workflow Just if the FX toggle can be automated.

Some software titles adopted a user manageable license, where you can authorize software online each time you run the program ( by having your licence online), or transfer your licence by attaching it to the Hard Drive or Flashdrive ID and move it back and forth from online to PC, as you see fit. I guess, one of my biggest concerns is not of Cakewalk closing doors, I am optimistic about that. I am mainly concerned if a pushed update will change workflow to undesirable direction, there is no "going back a version" mechanism. I am only a human, it is nearly impossible to predict where Cakewalk is going, but I wonder, what percentage of current users would pay to have a permanent, non expiring licence of current version? Perhaps Bandlab can develop a cool plugin, that they would sell... and as a bonus will include unlocked offline version of Cakewalk, that will share same licence as plugin

John, Yes, I do get this is one "solution", but can this FX toggle be automated? I do not want to go to boring details, but it is about a specific tracking workflow. martsave martin s, I believe Scook or Noel mentioned (if I understood correctly) that you can not bypass FX engine by disabling FX bin, or particular FX at the track or bus., only magical FX toggle button on top will truly bypass FX load, it is not selective.... That was my understanding on how it works.

martsave martin s, Yes, I have FX on master bus and some of the individual tracks. ---- azslow3, Yes, recording "dry" with FX engine off...records correctly. I mainly use Fabfilter plugins. They do have "look ahead" and most likely other items that probably screws up timing... I do not know. Going through all instances, turning features on/off constantly besides their main task is way too time consuming. Some plugins (I believe Izotope) have cross reference controls that would control some plugin features in multiple instances through one place. I suggested a feature to F.Filter team to have a control "junction" for all FF plugins used in single project that would control latency. Low, Medium, High. A rep came up with this answer:"Thanks for your request. Isn't this what the delay compensation in your DAW is doing?" So here I am I guess, if it can not be corrected by a simple setting in a one (or two) place(s) and to have all those wonderful plugins in multiple instances, the easiest approach would be turn off FX engine for recording and turn it on for playback/mixing. If this is the case, is there a way to automate FX engine to have this behavior? Thank you!

Scook, Martsave martin s, Thank you for replies! I do not have issue with dropouts, "only" latency. Yes, disabling FX engine works, but I thought that PDC would compensate for the plugin delay? I have not experimented with remove DC-offset yet. If there is no way to correct this plugin latency by adjusting common settings (not archiving, bouncing or using less plugins), is it possible to automate FX engine? Off -record / On -playback? Thank you.

Thanks for the reply. Bouncing, as I mentioned is not my preferred workflow. About muted things, to be clear, question was about muted take lanes, not entire track. Assuming I have 30 take lanes in a single track with 25 muted and 5 un-muted. Will those 25 contribute to latency? Thank you.

Hi Folks. Latency question. I must admit upfront, I am VST glutton. Average project: about 10 instrument tracks, couple of midi tracks and about 4 vocal tracks with many (many!) "take lanes" some active, most muted. A dedicated Asio (not wrapper) card: 128 samples / low latency setting.When full backing is ready, I record vocals. Vocal clips, when recorded are not synced correctly, I suspect because of the Plugin latency... at times clips are 1/2 + second off, so I have to move them manually. Do I use PDC of turn off FX engine when recording vocals? Or something else? Also, maybe it is related: does amount of muted take lanes significantly contribute to overall latency, or not? P.S. Sorry, not giving up VSTs or bouncing tracks Thank you in advance!

I was pleasantly surprised that old X1 opened recent project. I switched to Bandlab version in a week, after it came out. I do not regret a bit. I do not plan to use pre 2018 versions, unless there is no other choice. But I still believe it would be reasonable to permanently unlock paid things prior 2018, purely for backup purposes.

Sure. I am a weak player, but before that we need to ask Bakers to add "chess game room" to the forum... otherwise this thread will become longer than it needs to be

Well, seems nobody answered my question about the last program that allowed for completely offline registration, so I will give a partial answer myself. I found my old Sonar X1 DVD(Roland ver), I believe from 2011, which had offline registration, installed it on backup laptop, brought in current project (Oct 2019) and it opened just fine. Enough to pull stems if needed. Unless Bandlab allows for older (2017) paid software to be authorized same way, this will be my "offline" backup of program+projects. I like Cakewalk very much, and just hope that it will never become one of those "monthly subscription only" things. One of the last pieces of puzzle for me that got fixed by Noel and crew was issue were take lanes were recorded on muted take lanes. Cakewalk does 99% of what I need from DAW, all new features and fixes are just "dessert" to me. I do wish there was a mechanism to roll back & backup versions, in case possible "new" feature decides to interfere with workflow.

Craig, the "doomsday" in the topic is a satire....kind of. I back up projects once a month or so to external drive and about once a year to a separate flash drive. Microsoft has a neat program SyncToy. You define internal / external folders and it is a one click operation to backup things. What was the last version of Cakewalk (Sonar) that allowed offline authorization? Thanks.

" but if you are a doomsday theorist" I am far from that I have a few dozen of projects from years back saved as bundles, other things saved as standard Cakewalk files (project folder). I am not too crazy to spend endless hours on conserving things unorthodox way (saving all stems for example) , just looking for the most efficient and fastest way to backup active program and my projects up to date, even if it is tied t to specific machine. It would be logical in my opinion to offer such "backup" option for BandLab, at least for the previous paid "Gibson" versions. P.S. Here is where some of my logic comes from. A few years back I used ipad and and app Cubasis for recording. I made about 20+ tunes with this setup. Later, I decided to go back to Cakewalk way of things. I got rid of ipad, but had a dilemma what to do with all multi track projects. I was never a fan of Cubase (which opens Cubasis files), and spending money on full flagged software just to be able to go into older project was complete nonsense. Well, to bypass headache, I bought cheap Cubase elements or SE for PC... I do not remember exact title,. The point is, it is backed up to USB flash drive and if I need to open a project in some years ahead, I have it all in one place, and it would take me minutes to install program, locate and open specific project.

Ok, a question from a different angle on the topic. What if... I get new HD, install Windows+Cakewalk+my projects on it., turn off computer, take out hard drive. Leave it on a shelf. Assuming hardware part works (comp. + HD) will Cakewalk run in 10 years, or it will try to re-authorize based on time? Thank you.

It is not about me learning "something new" or even about unlikely doomsday scenario.... It is about having a backup of the program that can run all the files from 19 years back till now, so I can put it on shelf and forget about, until a day comes. For example, 2 weeks ago I unearthed a project from 17 years ago, and thankfully it did open just fine, and I was able to keep some parts and re-do others. I just want to have a piece of mind that I would be able to open same files 10-15 years into the bright future.

Still does not answer specific question I asked... C'mon guys and gals, stay focused, it is really not that difficult. 90% was answered by Noel, the last 10% is, will a cloned HD with active Cakewalk will work on same machine clone was made from without server authorization/offline? Thank you.

Stem extraction / conversion are all excellent ideas, however l am a casual user and switching DAWs is not my goal, at least in the next years to come. Just want to know, if a cloned HD version of active Cakewalk would still work, without connecting PC to internet on same machine clone was created.

Ha-ha. Still does not answer my question about cloning HD. Answer it, and then make me laugh until my heart aches., otherwise it is just spaghetti.

ok funny.. sort of. I had a specific question related to cloning HD with active Cakewalk that I hoped somebody would answer... Thank you.

Thank you everyone for the input! Ohh no, I am not losing my sleep over this Just a precaution, to have a backup of everything just in case, including a working Cakewalk DAW. My earliest CWB (bundle files) date to early 2000s. I did open a few earliest things recently, just to check integrity. Some plugins were gone of course, but overall projects were intact. Basically I am looking for a way to backup stuff in a manner that would allow me to open projects, lets say 15-20 years from now regardless of the software changes. (if I live that long of course ) I have a an older i5 Thinkpad that I plan to keep as a backup laptop. One of the ways I was thinking of is cloning HD. My question is this. If I have active installation of Cakewalk on it and clone the drive...and then swap cloned one (on same computer), will Cakewalk still work, without server authorization? I know some software authorizes to specific hardware ID and if hardware changes (hard drive in my case), software loses authorization. Thank you.