Gary Shore

Just found this thread by accident while looking for info about something else and really glad I did...

Much thx to msmcleod for posting the mini-tutorial above as well as to CJ for the info about Gain and Track Fader Volume...

Just finished watching this and as is my usual routine when finding any tutorials I think are especially interesting for my overall understanding of things,set up a timestamps sheet identifying which aspects of the topic under review are discussed when,along with my notes about it...

Figured I'd post this here and make it available as a kind of companion piece/Cliff notes study guide to use while checking out the tutorial itself,intended for for people like myself new to the DAW who want to see everything broken down and explained in clearly understandable/easily internalizable form so using it goes from being something that requires stopping to check various info sources every few minutes to a second-nature process where focusing on the material being worked on and the intended results replaces this. ...Have spent a lot of time checking out many of the tutorials available online,I think these(SWA Complete Sonar X2) are among the best for achieving this...

 

Since I've done this detailed timestamps process for a lot of other similarly excellent tutorials and intend to continue posting them here as time permits,I'd appreciate any feedback about the method used,whether it's understandable as is or whether changes could be made that would allow for a better understanding of things being shown in the tutorial......

The abbreviations used here are-

TM=Transient Marker

SN=snare

KD=kick drum

OH=overheads

Audio TR=audio transients

ASP=AudioSnapPalette

TR=time ruler

DR TR=drum track

M + L M = merge and lock markers

CTM TR = Clip tempo map time ruler

> is used in sections where a step-by-step process is shown to indicate consecutive steps

360 is used to mean "this relates to..." or "across the board"depending on the context

 

1:05 Splitting clip to align bass/kick

Select both clips>CONTROL-enable Audio Tr for both(360 w/using floating HUD to do this shown)

 

 LANDMARK menu on SNAP to GRID set to Markers + Transients

 

1:31 Dragging indiv TM(turn yellow)and stretching audio on bass track to line it up w/kick track just above it 

 

1:40 Multiple select TM + hold CONTROL/moving one affects all proportionally(i,e,the relationship between them stays the same distancewise)

Multiple select w/out "" and both move same distance as one moved

 

Bounce to clips(360 w/A/B re-artifacts before bounce)

 

2:30-SN/KD/OH 

Aligning tracks so changes made on one will be applied 360-different methods shown

Same proc again w/selecting all tracks/enable Audio TR>ASP

Set threshold @ 0 so all Transients show

3:45 Doubleclick on TM to select it = same TM selected on all tracks>drag/move  one affects all

(360 w/adjusting WINDOW re-this=button in top R corner on ASP>ASP Properties Dialogue)

 

4:23 2nd approach =

Only OH/room mic tracks selected

Disable all TM=

R click Clip>dropdown

(360 w/different one than usual Clip R click dropdown one re-Audio Tr/ASP enabled on clip)

>Select markers @ top>"enabled"from side menu,then R click on TM

>select Disable(TM which were yellow on all selected tracks now show only as yellow diamond shape) 

>Deselect OH etc tracks and select SN/kick

>same approach w/Threshold @ 0 so all TM show(360 w/ using Resolution adj if necessary instead of All)

>w/CONTROL held down,select other 2 tracks again

 

5:10>R click Clip area,same dropdown>MERGE AND LOCK MARKERS

(copies all TM from SN/kick tracks to all 4 tracks)

same process w/drag/move TM on one track moves same TM on all

(DOUBLECLICK on TM on one track selects same TM across all tracks)

 

5:40 QUANTIZATION/options ID'd 360 =

-to existing clip

-to TR

-to MIDI GROOVE file

-groove extracted from existing track(POOL 360)

6:12-to TIMELINE(uses extracted Tempo Map after setting up accurate Clip Tempo Map-this is shown in previous tutorial)

-check all tracks to make sure TM aligned w/Transients

>repeat same process ID'd above to disable all TM on 2 OH tracks

>select SN track,check Clip Tempo Map(360 w/using Average Tempo dropdown @ top on CTM TR)

>filter resolution to 8ths

>Select all DR TR,M+LM

>Open Clip Inspector>Clip Lock off

>ASP Split beats into clips(done so that when Quantization applied,Clips will move instead of audio being stretched)

>Select all

7:57 Quantize Dialogue Box-

Audio Clip start times

Strength @ 85%

Window @ 75 %

ACF 20ms

Max Gap 80ms

 

From what I've seen between 5 and 10 ms.for the fade-in time...don't remember the fade out time suggested... 

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Arranging.62.html

Hey Scook!!

Thx for replying to another post of mine...

Appreciate the heads up and links,will most definitely be checking them out...

I was trying to see if I could use this to show the waveform as a plug-in affected it yesterday(was using the PX-64 on the track which has an EQ module among others)however it only showed the original waveform of the track and adjustments made with the plug-in had no effect on this....assumed that this was due to the routing involved and being new to this stuff would appreciate any suggestions/feedback about how to set this up....

I'm thinking setting up a bus the track 

Read this w/interest as I've been looking at these recently myself...

What I've been doing is extracting the individual FX and working w/the ones that are included, as well as seeing which of the earlier version plug-ins which are  not included have a "stand-in" that is. .for ex.the various saturation options,PX-64(my current go-to across the board),etc....

Have been checking things out online as well and would be interested in any feedback about-

-fxc.available online from other sources(i.e ones people have made themselves that are downloadable)

 

-which currently available plugins are being used by people in CbBL for ones like Channel Tools which( if I"m not mistaken) allowed for both M/S EQ'ng as well as stereo widening....

Very interesting thread,learning a lot reading through it ..

EDT would be interested in finding out where you're at w/things now,a few months down the road. ...

For ex have you gotten to work with Drum Replacer,etc successfully??

On 1/21/2020 at 10:51 AM, David Baay said:

The best approach and exact sequence of steps depends on what you're starting with (i.e. all clips the same length and  at the same, known and fixed tempo, or clips with different lengths and/or variable/unknown tempos). It's hard to give explicit intructions with knowing that. If the tracks were recorded together so they're all nominally in sync with each other, then, yes, I would suggest choosing one track to be the 'master' reference for setting the the project tempo(s). Then enable autostretch on all the clips, and make any changes to the project tempos that you feel are needed. 

If you have the additional situation that the tracks are not already well-synced to begin with - either because they're from different sources or because one or more performances are rushing/dragging

 

 

 

 

 

I posted this section of DB's first reply yesterday so anyone who might want to get into this would have a clear sense of the project in terms of the factors  mentioned ...

These are all audio tracks recorded externally that have had quite a bit of work done on them so they are not only sync'd but have the type of groove I'm looking for as well,in fact I've been looking at where in each of the 3 projects I imported into the DAW I might want to use elements to set up the POOL ...

However there are elements I 'd like to mess with,either sectionally or throughout the track,requiring some of the more detailed processes referred to using ASP/Grid etc ...(this has a lot to do w/my previous thread here from last week that David replied to)...

For ex on the one I spent a few hours on yesterday I think I'll move the hihat placement around a little as it plays the kind of 8ths patterns w/16ths used in the context of an 8th note groove that really glues everything together,it's a focus element of the track and has to be sitting in the pocket so everything else works with it...

W/tracks duplicated in the interest of setting up groups for each instrument,processing each individually (i.e 3 snare tracks,2 bass tracks etc)each project has somewhere between 10-16 and I'm anticipating this increasing as I get more into things. .

Hopefully with this info,understanding what exactly is involved is easier now and could potentially lead to a more specific set of "instructions"  as indicated( in addition to everything else that's already been posted which gives me a clear sense of how proceed across the board...)

 

 

David and Bill-

Have to thank you both for all the info/screenshots...

As usual Cakewalk Discuss Q+ A proves itself a tremendous resource for those of us feeling our way around things we're not entirely sure about....

To be honest I've yet to really study/digest everything that's been posted here since the other day as I was focusing on the info in some of the threads/tutorials I found (as I mentioned above) along w/ one of Karl Rose's great series that abacab posted the link to (#36) which gets into tempo in detail showing the different options available... 

I also posted the same question in the 5 Cakewalk FB groups and got some good info/tips there as well...

Where a few days ago I was in the dark about all this stuff,now I have a sense of what's involved and am trying to slowly internalize everything in the context of just getting starting w/some projects in the DAW and focusing on various other aspects as well(for ex.I just figured out how to use the Markers View to completely identify all the areas I want to focus on in 7-8 min.long tracks,been looking at how the Anderton Kickmaster FX Chain works,etcetc...)

Again much thanks...looking forward to other replies and the thread becoming another of the many invaluable reference threads here on CbBL Discuss that people can use to figure things out....

Appreciate all the replies/info/tips here as I just posted this last night.....

Appreciate all the replies/info/tutorials here as I just posted this yesterday...

 

 

 

Appreciate all the replies/info/tutorials here as I just posted this yesterday...

 

Hey David!!

Really appreciate your continued help over here...

I understand what you"re talking about above and see it echoed in the Facebook forums replies I got when I posted the same question last night....however what's' got me confused here is that in the Reference Guide section starting on page 350 focusing on Tempo,it seems to suggest that just doing what I did produces the intended result without having to get into either of the two options you describe...

 

 

(Note-Since posting this earlier in the week,I've reviewed the section being referred to above in the Ref Guide and realized that ,although the first few paragraphs describe the basic tempo change processes,further down the page the distinction between how this applies to audio-MIDI tracks is clearly made...

Also my confusing Groove Clips as they are created from  a process using Loop Construction View w/Audio Clips etc w/ MIDI Groove Clips in the Browser threw me off as well,new to things and didn't realize what was involved)

 

 

Although I didn't include it in my initial thread yesterday,I did spend some time working with the ASP/Tempo (left hand column) "Set Project from Clip/Clip Follows Project" processes and was able to do what I initially wanted to,which was to have the BPM reflect the actual project tempo instead of the default 120 BPM it showed when I imported the tracks...

However when I tried to use it to change the tempo,the results had things out of sync in addition to the sound quality problems pre-rendering,so I started looking into things and found out where in the Ref Guide this was covered,which led to my eventually posting about things above...

Basically all I want to be able to do here is take something recorded @ a given tempo and move it around a little in either direction in terms of BPM to see where it sits best,then use this new tempo.. for ex. the current project is @ 104:45 BPM,I'd like to move it to around 108....

When I was familiarizing myself w/the DAW,I worked with tempo a little on a single track,stretching it and seeing the results I got,before starting working on this new project which has 8 tracks...Hoping to find an approach that parallels this for the current one ...

I messed around with this in Audacity before getting started with CbBL and saw there that just doing what I did yesterday resulted in an immediate new tempo ..would really like to do as close to this type of thing with CbBL if possible.... 

I tried "Select all" and stretching one yesterday as well but didn't get the results I wanted,not sure if this was because I did some editing on one of the tracks which resulted in split clips/new clips there...remember seeing that although the clip I stretched and most of the others showed 101%,the edited one had 103% or something,but by that time I decided to use Edit/History to get the project back to its original state again as I spent a lot of time prior to importing the tracks making sure they were lined up in terms of their overall sync/groove and didn't want to mess with this.....

Would you recommend using a single track initially to get the tempo adjusted then applying the new tempo across the board rather than trying to set the tempo for the whole project?

The one thing I noticed is that you suggested this yesterday  (see below) ,I had it set to Clips....

I'll  be continuing to work on things a little later on after reviewing a bunch of tutorials about it,as well as some Discuss threads from other people asking about it I found etc..would appreciate your(or anyone else's') continued help getting this skill set together as I'll be working with tempos a lot...

On 1/20/2020 at 10:44 PM, David Baay said:

Set the drop-down next to Clips Follows Project to 'Autostretch'

Wonder if anyone here might be able to point me in the right direction...although the tempo box on the Control Bar registers the tempo I select using the Project>Insert Tempo Change process,there's no change in the tempo itself...similarly using Tempo View,although the right hand column shows a indicated bunch of new tempos,the clip area itself plays at the same tempo with no change...

Usually w/things like this there's something I either have disabled or enabled that's preventing things from happening as they should..being new to this stuff I'm not sure what's up with it..the Lock is off on Clips...didn't see anything else and according to the Ref Guide things should have taken place as usual based on the fact that the tempo BPM #  shows what I've set it to...???

David-

Good to hear from you again,remember you helping me figure out other things I posted about...

Glad to see you mentioned Melodyne as coincidentally I just spent some time studying tutorials about using it after installing it earlier this week in the context of looking into how to convert audio files to MIDI and was able to do it successfully as well as get a sense of what you can do w/the Editor...

A few questions-

After installing it,I got a screen telling me to install the 4.2.4 version, which I did,however apparently Cakewalk is still using the original version installed from the Bandlab Assistant dropdown as I keep getting the same screen each time I open the Editor.....?????

Melodyne Studio which is the 30 day trial version will continue as Melodyne Essentials after the trial ends if I 'm correct.....will this still allow an audio file to be converted to MIDI?Also will the Polyphony Algorithm I used to get a single-line MIDI file made from percussion audio track to display the different instruments on different lines in the Editor be available as well?

I spent some more time w/ASP/Quantization  this AM and am happy to report I was able to get the audio file to Quantize successfully without any of the problems I referred to above...

I focused on using Snap to Grid to set up Transient Markers at regular locations/evenly spaced...disabled all the TM that were between them and even inserted new TM where there was no transient,as well as moving existing ones directly to the Grid.....also set the Clip Tempo Map up directly corresponding to this....

Thinking that the previous phenomena were due to the fact that the audio track had transients that,although they showed up using Threshold/Resolution set to 8ths,were far enough off the Grid that,without what I did this AM(although sounding good in the context of the track after various processes had been applied before importing it into CbBL),Quantizing it led to all kinds of unwanted results as described.....

Since I'm just getting a sense of things w/ASP/Quantize,still very interested in any feedback you or anyone else might have about the things being focused on here......

Thanks for replying ..actually saw this mentioned online prior to posting but it was an older article and wasn't sure it still applied...

Is there anything else involved in doing this or is the audio  now on the Instrument track of the Soft Synth 2 track set-up the same as any other audio track?

Also on a related subject,are any of the files in the Media Browser (Cakewalk Core or any other locations)audio files instead of MIDI?

Appreciate all the previous replies I've gotten from people here when I've posted a question...really helped me figure things out...

 

Probably there's info about this in the Documentation/Ref Guide but figured I'd open it up for feedback here...

 

I have an audio track I've been working on getting a sense of how to use AudioSnap/Quantization with,dealing w/everything involved(Clip tempo Map,Tempo View,Transient Markers etcetc)and applying varous things I've been seeing in tutorials...

This is a  percussion track recorded externally then imported into Cakewalk that already has had Quantization and other ways of setting up the groove applied;just wanted to see how things worked using it...

 

Not getting the results I'm looking for,dealing w/"tempo jumping" /uneven  tempo/measures shortened/weird artifacts relating to stretching the audio etc etc whenever I try to Quantize/Groove Quantize it....

Assuming this is due to my initial approach to things which I'm still getting a sense of,for ex.how adjusting the strength/window/offset in the Quantize Dialogue affects things...

Been checking out the Groove Monkee and other MIDI clips and would like to see if I'd get better results with these since they're set up differently in terms of the timing being exact/no doubt line up directly to the grid etc...

 

Realize I could get into working w/these in the PRV however I have a bunch of other audio files ready to import into Cakewalk which will require similar tweaking w/ASP etc and want to figure things out....

 

Would greatly appreciate a simple walk-through of how I might be able to to convert these type of MIDI clips (which I know how to get  onto a MIDI track from the Browser and work with)to an Audio track/waveform so I could apply the things I'm currently looking at with all the ASP/Quantization aspects  of Cakewalk ....as well as any links to where this info is /tutorials explaining it...

In addition,I would really like to hear from anyone who understands what I'm describing going on with the track I've been getting all these unwanted results with who might know what's behind this .....

The strange thing is that the Tempo View shows only the one tempo used over on the right side at the top of the column,yet playing back the track after Quantization produces the results described above....

 

 

Interested in any tips/feedback about using autocrossfade-time settings in Quantize Dialogue, types of fades etcetc + what these options are about in terms of clip editing...

Interested in any tips/advice about this subject like settings used for the time in the Quantize Dialogue or types of crossfades...

Just wanted to update this in case anyone else comes up against this type of situation and is tearing their hair out trying to figure out what's going on-here's what the problem was(from Documentation page explaining the Groove Clip Inspector Properties)

Note: If this control is not available, the selected clip is most likely an AudioSnap clip. A clip can not have Groove Clip looping and AudioSnap enabled at the same time.-

(I had Audio Snap enabled..)

Thx again to everyone who posted over on my thread asking about ways of setting up a secondary bass track to use w/the original..

I'd appreciate people's input about something else -been watching a tutorial about the Loop Construction View and although I'm able to set it up and load a clip,the dropdown menu options off the controls at the top are all greyed-out instead of looking like they do in the video.. 

The Groove Clip Inspector is similarly blank...thinking there must be some screen I need to go to to set things up....

Other than playing/looping the clip,everything else is  deactivated for some reason....

Are there some setting adjustments I need to make somewhere so the types of things you're supposed to be able to do are enabled?

Thank you for posting this...

Much thanks to everyone who replied to my post about using Jamstix 4 below..

Looking for info/feedback about developing an approach to using the Wah which everyone seems to just briefly mention and kind of skip over in all the tutorials I've found...

I have links to some pages from Documentation,some articles by Craig Anderton from SOS as well as the Online Help guide,but would appreciate hearing from people who've actually used it,spent some time adjusting things and know what's what w/it or finding out about a tutorial where it's shown in action the way people show working w/the settings of all the the other included FX..

Have a lot of tracks where I'll be using it w/the electric piano and right now just been setting them up using the built-in Wah DSP's  in my keyboard workstation away from the DAW,since these  all have the type of settings that allow you to adjust the rate/depth etc but not approximate the open/close effect of using a pedal(wondering if I might be able to do this using the sustain pedal??)I'm thinking that I'll record them straight into the DAW w/out the DSP and use the Sonitus Wah to set things up;looking for a certain type of funk comping style effect where the Wah only functions to add to the initial percussive attack and the chord can be sustained after that without the oscillation continuing (which my DSP's don't allow for...)

If you've used the Sonitus Wah enough to have an understanding of which of the 3 main types I should look into using to get this specific effect I'd be interested in any tips here..

Again much thx to people for continue to post here and keep this thread active...hopefully it will add to this forums' usage as an invaluable source of info....

DB appreciate you taking the time to break things down;still developing a sense of what's what re-overall DAW/in the box recording -production approach...

See you know your stuff from your posts and would like to be able to contact you directly here by email as things come up while I get into using the DAW on a regular basis....

FGV-are you talking about setting up a MIDI track using a MIDI-triggering keyboard etc while listening to the audio track playback?

Although the replies here are all on target and have most definitely contributed to my getting an understanding of things as regards the thread title, some things were raised by various replies that haven't yet been addressed... if any of you who posted here( or anyone else)want to look over my comments following these posts,you'll see these...would be interested in knowing more about people's experience re-

-360 ° w/using Drum Replacer

-actual options for bass sample replacement /augmentation included

(i. e. SI bass/TTS-1 etc)

For ex U905133 -would  like to find out more about your approach to this stuff...

Thx for posting but not sure what you're referring to processwise...??