Will.

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

Given it was documented, this behavior was clearly not a bug, 

Even with it being documented - it was the case back then. It had a BUG. I remember reporting this in the old forum where it would grab a pan knob (if it was the last step) before wanting to do the "quick group." It caused a lot of unwanted tweaks, because the last step that was done were still locked in on the previous worked on track or tweaked macro (with that open bracket four corner shape thing.) I believe it is still being used today in CbB, but its unlinked to any mouse movement and key press. So, with that i'll stand firm on this by saying it was in fact a bug even if it was intended to work that way, documented or not. 

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

Sorry, but I have to ask: How can a reason be both unkown and known to be stupid? 😜

Dont know, it's the OP's statement. 

By the way: You make it sound like, I said it, by quoting that BS with my name to it. 😜😐🧐 Not cool!

My topic on reset all gain to unity like with the faders and this thread are two widely different topics. Dont be an a**!

11 hours ago, criticsconfession said:

.mQuick example: in Sonar when I'm looking at the mixer and ctrl+click and drag a fader down, it adjusts all faders at the same time. In Cakewalk though, ctrl+clicking does absolutely nothing to a fader unless you have all of the faders selected. Wasn't the entire original point of being able to ctrl+click a fader to avoid having to select them all in the first place?

Well, this was annoying and broken in SPLAT which created a lot of issues for many. 

Now, it works perfectly as it was intented to work in sonar, but never got to be fixed. Like the above member said: It is now a fully working quick group function that are multi-functioned with sweet benefits to it. 

11 hours ago, criticsconfession said:

But in Bandlab for some stupid and unknown reason, you can only select viewing one at a time by highlighting it in the bottom left corner. Who thought this was a good idea and needed to be changed?

Not a stupid idea at all. If you had spend more time trying to figure this out, you wouldve noticed the ability are still there for a multi view pane. It just make more sense to have a single pane view anyway. 

Bandlab caters for all. Making workflow more streamline. Thousands of bugs that sonar had (like those you've mentioned) were fixed by Bandlab developers who happens to be the old team of Sonar anyway. 

Wait-What?! Would you look at that, who would have known? 

With me, its the plugins.

Inserting an effect in a project that was created in the previous update build takes 5 seconds longer. Not sure why, but its not a deal breaker. The client chose that track and she recorded on it. Hooked my laptop up at the label she's signed to and worked with it like that. This was three weeks ago back in Holland. 

What you need to check for in your situation are your plugin oversampling size settings if you're using any. It causes latency which sounds like what you're experiencing. My experience taught me when ever that happens, I need to isolate and locate the issue. Normally I do this by going through every plugin I have on insert and bypass them one-by-one. 

When the culprit plugin are located, I normally just replace it with another of the same processing. 

This happens outside of CbB too. I run Mac in my studio and this happens in Logic and Pro tools too. 

Its a per project issue. It works fine in one project and in the next one - it creates latency. 

4 hours ago, Michael Vogel (MUDGEL) said:

 Could it be that Windows is showing the last full build 

You are correct.

What we're basically installing today are just the core updates on the original DAW. I believe this is a way for the developers to track what was worked on and what still needs to be fixed from where the previous company stopped with their developments. 

Lol! I give up! 

11 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

I hope I made myself understood.

It was clear in the OP. 

11 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

 COPY the imported video in its original state into a project folder, not being "loose".

Keep saying the same thing. 

16 hours ago, Will. said:

Making copies would be ridiculous time consuming taking us back to windows 2000/XP saving speeds, plus a waste of unnecessary space on the drive. There's lots of reasons why these Video editors and Daws dont do it. It just doesn't make sense.

I keep repeating the reason. 

But, because you're a great guy and an active member on the forum (unlike me 😐) I will repeat this again. 

Question: 

How long does it normally take your system to load an unmixed 16 channel project without buses or aux tracks in it, because 10 seconds feels already too long for me to wait for just audio tracks to load. If that same project still have its instrument audio tracks as VSTi in it -it takes close to 20 seconds to load (depending on the size of the instruments of course.)

I've timed a 32 channel project load with its instruments and aux tracks that took 1m8s (00:01:08) to load. Way-too-Long. 

The second scenario: A 25 min audio for an episode that crashed the DAW twice in the middle of the export. I had to do a live bounce which took 25 mins. The previous episodes took close to 5mins to export - which in itself is too long. 

So in order for CbB to make a "physical copy" which you're proposing and suggesting it should; including a want for it -- would be to take the DAW back 20 years with this approach in its project load and SAVING speeds. The loading and save speeds are the reasons why daws and film editors do not do this. They rather came up with a brilliant idea to have the program make a "memory copy" of it. Hence why the project loads and saved projects are 20 times faster today with video and audio in them today. 

Having the DAW (and video editors programs) to stream the video from its original saved location and path was a brilliant invention and creation with this idea for project load speeds and to save them . This idea first came into creation with Video Programs that does their own audio in their software - such as Sony Vega Pro. DAW creators then tooks this brilliant idea and implemented it in their brands too. 

So, having the DAW to stream the video from its original path by creating a "memory copy" of the file is a more streamline approach towards workflows and PROJECT SPEEDS.

And if this isnt clear enough for you, then I dont know what would be Milton. 

I'm looking into smaller monitor resolutions. I just hooked up a copy of Cakewalk in the main Studio from my laptop and at 28 inch 4k - Yikes! Pretty sure i'll be wearing glasses running it like this. Also, because PT and Logic too have their downsides on it. 

Anyone here running Cake on: 

 24/27inch 2560x1440 

or . . . 

23/24 inch 1920 x 1080

Pictures of the console view would be appreciated. 

Thanks in advance. ☺

1 hour ago, Milton Sica said:

I didn't mention saving the video inside the project, but in a specific folder that could be called VIDEO, when there is a video imported to the DAW.

It seems to me that this should be completely transparent even for the DAW to preserve the integrity of the project.

It does so with audios, Melodyne files, exported files.

Why not do it also for the video that was imported when projected.

Better than leaving it linked in a "lost" folder or at least asking the user when importing a video if they want to save it to the project folder.

I think it would be a lot smarter and integrity for the project.

 

As in the picture ????

 

 

 

As mentioned before without trying to argue this, theres literally just a handful of software that does this and if you think about it - it really doesnt make sense to make a copy of a video file the is already saved on your computer - otherwise every Film Video Editor would have done this, but they dont. Think of file size. (Im repeating myself.) 

Secondly: Music apps is literally just designed to be as its abbreviation calls them - Digital Audio Workstation. Not D.A.V.W or D.V.A.W (with respect.) 

Lastly: Have you looked at every Audio File Folders in your saved projects? For every tweak you make - it save multiple copies of the same file you've worked on. It will have to do the same for the Video file. Imagine all that copies of your (minimum) 5GB video file size. What do you think will happen if you have a 70GB video file | or | your 90min video file? Making copies would be ridiculous time consuming taking us back to windows 2000/XP saving speeds, plus a waste of unnecessary space on the drive. There's lots of reasons why these Video editors and Daws dont do it. It just doesn't make sense.

Im not trying to rain on your parade here. There's just a lot of factors that comes in to play that prevent this. 

I'm a member just like you.

My picture size are about the same as yours, but I normally just take a screenshot of the picture I had taken, if I want to upload one, which comes out less than 1MB every time. ☺

Heads up:

In case you want to upload a video next time - it should not exceed 4.88MB. 😂

Please create one thread when you post multiple stuff next-time. 

Thanks. ☺

4 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

With these findings you don't agree that this is a DAW BUG

Nope.

There are literally just a handful of software in world of programs that actually save the video as a copy within the saved file.

Again: a handful software only. 

Not even the film industries most popular high graphics video editors does this - for reasons such as file size issues and all the other complications that comes with it. 

Did you scan for it? Also make sure you have it installer to the correct folder.

Program files/common files/vst3 

If you do not have the Vst3 installed, look under Program files/VstPlugin folder. 

29 minutes ago, David Baay said:

 Bounce to Clip(s) 

Ah!!! I've re-read the OP.

Both should work though. I've done it before. 

1 hour ago, Mr. Torture said:

I will try it again tonight and see if I can replicate it, take some screen shots.

Normally you want to go to SOURCE CATEGORY (What to Bounce TAB) and choose TRACKS within the Bounce Window to make all the available tracks appear and select the desired one to bounce. 

6 hours ago, Notableee said:

 

 

You have to tick both boxes for the Lexicon Mac in the INPUTS and Outputs window seen on this pic here. 

1 hour ago, charles kasler said:

I'm trying to bounce just the midi drums to another track but the bass gets added to it. I have the drums soloed, the bass muted. It shouldn't matter if I select tracks or whole mix in the bounce window that opens? What am I doing wrong? thanks!

Locate the tilde key on your computer keyboard (its the button above the TAB) and bounce the desired files to track.   

57 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

There's several lessons on this thread for all of us. Useful stuff.

Glad it's helpful. ☺

18 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

if i flip mono-stereo setting on either the main or aux, there is no change in terms of polarity null testing. the patch point is stereo at all times and doesn't have any processing on it. so if i set the main to mono (+3db from a stereo source file) it just transfers through the PP.  selecting a L-R-S from the PP is effectively the same because the source is mono. setting aux to mono, main to stereo, same dealio - the PP is stereo, doesn't care, and there is no summing, so no changes. 

=   ->  =  ->  -

=   ->  =  ->  =

m       pp       a

-  ->  =  ->  =

-  ->  =  ->  -

only time i get not-null is panning which does shift the relationship (hence the reason i originally mentioned panning)

You're not with us. Doesnt matter though - I have found out what I needed to know reading 3 other DAWs (including Cakewalks) documentations on the original subject of this thread. 

6 minutes ago, David Baay said:

I'm having a hard time following all the different scenarios you've posed and understanding what your expectation is in each case so I'll just say this:

By my count there are 4096 combinations of the following variables (not including side-chaining). No human on the planet is going to be able to keep in mind which of these combinations will produce nulling source and aux tracks. My advice is just to be aware of all these variables and experiment in the moment to get the desired result in a given situation. And maybe make yourself a 'cheat sheet' for specific scenarios you find yourself using repeatedly.

- Source Input (m/s clip w/ or w/o Input Echo, m/s live input, m/s synth)

- Aux Input (l/r or s from the Patch Point)

- Source Interleave

- Aux Interleave

- Centered or Panned Source

- Send Pan Follows Track Pan

- Grouped or Centered Aux Pan

- Mono/Stereo FX on the source track

- Mono/Stereo FX on the Aux track

- 0dB or Non-Zero Center Pan Law 

 

You made it complicated for yourself. So i'll just say this: No one spoke of panning, but you. I just followed the discussion. This thread is about send inputs - PERIOD. 

But I hear you. I just happened to be working in a physical analogue world and running the same inputs and inserts as what i usually do in the DAW sound different. A lot was exposed. Tried these in another DAW and it was pleasing. Came to cakewalk and with that analogue mind i had noticed a few things CbB does not handle as I thought it had. 

Then there's the Null issue . . . well the video I had attached don't lie. Literally with just my home PC in my "study/home-office" and old Interface connected to it and 4 inch monitors. No other gear connected. In the studio I run Mac so, I don't use CbB there anymore. I'll just come sit here and come up with | and | to write new demo songs. I still love creating magic with CbB and to dive a little deeper in its core. That being said: You start to notice little things different working in other environments. With some DAWS closely mimicking analogue workflows and others hybrid leaving some strictly digital. So understanding the routing of multiple environments - like I've mentioned just now - helps with creativity in multiple routing scenarios in all genres.

Like you've mentioned: understanding Pan Law and Pan Rules.   

7 hours ago, msmcleod said:

An Aux track is simply an audio track that has a patch point as its input.

You can prove this by creating a patch point and audio track separately, and then setting the input of the audio track to the patch point:

One thing you might have noticed...  both the send to the patch point in your audio track,  and the input of the Aux track list the Patch Point Left, Right & Stereo.

So to create mono aux track, you just make sure you're sending to Left from the Audio track,  and have the input set to Left on your Aux track.

You can also send (or have the track output) to one side of an Aux track, but have the Aux track stereo.... this can be useful if you're using an external insert with two separate mono external effects.

So for example:

Guitar Track ->  Aux 1 Track Left
Bass Track -> Aux 1 Track Right
Aux 1 with External Insert in FX bin, outputting to a new stereo patch point (let's call it Patch Point 2)

Now creating two audio tracks sourced from Patch Point 2 L/R, gives us the signal after the external effects.

Patch Point 2 Left -> Guitar Aux Post EFX 
Patch Point 2 Right -> Bass Aux Post EFX
 

Appreciate the feedback, but i'm not talking about how to create a Aux or setting up a patch point. 

The question is why dont the input change to mono? 

Heres what i'm talking about. 

1: Insert TTS-1.

2: Choose the Stereo Piano preset. 

3: Create and Audio Track. 

4: Go to the Audio tracks Input, Cakewalk TTS-1 and choose the output 1 L and solo the track. Flip between L and S. 

Now the question is: why doesnt the input do this with the effects? 

Do the top steps with two mono tracks. Snare and a long Bass Note. Route the Bass Track to an Aux track. Create the Haas effect, insert a compressor and sidechain the snare to the compressor tweak the compressor to taste or aggressively if you cant hear the effect that well. Lastly put the send of the snare in Pre and -INF out its dB. Can you hear the ducking down the middle? I didn't get the mono bleed down the middle outside CbB with a console - its strictly "haas'd," because of having the option to sent the sends  individually. Though to be fair, I don't know the studio's full setup, so there might be routing patches that are different to what I know.  

I'm not arguing things. The knowledge gaining from this might help another (especially newbies) to understand what happens under the hood to make better decision throughout their workflow. 

3 hours ago, David Baay said:

"The Mono/Stereo button  in each track forces the track’s audio signal to enter any patched plug-ins as either mono or stereo, whether or not the tracks are mono or stereo. This allows you to use either mono effects on a stereo track or stereo effects on a mono track.

Not to argue here, but im well aware of how this works. Not the the point of the subject. 

3 hours ago, David Baay said:

"Mono audio clips may be increased by 3 dB in certain scenarios

There are some situations where the level of a mono clip will be increased by 3 dB if the track's output interleave (mono/stereo toggle) is set to mono:

Now you're on the right path on the subject. Hence to why I had asked the initial question.

On 8/27/2022 at 2:31 AM, Will. said:

Am I correct to assume that Cakewalks Audio, Aux and bus tracks are duplicates of one (the same) Audio Track within itself? 

This is why I've asked this. So, and basically (again) is just two Audio Tracks in one track called an "Aux" and when setting the interleave to Mono it collapses the two, by placing one (either L or R channel) on top of the other? Meaning if you have just the slightest bleed into the right channel - that information will be added to your collapsed mono track? 

Then there's the input subject. My experience with an outboard insert patching board - this works straightforwardly. When patching a mono insert to a bus you get a clean (no boost in dB) mono input into an Aux on an outboard mixing console. Meaning: If I had a drum snare that was recorded on the left channel, the Left channel would be sent to the Aux Patch and be panned centered giving you a clean one-channel mono insert on an aux.  

In other words (please correct me if I'm wrong) with Cakewalk's pan law set at -3dB with the L-R channels collapsed (and when centered there's a -3dB volume different to balance things) it splits the two channels of one audio track (the duplicated audio track that creates the stereo output) internally and places its left channel down the center bringing the level back to 0dB (unity) causing the second channel (right channel) to sit on top down the center which then creates that +3dB boost? 

28 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

 send inputs seems to be working 

So, your inputs go from stereo to mono and vice-versa?

This shouldnt only apply to changing the pan law every time in preferences. This should work perfectly in 0 centred pan law as well, when ever you match your levels.

No so? 

Lol! Either way  . . . This thread is not about "panning" its about the send inputs. 

1 minute ago, David Baay said:

Did a quick test. Works as expected if Pan Law is -3dB Center which is often needed when going back and forth between mono and stereo.

I even did that too. It doesnt work here. Tried every available pan law. The audio is audible, but barely. 

5 minutes ago, David Baay said:

But I don't see how that relates to the independence of Patch Points and Aux Tracks. 

Because the send does not create the input as it should its rather linked to the interleave and not the input. Whereby the interleave in the Input shouldve been linked?

No? 😕 Am I incorrect?